GMAC getting asked about Red

[EnviroSciGuy]

What tree?

As I said in another thread, JB doesn’t even have a shrub.

I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here and watch poster after poster dump on shrubs.

 

[dasher]

Renarkably thin soup for a 40-year career.

what vet coach has or had a good tree?

 

[rrlbees]

Thanks for that list Rick.

I should have been more clear:

Coaches who succeeded?

some of them have been very successful. not all trees are all successes.

 

[DoctahLexus]

So you’re looking for a list of failed coaches, save Pitino, who would have thrived regardless?

Thanks for supporting my point, however unwittingly.

And remember: this is over 40 years.

40 years.

If the successful coaches in a guys coaching tree "would have thrived regardless" then what is the point in caring about anyone's coaching tree? Boeheim or any coach's job is not to train long time assistant coaches to be good head coaches. Those are very different jobs. His only responsibility is to hire quality assistant coaches. Some elite coaches have good coaching trees and some don't. There is no reason to think any less of the coaches that do not have one.

 

[Newhouser]

what vet coach has or had a good tree?

Dean Smith (in my opinion) has the best since it includes NBA guys like Larry Brown and Doug Moe.

Pitino gets credit for Billy Donovan, Sendek, maybe Tubby and a few others.

That's about all I got.

 

[DilemaCuse]

PSU not being good at basketball is one of college sports true mysteries. They are within close driving distance to the fertile recruiting grounds of NY, Philly, Baltimore and DC. They have limitless resources at their disposal. Obviously they're a football school first, but there's no logical reason they shouldn't be a solid basketball program like say Ohio State or Wisconsin is.

They need a new arena. Their place now might be the dreariest venue in college basketball.

I think they have put resources into wrestling, lax and now mens ice hockey. It is weird based on their location. I think it might have something to do with being in the shadow of the football program.

 

[DilemaCuse]

The JB list provided is longer than I thought, however it does not have many if any viable candidates here in 2026 based on the circumstances of the failed Autry experiment.

 

[RF2044]

What tree?

As I said in another thread, JB doesn’t even have a shrub.

There are definitely some successful branches, but most of them were from a long time ago.

Limited success [at best] from the last 20 years.

 

[RF2044]

Adrian Autry: Syracuse (2023–present)
Scott Hicks: Le Moyne (1992–1997); Albany (1997–2000); Loyola (MD) (2000–2004)
Mike Hopkins: Washington (2017–2024)
Brendan Malone: Rhode Island (1984–1986); Toronto Raptors (1995–1996); Cleveland Cavaliers (2005, interim)
Gerry McNamara: Siena (2024–present)
Wayne Morgan: Long Beach State (1996–2002); Iowa State (2003–2006)
Rob Murphy: Eastern Michigan (2011–2021)
Tim O'Toole: Fairfield (1998–2006)
Louis Orr: Siena (2000–2001); Seton Hall (2001–2006); Bowling Green (2007–2014)
Rick Pitino:[93] Boston University (1978–1983); Providence (1985–1987); New York Knicks (1987–1989); Kentucky (1989–1997); Boston Celtics (1997–2001); Louisville (2001–2017); Iona (2020–2023); St. John's (2023–present)
Stephen Thompson:[94] Cal State Los Angeles (2005–2014)
Tim Welsh: Iona (1995–1998); Providence (1998–2008)
Troy Weaver: Detroit Pistons general manager (2020–present)
Ralph Willard: NY Knicks, Kentucky, Pittsburgh, Louisville

Interesting that several have had more success in the NBA.

Of that group, Pitino is obviously the best.

I would contend that Malone, Weaver, and Willard have been the most successful by a large margin. Maybe Morgan belongs on this list, too. Most of the others didn't do much beyond mid-major.

But for a four-and-a-half decade career, kind of sparse.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The best coaching tree in any sport has to be Bill Walsh. Off of his tree you get the Shanahan tree. I think a lot of coaches fail because they try to be too much like their mentor and not their own man.

 

[RF2044]

The best coaching tree in any sport has to be Bill Walsh. Off of his tree you get the Shanahan tree. I think a lot of coaches fail because they try to be too much like their mentor and not their own man.

Or they are very good contributors to a specific subst of the mentor's system, but not good at the other parts. I think that's what happened with the Belichick tree when he was with the Patriots -- he's had some amazing coordinators, who other teams hire in an attempt to emulate the success of that team. But they struggle to be head coaches themselves, even though they are top flight coordinators. I'm thinking of guys like McDaniel, Crennel, Patricia, etc.

Rock star OC / DCs that are universally respected. But subpar when they get promoted one level higher.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Or they are very good contributors to a specific subst of the mentor's system, but not good at the other parts. I think that's what happened with the Belichick tree when he was with the Patriots -- he's had some amazing coordinators, who other teams hire in an attempt to emulate the success of that team. But they struggle to be head coaches themselves, even though they are top flight coordinators. I'm thinking of guys like McDaniel, Crennel, Patricia, etc.

Rock star OC / DCs that are universally respected. But subpar when they get promoted one level higher.

McDaniel and Patricia come to mind trying to be too much like Belichick and rubbing everyone at their new destination the wrong way.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Or they are very good contributors to a specific subst of the mentor's system, but not good at the other parts. I think that's what happened with the Belichick tree when he was with the Patriots -- he's had some amazing coordinators, who other teams hire in an attempt to emulate the success of that team. But they struggle to be head coaches themselves, even though they are top flight coordinators. I'm thinking of guys like McDaniel, Crennel, Patricia, etc.

Rock star OC / DCs that are universally respected. But subpar when they get promoted one level higher.

So that's why he was not a first ballot hall of famer!

 

[RF2044]

So that's why he was not a first ballot hall of famer!

Switching gears to this topic, I read a compelling rationale from the KC based voter who didn't vote for BB. It was based more on the rules of voting than on an intentional "snub" of Belichick, and the writer also pointed out that the HOF voting rules were dumb and restrictive.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Red needed someone like Welsh. Welsh was an EXCELLENT coach. A shame that a DUI seemingly ended his career. He 100% should be coaching in some capacity somewhere, today, IMO.

 

[Brooky03]

Switching gears to this topic, I read a compelling rationale from the KC based voter who didn't vote for BB. It was based more on the rules of voting than on an intentional "snub" of Belichick, and the writer also pointed out that the HOF voting rules were dumb and restrictive.

I read that his cheating played a role, too.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

The best coaching tree in any sport has to be Bill Walsh. Off of his tree you get the Shanahan tree. I think a lot of coaches fail because they try to be too much like their mentor and not their own man.

Nick Saban gives anyone a run for their money

 

[RF2044]

I read that his cheating played a role, too.

Maybe for some. The writer I was referring to explained his rationale as having nothing to do with that. Essentially, in the G5 category, there were three older legacy players -- along with Belichick and Kraft. All three of the players were allegedly in their final year of eligibility, so the writer opted to vote for them to give them one last shot.

He explainined that for him, it wasn't about "penalizing" Belichick or excluding him or Kraft -- it was only due to the stupid HOF rules that restricted him to voting only for 3 of the 5. He also thought it was weird that Kraft / Belichick were both on the same ballot for the first time, because it would be like voting for the same thing twice. But he said that "spygate" didn't factor in for him at all, it was only because he was forced into only voting for 3 of the G5 candidates.

 

[Fat tire 13]

Weaver was fired from the Pistons in 2024 and Trajon Langdon took over in 2024. Weaver is the GM of the Pelcians under Joe Dumars where the dynamic duo traded away 2 1st round draft picks, one unprotected to Atlanta to select Derik Queen with the 13th pick last year. Queen has been very good and has a lot of potential but not protecting the 2026 pick that was traded to Atlanta can probably be considered one of the worst trades over the last 15-20 years in the NBA, if it proves to be a 1-3 pick considering that talent in this years draft. The Pelicans are currently 12-37. Like I said, Queen has shown a ton of potential and most wouldn't have much issue with the trade if it was top 3-5 protected. Weaver looks a little foolish there to say the least. Hopkins is currently an assistant with the Pelicans as well. I saw him ( Hop) before a game over the Holidays and still not sure of there is a nicer guy out there than Mike Hopkins. ( I did happen to be wearing a Pearl T Shirt) Hop's role with the Pelicans is more player development than anything, they have 3 rookies and 1 2nd year guy that do get significant playing time.

If Weaver is #2 on the tree, well I truly don't know what to say but Dumars hired Weaver who hired Hop so those guys are certainly loyal to their guys, make no mistake about it. Would not be surprised to see Hop move up the chain in assistants next year, he is very well liked by staff and players which comes as zero surprise.

Oops! Tells you how much I follow the NBA, lol. Thanks for that

 

[Ozone!]

GMAC…​

is a loyal friend; what else would anyone expect?

 

[miamicuse]

"closest friends" is subjective.

My father taught me "keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer..."

 

[OrangePA]

Renarkably thin soup for a 40-year career.

How many great coaches did John Wooden sprout?

Clearly Denny Crum.

Anybody else?

 

[hungrychuck]

Nick Saban gives anyone a run for their money

Then we should all be thanking Frank Maloney for launching Saban.

Just as some here would like to credit JB for Pitino.

 

[Cuseball]

Then we should all be thanking Frank Maloney for launching Saban.

Just as some here would like to credit JB for Pitino.

Coaching tree is so overrated. Calhoun and Jay Wright clearly amazing coaches. I would argue their coaching trees are less than JB. So what?

 

[hungrychuck]

Coaching tree is so overrated. Calhoun and Jay Wright clearly amazing coaches. I would argue their coaching trees are less than JB. So what?

To all those who maintain the coaching tree doesn’t matter, I sincerely apologize.

It’s not as though JB’s ability, or inability, to confer his genius onto his own players or assistants has had a thing to do with our relegation into the trash bin of college basketball irrelevance.

So sorry.

Don’t know what I was thinking.