Good Lesson- Mike Stoops at Arizona

[IthacaBarrel]

Hung on to long, fired mid season. My point is people need to quit looking for references of good coaches that took time to turn a program around because for every one of these there is a program that held onto a coach too long when the writing was on the wall after 3-4 seasons. People want to give Doug more time, that is fine. My opinion remains what it is. However, lets not bury our head in the sand either and pretend that he doesn't have critical issues that need to be addressed in the off season that can't be pushed back on the old regime at this point. This is Doug's program and nobody elses. Not Gross' etc.

He has serious soul searching to do this week as well as the off season.. He needs to get to a bowl game to put any postive spin on this season and Marrone would be the first to tell you that

 

[xc84]

give it up. He got us to a bowl in his second season. He inherited a team that won an average of 2.5 games per season the 4 years prior to his arrival. It's an uphill battle and not going to turn around overnight. He'll be given his full 5 years as he should be.

 

[Aweart23]

Hung on to long, fired mid season. My point is people need to quit looking for references of good coaches that took time to turn a program around because for every one of these there is a program that held onto a coach too long when the writing was on the wall after 3-4 seasons. People want to give Doug more time, that is fine. My opinion remains what it is. However, lets not bury our head in the sand either and pretend that he doesn't have critical issues that need to be addressed in the off season that can't be pushed back on the old regime at this point. This is Doug's program and nobody elses. Not Gross' etc.

He has serious soul searching to do this week as well as the off season.. He needs to get to a bowl game to put any postive spin on this season and Marrone would be the first to tell you that

IB Stoops didn't have a winning record until year 5...Dougie has already gone to a bowl game...

 

[SmilinBob]

Stoops is a perfect example of a coach getting a job because he had good players at oklahoma and arizona was foolish enough to believe stoops was the reason they played well.

 

[jkm54]

Hung on to long, fired mid season. My point is people need to quit looking for references of good coaches that took time to turn a program around because for every one of these there is a program that held onto a coach too long when the writing was on the wall after 3-4 seasons. People want to give Doug more time, that is fine. My opinion remains what it is. However, lets not bury our head in the sand either and pretend that he doesn't have critical issues that need to be addressed in the off season that can't be pushed back on the old regime at this point. This is Doug's program and nobody elses. Not Gross' etc.

He has serious soul searching to do this week as well as the off season.. He needs to get to a bowl game to put any postive spin on this season and Marrone would be the first to tell you that

Perhaps altogether we should stop looking at other programs, and realize that Syracuse has its own set of circumstances/obstacles/positives and look at the scenario based on that. Our expectations of this team should be based on nothing but the circumstances that surround the Syracuse football program. I mean if you want to say for every one coach that has succeeded on a long term project, one has failed, then, while this year has been a disappointment and a step backwards, I'll still take those odds based on the overall product (the entire 3 years, not just looking at this season) I've seen so far. Again, that's not saying everything is picture perfect. But my expectations are different from some. And before I'm accused of "accepting mediocrity," I just didn't expect huge things from the team this year after losing what we lost last year and numbers gap that existed for upper classmen due to the defections once Marrone signed on. I'm just as frustrated as anyone watching the last three games and my wife is equally frightened as the rest of your wives when we're all throwing things in a fit of temper tantrums mid-games, but in the long run, I just didn't expect that much and would still like to see 2 more years of the program under Marrone.

You saying that people are burying their head in the sand doesn't it make it so. I haven't read too many posts from people that don't recognize that this team has some critical issues. Most recognize the past 3 games as a step backwards, but it has yet to be seen exactly how that effects the long-term.

I just wonder how many different ways people can say the same thing over and over again.

 

[SoBristol]

Sure there are issues (special teams being high on my own list), but the bigger picture is whether the program is moving in the right direction in terms of player development, building pipelines to good HS programs, retaining good assistants, and recruiting. Do the kids in the program give the coaches high marks? Are they enthusiastic in selling the program to visiting recruits? Are we making at least a few inroads versus our peers when we are competing for kids that several programs want? Are we landing more kids who can be students and solid citizens on campus? Is Doug Marrone the face we want on this program?

For me, there are easy answers. He is the right guy, and rebuilding is getting done -- not in terms of wins this year, but overall direction. I would like to see some more emotion on the sidelines; I would like to see a coach being aggressive on 4th and 1 foot vs. Rutgers. But these are nits, if the recruiting is getting better year to year and players are developing in the ways we hope.

 

[Faegan]

If we were to fire Doug after this year, and perhaps even after next, what head coach is going to want to come here?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If we were to fire Doug after this year, and perhaps even after next, what head coach is going to want to come here?

A guy who wants to be a head coach in the ACC and a BCS conference, that realizes he has 3 years to show results, or are the cupboards completely bare? A guy who is not working, Rich Rod, Leach who wants to coach again. Or a guy that is looking for a pay hike and a job in a bcs conference, who will have 3 years to win games, ie; Larry Fedora at SO Miss.

Or a guy like Sumlin that we will need to pay.

I don't see this argument as being valid. 3-4 years is about the norm in the coaching profession

 

[dollarbill44]

Your storyline has become tiresome!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Your storyline has become tiresome!

It's real simple, ignore my posts or don't comment. Real simple. I am not attacking you personally am I? Move on

 

[Faegan]

A guy who wants to be a head coach in the ACC and a BCS conference, that realizes he has 3 years to show results, or are the cupboards completely bare? A guy who is not working, Rich Rod, Leach who wants to coach again. Or a guy that is looking for a pay hike and a job in a bcs conference, who will have 3 years to win games, ie; Larry Fedora at SO Miss.

Or a guy like Sumlin that we will need to pay.

I don't see this argument as being valid. 3-4 years is about the norm in the coaching profession

And I don't see your argument as being valid. 3-4 years is the norm where? Nebraska? Michigan? Florida? That ain't us. Rich Rod wouldn't even stay at his alma mater when he had success there. He was gone to the first marquis job he had thrown his way. Should Doug move us forward, which is absolutely still an "IF," he is an alumni that wants to be HERE. I don't underestimate the value of that, either in stability or recruiting.

 

[Scooch]

Hung on to long, fired mid season. My point is people need to quit looking for references of good coaches that took time to turn a program around because for every one of these there is a program that held onto a coach too long when the writing was on the wall after 3-4 seasons. People want to give Doug more time, that is fine. My opinion remains what it is. However, lets not bury our head in the sand either and pretend that he doesn't have critical issues that need to be addressed in the off season that can't be pushed back on the old regime at this point. This is Doug's program and nobody elses. Not Gross' etc.

He has serious soul searching to do this week as well as the off season.. He needs to get to a bowl game to put any postive spin on this season and Marrone would be the first to tell you that

Yeah, not too many people are "burying their heads in the sand". Seems like 90% of people here admit that things are askew. It's just that most of us don't see the point in firing the guy. You do. And of course that's a very safe position to take, because most coaches end up being fired. So you definitely have a better chance of being proven "right".

 

[kingottoiii]

A guy who wants to be a head coach in the ACC and a BCS conference, that realizes he has 3 years to show results, or are the cupboards completely bare? A guy who is not working, Rich Rod, Leach who wants to coach again. Or a guy that is looking for a pay hike and a job in a bcs conference, who will have 3 years to win games, ie; Larry Fedora at SO Miss.

Or a guy like Sumlin that we will need to pay.

I don't see this argument as being valid. 3-4 years is about the norm in the coaching profession

The problem is Marrone is an alumn and has a lot of backers at SU. That is how he even got an interview in the first place, because on paper he did not deserve one. If he wasn't an alumn then I would say 6 years is fair. While he isn't doing a good job, he isn't doing a bad one either. So it doesn't hurt to keep him here and give him a chance. But after 6 years if no progress is made, then he should be fired.

However since he is an alumn, I think he will get 8 years. That means the 6th year is our first in the ACC. If Doug doesn't make a lot of changes by then, he will be eaten alive in that conference. And it will be a lot easier to fire him. You can't fire a guy for making a Bowl every year. I think he will be able to achieve that while in the BE. But once we move to the ACC, the bottom will fall out.

So you likely will be watching Marrone another 5 years. Which means there is no point in asking him to be fired. Hackett on the other hand you can do 5 times a day.

The only other possibility IMO is for Marrone to resign. If he feels he is over his head or if TGD insists on a new OC, I could see Marrone leaving. He is too stubborn to change OCs and that might make him go back to the NFL. Again this is all assuming Marrone doesn't change things and/or get any better at his craft. It is too early to give up on him. But TGD should definitely be concocting an exit plan because there are a lot of red flags.

 

[Townie72]

Your storyline has become tiresome!

I guess conversations like this one is what makes being a fan interesting to some.

"Fire the coach". "Bench the QB". "Stop running the ball up the Middle". It's all so predictable.

Read the forums of all the teams with less than .500 record. You'll read the same thing one every one. There's no originality in this.

But the critics of the coaches have little credibility on this subject. Seriously, who can take a bunch of accountants, and lawyers or middle managers or stock analysts or whatever seriously on the subject?

In Washington, the Redskins "experts" breathed a sigh of relief when McNabb left. "Beck's the answer at QB", they said when Grossman was given the job. When they got their way, and Beck failed, they were back on Coach Shanahan being inept (in spite of his record).

Getting SU back to the 1980's and 1990's is going to be a long pull. Much to long for the impatient among us.

After Schwartzwalder was allowed to stay too long, it took 7 or 8 years to get the program back to being ranked in the top 20 (1979). It took another 5 years beyond that to get back to where Ben had the program.

 

[GoSU96]

Hung on to long, fired mid season. My point is people need to quit looking for references of good coaches that took time to turn a program around because for every one of these there is a program that held onto a coach too long when the writing was on the wall after 3-4 seasons. People want to give Doug more time, that is fine. My opinion remains what it is. However, lets not bury our head in the sand either and pretend that he doesn't have critical issues that need to be addressed in the off season that can't be pushed back on the old regime at this point. This is Doug's program and nobody elses. Not Gross' etc.

He has serious soul searching to do this week as well as the off season.. He needs to get to a bowl game to put any postive spin on this season and Marrone would be the first to tell you that

You're complaining that the landscaping looks like crap when the roofers have just finished their part of the job.

It's not a finished product. Get over it.

 

[GoSU96]

Hung on to long, fired mid season. My point is people need to quit looking for references of good coaches that took time to turn a program around because for every one of these there is a program that held onto a coach too long when the writing was on the wall after 3-4 seasons. People want to give Doug more time, that is fine. My opinion remains what it is. However, lets not bury our head in the sand either and pretend that he doesn't have critical issues that need to be addressed in the off season that can't be pushed back on the old regime at this point. This is Doug's program and nobody elses. Not Gross' etc.

He has serious soul searching to do this week as well as the off season.. He needs to get to a bowl game to put any postive spin on this season and Marrone would be the first to tell you that

Why is it good lesson?

Stoops has been there 7 years, and the last three he's doing worse than the prior four. Arizona is 2-8 this year.

 

[Aweart23]

The problem is Marrone is an alumn and has a lot of backers at SU. That is how he even got an interview in the first place, because on paper he did not deserve one. If he wasn't an alumn then I would say 6 years is fair. While he isn't doing a good job, he isn't doing a bad one either. So it doesn't hurt to keep him here and give him a chance. But after 6 years if no progress is made, then he should be fired.

However since he is an alumn, I think he will get 8 years. That means the 6th year is our first in the ACC. If Doug doesn't make a lot of changes by then, he will be eaten alive in that conference. And it will be a lot easier to fire him. You can't fire a guy for making a Bowl every year. I think he will be able to achieve that while in the BE. But once we move to the ACC, the bottom will fall out.

So you likely will be watching Marrone another 5 years. Which means there is no point in asking him to be fired. Hackett on the other hand you can do 5 times a day.

The only other possibility IMO is for Marrone to resign. If he feels he is over his head or if TGD insists on a new OC, I could see Marrone leaving. He is too stubborn to change OCs and that might make him go back to the NFL. Again this is all assuming Marrone doesn't change things and/or get any better at his craft. It is too early to give up on him. But TGD should definitely be concocting an exit plan because there are a lot of red flags.

He already fired one OC after year one...What makes you think he won't fire another one?

 

[kingottoiii]

He already fired one OC after year one...What makes you think he won't fire another one?

IMO he hired Spence because Marrone wanted to be a CEO the first year. He knew there was a lot of work and couldn't be heavily involved in just the O. So he went out and hired an OC. After settling into the HC position Marrone felt comfortable enough to take on the O as well. So he hired a guy who could execute his O in Hackett. Since this is Marrone's O he would essentially be firing himself as OC. Which is why I don't think it will come easy this time.