Giles to Duke.

[Brooky03]

You're right, it goes both ways, but the majority of top 5 guys that come into college ball do really really well and are an asset to whatever team they play on. They're far more a sure thing than the rest of the pool.

A top 5 recruit is not more of a sure thing than a returning upperclassmen who's been productive in your system. i.e. Ben Simmons is not more of a sure thing than Mike Gbinije.

 

[two3zone]

A top 5 recruit is not more of a sure thing than a returning upperclassmen who's been productive in your system. i.e. Ben Simmons is not more of a sure thing than Mike Gbinije.

Last 4 guys that were the #1 guy out of HS.

Okafor
Wiggins
Noel
Davis

Whomever is picking the #1 guy out of high school has done a pretty good job, I'd take Simmons of G (who I'm a big fan of) every day of the week.

 

[orangefan13]

Its not that hard to pick them when they play against each other in multiple all star games :noidea:
I remember how far behind they were on Kyrie Irving I think they had him 9th and he ended up mcd mvp.

 

[Brooky03]

ESPN Top 10 Recruits last year:

1) Jahlil Okafor - 17 ppg, 8.5 rpg - Great season
2) Myles Turner - 10 ppg, 6.5 rpg - Average season
3) Cliff Alexander - 7 ppg, 5 rpg - Mediocre season
4) Tyus Jones - 12 ppg, 5.5 apg - Good season
5) Mudiay - Doesn't count
6) Trey Lyles - 9 ppg, 5 rpg - Good season (limited by platoon system I think)
7) Stanley Johnson - 14 ppg, 6.5 rpg - Good-Great season
8) Justin Jackson - 11 ppg, 4 rpg - Average season
9) Karl-Anthony Towns - 10 ppg, 7 rpg - Great season (limited by platoon system)
10) Kelley Oubre [in place of Theo Pinson who sucked] - 9 ppg, 5 rpg - Mediocre-Average season

I know there are other stats to take into consideration than the ones above, which I took into consideration, but it looks like you can expect an average-good player out of your OAD recruit and hope you get the one or two potential world-beaters who perform at a level similar to the very very best upperclassmen.

 

[orangefan13]

Gbinije is going to be better then all of the above outside maybe Okafor.

 

[pearl31]

Despite dook's class next year our team will go toe to toe with them. We're gonna gonna be really good.

 

[two3zone]

Despite dook's class next year our team will go toe to toe with them. We're gonna gonna be really good.

I agree. Think we'll have one of the best zones we've seen which is saying a lot. Next year is going to be fun. Not taking anything away from this year but the guys we have coming in are extremely nice and that length at the 5. Wow

 

[Cusefan0307]

ESPN Top 10 Recruits last year:

1) Jahlil Okafor - 17 ppg, 8.5 rpg - Great season
2) Myles Turner - 10 ppg, 6.5 rpg - Average season
3) Cliff Alexander - 7 ppg, 5 rpg - Mediocre season
4) Tyus Jones - 12 ppg, 5.5 apg - Good season
5) Mudiay - Doesn't count
6) Trey Lyles - 9 ppg, 5 rpg - Good season (limited by platoon system I think)
7) Stanley Johnson - 14 ppg, 6.5 rpg - Good-Great season
8) Justin Jackson - 11 ppg, 4 rpg - Average season
9) Karl-Anthony Towns - 10 ppg, 7 rpg - Great season (limited by platoon system)
10) Kelley Oubre [in place of Theo Pinson who sucked] - 9 ppg, 5 rpg - Mediocre-Average season

I know there are other stats to take into consideration than the ones above, which I took into consideration, but it looks like you can expect an average-good player out of your OAD recruit and hope you get the one or two potential world-beaters who perform at a level similar to the very very best upperclassmen.

I really don't get the rankings, and never will. I think ESPN's are weaker comparable to the other scouting services. Are rankings based on expected college production or expected NBA production? For instance, Lydon was ranked like 80th this year, but all the NBA guys have him as our best NBA prospect. Why such the difference in projections?

I do agree the top five guys give you an immediate shot to be good, but you still find very few Durants or Melo's. Okafor was good, but he wasn't transcendent. Even Wiggins and Parker weren't transcendent two years ago.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Right, because the old BE was a cake walk.

No, but it was OUR conference. We were the preeminent team in the conference. The conference represented our own geographical region. We recruited better than any other team in our conference. We had RECORDS in that conference.

None of those things are true now.

None of this means we can't win a NC. When we won with Carmelo, we weren't better than Uconn... Point is, we are not one of the top 3 teams in the league, as we were when it was us, Uconn, and Georgetown. I'm not seeing what's going to change that. We have an old Dome, which will continue to decline in recruiting 'impact,' we have sanctions and the stink of this sanctions, and we have coaching turnover. We are now in a space where getting one top 25 kid per year isn't going to match up with teams getting multiple top 15 guys, plus Louisville, plus UVA who seemingly grow oak-thick, smart seniors who just know how to win... Realistically, what is our station? It's not what it used to be. Doesn't mean I don't like our kids, but objectivity tells me we aren't on the same 'talent' level.

My memory isn't great, so maybe someone else can tell me — has any team moved into a traditional powerhouse conference and then become the class of that conference?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Louisville did all right in the Big East.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No, but it was OUR conference. We were the preeminent team in the conference. The conference represented our own geographical region. We recruited better than any other team in our conference. We had RECORDS in that conference.

None of those things are true now.

None of this means we can't win a NC. When we won with Carmelo, we weren't better than Uconn... Point is, we are not one of the top 3 teams in the league, as we were when it was us, Uconn, and Georgetown. I'm not seeing what's going to change that. We have an old Dome, which will continue to decline in recruiting 'impact,' we have sanctions and the stink of this sanctions, and we have coaching turnover. We are now in a space where getting one top 25 kid per year isn't going to match up with teams getting multiple top 15 guys, plus Louisville, plus UVA who seemingly grow oak-thick, smart seniors who just know how to win... Realistically, what is our station? It's not what it used to be. Doesn't mean I don't like our kids, but objectivity tells me we aren't on the same 'talent' level.

My memory isn't great, so maybe someone else can tell me — has any team moved into a traditional powerhouse conference and then become the class of that conference?

We had one below average year. We still get top ten recruiting classes every year.we just finished 2nd in the ACC two years ago.

UNC and Louisville have their own issues. They just haven't faced the music yet.

Also the dome is going to get renovated. Patience man, let's see how this year turns out during the season and on the recruiting trail before you say the sky is falling.

 

[orange79]

No, but it was OUR conference. We were the preeminent team in the conference. The conference represented our own geographical region. We recruited better than any other team in our conference. We had RECORDS in that conference.

None of those things are true now.

None of this means we can't win a NC. When we won with Carmelo, we weren't better than Uconn... Point is, we are not one of the top 3 teams in the league, as we were when it was us, Uconn, and Georgetown. I'm not seeing what's going to change that. We have an old Dome, which will continue to decline in recruiting 'impact,' we have sanctions and the stink of this sanctions, and we have coaching turnover. We are now in a space where getting one top 25 kid per year isn't going to match up with teams getting multiple top 15 guys, plus Louisville, plus UVA who seemingly grow oak-thick, smart seniors who just know how to win... Realistically, what is our station? It's not what it used to be. Doesn't mean I don't like our kids, but objectivity tells me we aren't on the same 'talent' level.

My memory isn't great, so maybe someone else can tell me — has any team moved into a traditional powerhouse conference and then become the class of that conference?

Our future as an athletic department is now secure. It never was in the BE. Ever. I would never go back. If you would, that's fine. But things would have headed down hill quickly had we not moved to the ACC. Frankly, I don't care if it's 'OUR' conference. All I know is that we belong to a conference that will be around. I'm not sure we can say that for the AAC.

 

[OrangeDW]

No, but it was OUR conference. We were the preeminent team in the conference. The conference represented our own geographical region. We recruited better than any other team in our conference. We had RECORDS in that conference.

None of those things are true now.

None of this means we can't win a NC. When we won with Carmelo, we weren't better than Uconn... Point is, we are not one of the top 3 teams in the league, as we were when it was us, Uconn, and Georgetown. I'm not seeing what's going to change that. We have an old Dome, which will continue to decline in recruiting 'impact,' we have sanctions and the stink of this sanctions, and we have coaching turnover. We are now in a space where getting one top 25 kid per year isn't going to match up with teams getting multiple top 15 guys, plus Louisville, plus UVA who seemingly grow oak-thick, smart seniors who just know how to win... Realistically, what is our station? It's not what it used to be. Doesn't mean I don't like our kids, but objectivity tells me we aren't on the same 'talent' level.

My memory isn't great, so maybe someone else can tell me — has any team moved into a traditional powerhouse conference and then become the class of that conference?

First...how many traditional powerhouses have changed leagues? All this conference movement is a pretty new thing. Louisville came into the Big East, and were one of the best programs their entire time there.

Let's not forget that we started 25-0 and were 12-0 in conference play in our first year in the ACC. I think we'll be fine...we had a semi-whiff of a class(I like Roberson but he wasn't as good early on as advertised and he's the only one left) and some early entries that hurt us. For example, absolutely nobody projected Ennis to be one and done until around the time he made the half court shot. If we had him last year, we're a 25 win team that wins 12-13 ACC games. We're still recruiting well despite the sanctions.

Duke's recruiting is in another stratosphere right now(it's them and Kentucky who are way above everyone else), but other than that we'll be right there with anyone going forward in the next few years. I think Louisville and UNC will both be better than us in certain years, and we'll be better than them in certain years...Virginia should continue to be tough while Bennett is there, but I think we will get to where we'll out-talent them at times in the coming years.

It's a difficult league but it's not tougher than the Big East was after Louisville, Marquette, and Cincinatti joined, when Villanova was at an all time high, UConn, Georgetown, ND, Pitt, etc were all good-very good. We had a little dip for a few years there too(due to an overrated 2004 class and complete whiff of a 2005 class), but we came back and won the league a couple times(2010, 2012) while playing in an absolutely brutal league.

 

[OrangeDW]

We had one below average year. We still get top ten recruiting classes every year.we just finished 2nd in the ACC two years ago.

UNC and Louisville have their own issues. They just haven't faced the music yet.

Also the dome is going to get renovated. Patience man, let's see how this year turns out during the season and on the recruiting trail before you say the sky is falling.

Cameron Indoor is a relic, and the Smith Center was built in the mid 80's. It's only a few years newer than the Dome. We've got the state of the art Melo Center. The Dome still fits the most people, which was always it's draw to recruits(just like Cameron Indoor's atmosphere is the draw, not how nice it is). I'm not seeing the problem in facilities.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

We had one below average year. We still get top ten recruiting classes every year.we just finished 2nd in the ACC two years ago.

UNC and Louisville have their own issues. They just haven't faced the music yet.

Also the dome is going to get renovated. Patience man, let's see how this year turns out during the season and on the recruiting trail before you say the sky is falling.

Didn't say the sky was falling. Just that the future won't be as kind as the past, and the new conference will be a negative factor. Over the long haul, not the first few years. Also, that "top ten" classes aren't enough. In the BE, it would never be a surprise for us to be picked to win the conference. In the acc, I don't foresee that happening much, if ever. There will be ups and downs, but where we once were the class of the league, we are decidedly on a second tier now, recruiting-wise.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

First...how many traditional powerhouses have changed leagues? All this conference movement is a pretty new thing. Louisville came into the Big East, and were one of the best programs their entire time there.

Let's not forget that we started 25-0 and were 12-0 in conference play in our first year in the ACC. I think we'll be fine...we had a semi-whiff of a class(I like Roberson but he wasn't as good early on as advertised and he's the only one left) and some early entries that hurt us. For example, absolutely nobody projected Ennis to be one and done until around the time he made the half court shot. If we had him last year, we're a 25 win team that wins 12-13 ACC games. We're still recruiting well despite the sanctions.

Duke's recruiting is in another stratosphere right now(it's them and Kentucky who are way above everyone else), but other than that we'll be right there with anyone going forward in the next few years. I think Louisville and UNC will both be better than us in certain years, and we'll be better than them in certain years...Virginia should continue to be tough while Bennett is there, but I think we will get to where we'll out-talent them at times in the coming years.

It's a difficult league but it's not tougher than the Big East was after Louisville, Marquette, and Cincinatti joined, when Villanova was at an all time high, UConn, Georgetown, ND, Pitt, etc were all good-very good. We had a little dip for a few years there too(due to an overrated 2004 class and complete whiff of a 2005 class), but we came back and won the league a couple times(2010, 2012) while playing in an absolutely brutal league.

E question wasn't limited to powerhouses moving conferences. It was any team moving to a powerhouse conference. Louisville is one good example, but we can use them as a team that did well in the BE, and then extend that to the ACC to illustrate the same issues we are going to have. They won't become as dominant in the acc as they were in the BE.

And my comments were in no way meant to suggest that we had any choice in the move.

Dismiss 25-0 in the first year. I'm talking a long term, cumulative effect.

Dismiss, also, the IF scenarios. If Ennis hadn't left early? He did. We play the games with the players who are with us. Everyone else has early defectors, as well. And better recruiting means we would have had a better replacement for Ennis. Not. Saying our recruiting isn't good. It just isn't elite, and we are now in a conference where elite is a norm.

 

[HOFCeluck]

E question wasn't limited to powerhouses moving conferences. It was any team moving to a powerhouse conference. Louisville is one good example, but we can use them as a team that did well in the BE, and then extend that to the ACC to illustrate the same issues we are going to have. They won't become as dominant in the acc as they were in the BE.

And my comments were in no way meant to suggest that we had any choice in the move.

Dismiss 25-0 in the first year. I'm talking a long term, cumulative effect.

Dismiss, also, the IF scenarios. If Ennis hadn't left early? He did. We play the games with the players who are with us. Everyone else has early defectors, as well. And better recruiting means we would have had a better replacement for Ennis. Not. Saying our recruiting isn't good. It just isn't elite, and we are now in a conference where elite is a norm.

There is precisely one program in the ACC that's recruiting at a level decidedly higher than us.

And if you dismiss 2013-14, you also would have to dismiss 2014-15...and I'm fairly confident this post wouldn't exist if not for this past season.

 

[OrangeDW]

E question wasn't limited to powerhouses moving conferences. It was any team moving to a powerhouse conference. Louisville is one good example, but we can use them as a team that did well in the BE, and then extend that to the ACC to illustrate the same issues we are going to have. They won't become as dominant in the acc as they were in the BE.

And my comments were in no way meant to suggest that we had any choice in the move.

Dismiss 25-0 in the first year. I'm talking a long term, cumulative effect.

Dismiss, also, the IF scenarios. If Ennis hadn't left early? He did. We play the games with the players who are with us. Everyone else has early defectors, as well. And better recruiting means we would have had a better replacement for Ennis. Not. Saying our recruiting isn't good. It just isn't elite, and we are now in a conference where elite is a norm.

The point was the reasons for our current "dip" are no different than the reasons for occasional "dips" we've always had. Was just pointing out the reasons for it. It has nothing to do with what league we're in, no more than the 2006-08 dip did.

Again, Duke is on fire right now. But the league as a whole doesn't recruit any more "elite" than the Big East did.