Good-ish loss...

[A Clockwork Orange]

The young bucks will learn from this.

1) Kadary is the best pure passer SU has had since Lazarus Sims. He has great court vision.

2) Joe needs to be moved off the ball. The problem is Joe is really bad at moving around screens and getting open threes. That's a trait our combo guards (GMac, Trevor) have had to varying degrees of success. Joe is not a natural off the ball. It's going to take time for him to get used to that role and to move around picks, and learn how to back cut. It's a concern because he has never had to be that player in his entire career. He has always had the ball in his hands.

3) Not concerned about the defense. It wasn't very sharp last night but I chalk that up to missing all of the practice time. This team will be solid defensively, especially when the B&B boys are back in the lineup.

4) Woody and Braswell both got some spot minutes last night and I thought they both played reasonably well. Woody is a confident player and moves naturally on the court. Would like to see him getting more minutes.

5) The bench shortened considerably in the 2nd half, but for a good deal of it, SU was playing lights out on offense. They were really shredding the RU defense. They stayed out too long though, Rutgers adjusted, Joe took some horrific shots (as did Griffin) which led to fastbreak opportunities. Threw the trunk monkey press out there which didn't work. That's what happens when you're sloppy and careless in the last five minutes of a game. That's a learning opportunity though and I'm sure it will be a point of emphasis moving forward.

6) There are enough offensive weapons this year that Griffin and Girard should not, and do not need to force it. For Joe, I think it's a bad habit he picked up last year. For Griffin I think it's because he walked into this year believing he was and should be the man. They need the game to come to them a bit more. This team is world's better with Kadary being the primary distributor. He can get into the lane pretty much at will and dish to Grif and Joe G. on the outside.

I really, really, really hope JB starts Kadary and Buddy on Saturday. Bring Joe in off the bench. I'm concerned if Kadary goes back to the bench Joe will potentially start getting the quick hook if he plays poorly which is going to make him play worse. I really don't want it to turn into a situation where a player psychologically is out of it. Give Kadary the reins and teach Joe how to play off the ball better. Have Buddy switch between the 2/3, Grif between the 2/3, Quincy the 4, and Marek the 3/4/5. Bring in Woody as a swiss army knife and you have yourself a pretty versatile team that will give a lot of teams fits. When Bourama gets back, you've got yourself a top 4 or 5 ACC team in my mind. It only happens though if Kadary is force-fed PG minutes, and Joe takes to being an off-the-ball player. Those things happen and I think this could be a really fun year.

 

[RF2044]

I hate losing, tough to take anything positive from it.

But last night's loss felt qualitatively different than those two blowout losses to Iowa / PSU last year, where we got annihilated.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I hate losing, tough to take anything positive from it.

But last night's loss felt qualitatively different than those two blowout losses to Iowa / PSU last year, where we got annihilated.

And Oregon the year before, South Carolina/Wisconsin the year earlier, etc.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

I hate losing, tough to take anything positive from it.

But last night's loss felt qualitatively different than those two blowout losses to Iowa / PSU last year, where we got annihilated.

Last year felt like an uphill climb the whole season after those games. It felt like we had seen that the ceiling for this team wasn't really high. This year I see a team that has the pieces to be really competitive in the ACC.

 

[721Comstock]

I hate losing, tough to take anything positive from it.

But last night's loss felt qualitatively different than those two blowout losses to Iowa / PSU last year, where we got annihilated.

Agreed 144%.
We were never really “in” either of those games.

Last night, we clawed back multiple times, and even took that late lead.

Sadly, Joe & Alan then went full hero ball from that moment to the end, and we didn’t run a single offensive set -
just those guys alternating taking increasingly awful jacked 3’s from 30+ feet out.

JB needs to sub Joe out for some (or even all) of the time from 16 minutes down to 8 in the second halves of games.

I get that he ‘must’ be in for the final 8 minutes of games, but he does NOT need to play 20/20 minutes in the 2nd half EVER.

 

[pearl31]

The young bucks will learn from this.

1) Kadary is the best pure passer SU has had since Lazarus Sims. He has great court vision.

2) Joe needs to be moved off the ball. The problem is Joe is really bad at moving around screens and getting open threes. That's a trait our combo guards (GMac, Trevor) have had to varying degrees of success. Joe is not a natural off the ball. It's going to take time for him to get used to that role and to move around picks, and learn how to back cut. It's a concern because he has never had to be that player in his entire career. He has always had the ball in his hands.

3) Not concerned about the defense. It wasn't very sharp last night but I chalk that up to missing all of the practice time. This team will be solid defensively, especially when the B&B boys are back in the lineup.

4) Woody and Braswell both got some spot minutes last night and I thought they both played reasonably well. Woody is a confident player and moves naturally on the court. Would like to see him getting more minutes.

5) The bench shortened considerably in the 2nd half, but for a good deal of it, SU was playing lights out on offense. They were really shredding the RU defense. They stayed out too long though, Rutgers adjusted, Joe took some horrific shots (as did Griffin) which led to fastbreak opportunities. Threw the trunk monkey press out there which didn't work. That's what happens when you're sloppy and careless in the last five minutes of a game. That's a learning opportunity though and I'm sure it will be a point of emphasis moving forward.

6) There are enough offensive weapons this year that Griffin and Girard should not, and do not need to force it. For Joe, I think it's a bad habit he picked up last year. For Griffin I think it's because he walked into this year believing he was and should be the man. They need the game to come to them a bit more. This team is world's better with Kadary being the primary distributor. He can get into the lane pretty much at will and dish to Grif and Joe G. on the outside.

I really, really, really hope JB starts Kadary and Buddy on Saturday. Bring Joe in off the bench. I'm concerned if Kadary goes back to the bench Joe will potentially start getting the quick hook if he plays poorly which is going to make him play worse. I really don't want it to turn into a situation where a player psychologically is out of it. Give Kadary the reins and teach Joe how to play off the ball better. Have Buddy switch between the 2/3, Grif between the 2/3, Quincy the 4, and Marek the 3/4/5. Bring in Woody as a swiss army knife and you have yourself a pretty versatile team that will give a lot of teams fits. When Bourama gets back, you've got yourself a top 4 or 5 ACC team in my mind. It only happens though if Kadary is force-fed PG minutes, and Joe takes to being an off-the-ball player. Those things happen and I think this could be a really fun year.

good stuff, agree w pretty much all.
Kadary/Girard situation prolly gonna be tricky

 

[two3zone]

Out defense is a smoking pile of poop. We lost games last year where the offense was amazing and it’s going to happen this year. This team isn’t good and won’t be.

 

[Jeremy L.]

For all we know, Rutgers could finish top 15 and this loss doesn't look as bad on paper. It's how we lost that frustrates all of us (outrebounded, shooters taking us out of it).

 

[cuse309]

We've been counting "good losses" on the football side for about 20 years now. It's not a good place to be.

 

[pearl31]

anytime you have a lead late in a game and end up losing it's going to be a hard loss to swallow - too hard to say right now, esp in this surreal season, what it means big picture

 

[721Comstock]

We've been counting "good losses" on the football side for about 20 years now. It's not a good place to be.

Totally different.

Losing to a fairly legit Top 25 team (yes, I know it's bizarre to say this about Rutgers) - on the road - while missing 2 of 5 starters, and having actually clawed back to take a late lead -
is not a bad L.

The ACC in particular, and college hoops in general, is down this year.
There are no guaranteed L's on the schedule.

We have a chance to round into a pretty good team.

 

[Newhouser]

Without fans I think RU may struggle a bit more this year than people are expecting. They will not get nearly as many wide open looks as they did last night, and I didn't really leave the game thinking that is a legit Top 20 team.

I think the Big 10 is good and I am not sure RU matches last year's home success. Obviously I hope they do as it helps our resume but I fell better about our team moving forward in the ACC than I do about their chances in the Big 10.

 

[Alsacs]

We aren’t talking about Gonzaga, Baylor, Villanova or Illinois.

We are talking about Rutgers being a good loss. Nope.
Sorry can’t do that.
It wasn’t a good loss.

It wasn’t a crushing loss or season altering loss but it wasn’t a good loss.
It was loss we could have prevented even without Buddy and Sidibe if the team was fresher at the end and Girard sat down more.

 

[althea]

It was loss we could have prevented even without Buddy and Sidibe if the team was fresher at the end and Girard sat down more.

FWIW - You say this like it's established fact. It's not.

Not to pick on you, but there are many experts on this board that would've won this game if they were coaching the team. I'm trying to stay grounded in reality, so I have serious doubts about that.

 

[Alsacs]

FWIW - You say this like it's established fact. It's not.

Not to pick on you, but there are many experts on this board that would've won this game if they were coaching the team. I'm trying to stay grounded in reality, so I have serious doubts about that.

You are free to feel differently and I am not offended.

My statement is an opinion but it is based on what I saw.
I am not an expert but using my eyes it’s not hard to see how hard the team was laboring when their were two extended moments in the second half without an ball stoppages.

Also Girard’s bad shots did led to transition buckets that started RU’s 17-3 run to end the game.

 

[Cuserulz]

Going to be a long year. Many of the reasons were on full display last night. Dare I say that the game has passed JB and the staff by?

 

[NKR1978]

Last year felt like an uphill climb the whole season after those games. It felt like we had seen that the ceiling for this team wasn't really high. This year I see a team that has the pieces to be really competitive in the ACC.

I feel like I could probably find posts from myself expressing being optimistic after some of those early losses the last several years. But this really does feel different. Hopefully we're not talking ourselves into thinking that way.

 

[HSPORANGE]

Going to be a long year. Many of the reasons were on full display last night. Dare I say that the game has passed JB and the staff by?

Yawn, the game has not passed JB and staff by. It's one game on the road vs a ranked team who was favored (minus 2 starters). Did I think JB could have better used his bench...yes. Was the defense very bad...yes. Did shot selection stink at times...yes. But I'm certainly not going to proclaim the game has passed JB by because of a loss vs Rutgers.

ACC is down and this team will get better as they play/practice more. Hopefully JB shortens Girard's leash when Buddy comes back. I actually think this team will be better and not have to sweat out a tourney invite come selection Sunday.

 

[Chip]

To me we look more athletic, and look like a much better passing team than recent years.

But there's still the problem when Marek is in the middle trying to go up against guys who weigh twice as much as him.

Hopefully we can outscore that problem more often than not this year when we face it.

 

[OrangeDW]

In the sense that we had the lead with 5 minutes left and should’ve been in prime position to close it out with another couple good possessions and hoops at that point, without Buddy and Sidibe? Sure.

And in the sense that we really shot ourselves in the foot with poor shot selection and decisions at key times - which should be correctable things? Sure.

Still...we lost to a team with less talent than us IMO.

Rutgers is a solid team with limited upside IMO. That’s a team that it’s almost impossible to see them going deep in the tourney - but they’re a pretty good bet to make the tourney. You’d like to close the door when you play well enough to have a late lead against a team like that. It’s not like they were just flat out better and we were helpless or something.

THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY ARE! And we let Em off the hook!

 

[pearl31]

Rutgers is a solid team with limited upside IMO. That’s a team that it’s almost impossible to see them going deep in the tourney - but they’re a pretty good bet to make the tourney. You’d like to close the door when you play well enough to have a late lead against a team like that. It’s not like they were just flat out better and we were helpless or something.

eh I hear you but they're a really good and OLD college team - and Harper Jr for them is the ultimate epitome of that - he won't be an NBA pro but is super skilled, can do pretty much everything, and knows how to use his body - he reminds me alot of Bonzi Colson when he played for ND.
yep we should have ended up better than -10 considering we had possession of the ball +3 with less than 5 to play, but we lost to a really good college team

 

[skurey]

I feel like we have a lot of potential but it seems the past few years the team never really puts their potential together for more than a few games

 

[RF2044]

I feel like we have a lot of potential but it seems the past few years the team never really puts their potential together for more than a few games

One big step toward actualizing the team's potential is to give the lone true PG on the squad the keys to the car, and let him drive.

Having that legit lead guard is a big differentiator between this year's team and others the past few years, IMO.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Out defense is a smoking pile of poop. We lost games last year where the offense was amazing and it’s going to happen this year. This team isn’t good and won’t be.

Reading through this thread I find myself wondering what game some of you watched. It is typical of us Central New Yorkers to be cynical and easy to find the dark side of everything. And I get that. If I go into the game expecting them to win against Rutgers maybe I come out concerned.

The fact of the matter is, we have one guy on the court with significant experience in the zone and our offense, and two others who are still learning. The other two starters are brand new. The three backups are all brand new. This is a YOUNG team, with the senior leadership coming from the C/ line of a guy who is not a consistent scorer but has plenty of hustle and an innate ability to find the right teammate while passing.

I knew Kadary would be a solid addition, but the intangibles he showed last night from his work at the top of the zone (though rotations were wonky all night) tapping and disrupting passes, to his drive and dishes show me we have someone who can make those around him much better.

The defense wasn't great last night, but there's room to improve and I think Kadary is a fast learner. If he gets the rotations down, we've got a much different lookup top when Buddy comes back.

The whole year really hinges on what JB decides to do with Kadary now that Buddy is back. I'm optimistic if he gives him the keys and allows Joe time to improve as an off-the-ball player. With Buddy and Alan on the wings and Kadary having a great ability to find the open man, this offense will hum.

The defense will catch up. Joe is a liability which is why he should be in there as little as possible with Buddy up top. The two of them have a very difficult time finding the shooter, and also have a bad time stopping the interior pass and dribble drive.

So JG with Buddy up top will give us trouble all year on defense. Marek manning the center position all year will be a liability. I have faith that Griffin and Guerrier can become solid wing defenders by mid-January. They have the tools, they need the practices under their belts to help with rotational positioning.

I actually think the offense this year has a much higher ceiling this year than last year, and I think the defense will be an improvement from last year as well. I've watched, coached, and played enough basketball to know that the way this team looked in that game last night versus the way they looked last year against Penn State is completely different. I also believe Rutgers IS a top 25 time, and I think SU will be by the end of the year as well.
Maybe it's because I'm a transplanted CNY'er and my natural pessimism is being bleached away with the southern sun, but I think this team has promise.