Got a complaint from a friend about losing out on top NYS players

[Orangeyes]

It read:

Wow...this needs to change

Holley, 6-foot-4, 299 pounds, is among the recent top New York prospects to
bypass Syracuse. Included in that list are defensive end Ebenezer Ogundeko
(Clemson), quarterback Chad Kelly (Clemson), defensive tackle Jarron Jones
(Notre Dame), linebacker Ishaq Williams (Notre Dame) and defensive tackle
Dominique Easley (Florida).

My response

Still waiting for any of them to do one significant thing in college besides Easley.

Take a kid like Jason Bromley who no one gave an offer to until 3 months before his freshman season.

The kid is blowing it up at the East-West Shrine practices 81 inch wing span, explosive first step and power bull rush is gaining the attention of pro scouts.

Jason was a 0 star

The other players you mentioned were 4 & 5 stars

Chad Kelly (I won't put here what I wrote but we are best off without him)

How about Shamarko Thomas (Virginia) very lightly regarded coming out of high school he graded out right at the top at the combine and the Steeler's including Troy Polamalu are gushing about his future

Justin Pugh (PA) nobody big went after him, he is going to make all rookie 1st team, started every game for the New York Giants in what should have been his senior year in college.

Getting back to New York State

Chandler and Arthur Jones were both lightly regarded coming out of high school

Chandler is a 2nd year starter for New England and could end up in the Super Bowl one year after his brother got a ring playing a key role on the Ravens defensive line.

How about Steve Gregory a starter with San Diego for years and now possibly headed to the Super Bowl with his New England teammate Jones.

Mackey Mac Pherson is the best center Syracuse has had in many years. The kid came in and was assaulted by many so called SU fans as being a wasted scholly only getting it because of his grandpa's pull. I wish the kid could play four more years. His passion for the program was unparalleled and his leadership was something to behold not to mention his work ethic.

My friend I would not trade any of those non or low ranked kids for any of the ones mentioned in your note.

 

[SUfanNC]

It would be nice to get some of the top talent in NYS but I'm sure as hell not going to stress over it. Like Shafer said "I want kids who want to be here". If those kids that leave the state for other programs want to sit for a few years and then maybe get passed over for younger talent go for it.

 

[Orangeyes]

It would be nice to get some of the top talent in NYS but I'm sure as hell not going to stress over it. Like Shafer said "I want kids who want to be here". If those kids that leave the state for other programs want to sit for a few years and then maybe get passed over for younger talent go for it.

There is a lot to be said about a kid wanting to get a chance to play early. At a place like Syracuse they get more reps early and have a better chance to develop over the course of five years. In the cases of Chandler Jones and Justin Pugh we had a need for them to play early and their path to the NFL was accelerated. As these examples keep being produced it will get easier to sell that concept.

Baby steps will lead us back to the top 25, the road to it is showing some footprints.

 

[GoSU96]

Macky, Robinson - Section 3 starters. Dixon - CBA.

Hunt, Broyld, AC, McFarland, Foy on offense. Palmer back up Guard

Welsh, Reddish, Morgan on defense.

Scissum and Simmonds in waiting, Williams and Howard coming in.

 

[SUfanNC]

I fully agree. I don't think about the kids that go to other schools. They did what the thought was good for them. I think that Syracuse has proven in the past 5 years that we develop talent. The kids that go to these other schools have reasons that they choose them but I would think the fact that Syracuse has proven they can develop a kid would be appealing to a kid trying to get to the next level.

 

[upperdeck]

Every state loses some of the top prospects to other state schools.. our issue is NY only has 1-2 high profile kids so it looks much worse. but time has shown the rankings of NY state kids is all over the place since so few of them are actually seen by the ranking sites.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The fact is we have done OK in NYS probably better than OK. As soon as people realize that we aren't going to win battles very often and more close to ever versus the BIG programs. Go tour the facilities, look at the game day atmosphere at the big schools. It is what it is.

Most here if they had no ties to Cuse would go elsewhere as well

 

[SUfanNC]

Every state loses some of the top prospects to other state schools.. our issue is NY only has 1-2 high profile kids so it looks much worse. but time has shown the rankings of NY state kids is all over the place since so few of them are actually seen by the ranking sites.

True. I really couldn't be happier at this point in the direction and staff of the team. They seem to be getting guys they want for the most part.

 

[jekelish]

We aren't yet at the point where we can land the top 1 or maybe 2 prospects in the state because the big boys still get them, but look at, oh, 3-10 and I'm guessing we are in on and land a lot in that range.

Edit: Oh and OE, you could have mentioned Mike Williams, too. He turned out to be pretty ok.

 

[SUfanNC]

We aren't yet at the point where we can land the top 1 or maybe 2 prospects in the state because the big boys still get them, but look at, oh, 3-10 and I'm guessing we are in on and land a lot in that range.

Which is fine with me. Especially if we take a couple of the 3-10 and get them into NFL while 1 and 2 maybe get stuck behind some talent at other places.

 

[OttoForLife]

The NYS thing - and any school trying to build a wall around its state's borders - is all fluff. Who cares? Never hear this crap about Notre Dame or Stamford right? You sure as hell don't hear it about basketball.

But for those who are going to give it the time, hard to argue in the last five years, there have been more productive and fun-to-watch/easy-to-root-for players at SU than Art, Chandler, Bromley, and Macky. (Feel free to add Sales there, too, but he wasn't as easy to root for IMO.)

 

[SUfanNC]

The NYS thing - and any school trying to build a wall around its state's borders - is all fluff. Who cares? Never hear this crap about Notre Dame or Stamford right? You sure as hell don't hear it about basketball.

But for those who are going to give it the time, hard to argue in the last five years, there have been more productive and fun-to-watch/easy-to-root-for players at SU than Art, Chandler, Bromley, and Macky. (Feel free to add Sales there, too, but he wasn't as easy to root for IMO.)

I don't think anyone can build a wall but I do think they try to have pipelines that they can rely on. As far as ND they are a national program they don't need a state pipeline and Stanford is playing at a high level right now so they have momentum in the recruiting front

 

[jgeorge322]

i find it ironic that easley is the only guy who did anything and absolutely depised being at florida.

 

[upperdeck]

We aren't yet at the point where we can land the top 1 or maybe 2 prospects in the state because the big boys still get them, but look at, oh, 3-10 and I'm guessing we are in on and land a lot in that range.

Edit: Oh and OE, you could have mentioned Mike Williams, too. He turned out to be pretty ok.

williams is the example that shows it doesnt matter, was he even ranked?

 

[Orangeyes]

We aren't yet at the point where we can land the top 1 or maybe 2 prospects in the state because the big boys still get them, but look at, oh, 3-10 and I'm guessing we are in on and land a lot in that range.

Edit: Oh and OE, you could have mentioned Mike Williams, too. He turned out to be pretty ok.

Getting ready for a procedure in an hour, only had time to take stuff off the top of my head. That's why I put this on the board because I knew our loyalist would supply more ammo as I shoot my buddy's complaint full of holes.

Beside putting up the articles and reading them, nominating someone from this board for a major award and running to the outhouse it's all the time I had to get the ball rolling.

Thanks for that reminder this is the same friend who ran into Mike under a tent in Tampa a few weeks ago.

BTW my buddy, is the male version of SNL's Debbie Downer.

 

[JackBauer44]

I haven't seen much of Jarron Jones, but he was playing against Rutgers a decent amount in the pinstripe bowl. I still would have loved to get him. We have gotten some quality players from NY, in time, We'll start landing the bigger ones. I like this staff, and winning helps. If we have the season we should have next season, I think we should really be excited. This class being able to sell a consistent, winning program will be very powerful.

 

[GoSU96]

The NYS thing - and any school trying to build a wall around its state's borders - is all fluff. Who cares? Never hear this crap about Notre Dame or Stamford right? You sure as hell don't hear it about basketball.

But for those who are going to give it the time, hard to argue in the last five years, there have been more productive and fun-to-watch/easy-to-root-for players at SU than Art, Chandler, Bromley, and Macky. (Feel free to add Sales there, too, but he wasn't as easy to root for IMO.)

SU is the only BCS program in NY. Stanford, not so much. ND is a national program, and Indiana is even less of a source of players, and there are two BIG programs in the state as well.

Not the same. There is nothing wrong with building the brand identity so that SU is at least on the list and gets a visit from the best prospects in the state.

 

[jekelish]

SU is the only BCS program in NY. Stanford, not so much. ND is a national program, and Indiana is even less of a source of players, and there are two BIG programs in the state as well.

Not the same. There is nothing wrong with building the brand identity so that SU is at least on the list and gets a visit from the best prospects in the state.

People will hate it but a better comparison, for that very reason, is probably Rutgers with New Jersey. Granted, Jersey tends to have better football prospects so the big boys will come calling more often, but I just took a look at 24/7's list of the top 25 prospects for 2014 in Jersey, and Rutgers has only #7, #15, and #16.

In the top 40, they also have #35, #37, and #38. Now we all hate Rutgers, but the one thing that people tend to give them credit for is their recruiting being at least decent year in and year out. Guess what though, they aren't defending the borders of Jersey much better than we are "building a wall" around New York. These things happen. Kids want to go away from home sometimes, and if an Alabama, or a Florida, or an LSU, or a Michigan, or whoever comes calling, it's going to be awfully hard to keep them close to home.

 

[SUfanNC]

Getting ready for a procedure in an hour, only had time to take stuff off the top of my head. That's why I put this on the board because I knew our loyalist would supply more ammo as I shoot my buddy's complaint full of holes.

Beside putting up the articles and reading them, nominating someone from this board for a major award and running to the outhouse it's all the time I had to get the ball rolling.

Thanks for that reminder this is the same friend who ran into Mike under a tent in Tampa a few weeks ago.

BTW my buddy, is the male version of SNL's Debbie Downer.

Good luck and look forward to hearing from you after the procedure

 

[SUfanNC]

People will hate it but a better comparison, for that very reason, is probably Rutgers with New Jersey. Granted, Jersey tends to have better football prospects so the big boys will come calling more often, but I just took a look at 24/7's list of the top 25 prospects for 2014 in Jersey, and Rutgers has only #7, #15, and #16.

In the top 40, they also have #35, #37, and #38. Now we all hate Rutgers, but the one thing that people tend to give them credit for is their recruiting being at least decent year in and year out. Guess what though, they aren't defending the borders of Jersey much better than we are "building a wall" around New York. These things happen. Kids want to go away from home sometimes, and if an Alabama, or a Florida, or an LSU, or a Michigan, or whoever comes calling, it's going to be awfully hard to keep them close to home.

Agreed. If a kid wants to leave so be it. That is why it isn't that important but I would at least like to give him a reason to stay. I believe we are making head way as far as being able to say " Look we would love you to play here at Syracuse. We have a spot available for you and we know we can develop you into someone who will get serious consideration at the next level. With your talent level there is a very good chance you will see the field earlier here than let's say other programs that are recruiting you. ".

 

[OrangeMojo]

SU is the only BCS program in NY. Stanford, not so much. ND is a national program, and Indiana is even less of a source of players, and there are two BIG programs in the state as well.

Not the same. There is nothing wrong with building the brand identity so that SU is at least on the list and gets a visit from the best prospects in the state.

there may be two B1G programs in Indiana, but I don't think either one can be called a BIG program

 

[atcar]

SU is the only BCS program in NY. Stanford, not so much. ND is a national program, and Indiana is even less of a source of players, and there are two BIG programs in the state as well.

Not the same. There is nothing wrong with building the brand identity so that SU is at least on the list and gets a visit from the best prospects in the state.

Yep. Players within the state generate more media interest and sell tickets. Not football, but how many bus trips came up from Scranton (ok that's PA) to see Gerry MacNamara play? Actually we had buses from North Country to see Brian Leonard visit the dome. They generate a 2nd article in the paper.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think we've shown that there are kids that can play in New York, and we've gotten a fair share of the better talent from within the state.

That said, for whatever reason we've struggled on the guys considered elite talents coming out of highschool. We all love Broms, but I don't think we can count on landing good players that are that under the radar.

 

[TheCusian]

I've said it before - but where we are going, NY recruits will put us on their top 2-3 very soon. These FL kids and our coaches are building something.

Step 1. Win.
Step 2. Recruit the best kids irregardless of state and region.
Step 3. Win.
Step 4. Complete IPF.
Step 5. Win.

 

[jekelish]

I've said it before - but where we are going, NY recruits will put us on their top 2-3 very soon. These FL kids and our coaches are building something.

Step 1. Win.
Step 2. Recruit the best kids irregardless of state and region.
Step 3. Win.
Step 4. Complete IPF.
Step 5. Win.

Step 6. PROFIT!!!


...wait, this is one instance in which that actually makes sense.