Great article on George D & Paul P.

[Dick_in_MI]

I don't have an allegiance to them as I was too young at that point. See a lot of people on here saying Coach P shouldn't have ever been fired. Looks like the right call to me based on his coaching record as last 6 years as a head coach between SU and UConn featured 0 winning records, 1 bowl loss and a 26-38 record and no further HC opportunities. Have a hard time thinking that a firing was the wrong call when the coach that got canned never gets another HC job at an equal or better school nor wins at a decent clip at a lower school.

Think the GRob debacle makes people look back more fondly at those last 3 Coach P years then what it shows being disconnected from when it happened.

At the time I felt that it was probably best to part with Coach P, but only because (for better or worse) he had lost the fanbase. There is more that I could say but it is water under the bridge at this point.

I will push back on what you are saying about his last 6 years, though. I don't think what he did at UConn some years after leaving SU is relevant. His last 3 years at SU included his only losing season as an SU head coach plus two 6-6 seasons. The latter included a 4-2 conference record plus 4 of his 6 losses came to ranked teams. He had 13 winning seasons in 14 years, a 107-59-1 record, we went to 9 bowls (winning 6 of them), and for all practical purposes (excepting a 2 year coach in the 1920's) P had the best winning percentage of any SU coach in the past 100 years. People love to use the excuse that "it is impossible to win at SU" but Paul Pasqualoni did it. He flattened out at the end, but even then it was not a losing program.

Dino has done far worse than that in his last 3 years (and without Pasqualoni's track record of previous success at SU) and in response JW has thrown a bunch of $$$ at the program. In P's day, we did not respond by giving the program more $$$ to be successful. Big difference, it was to the program's detriment, and it is important both from the perspective of Dino getting everything that he realistically needs and Pasqualoni not getting the same degree of financial support. I'm VERY happy that Coach Babers is getting what we need, but given P's overall track record at SU, he was certainly deserving of more financial support for the program than he got at the end of his tenure.

If we got to 6-6 this year,...i.e. P's record in his final two years...there would be a parade in Dino's honor. Times have certainly changed concerning how the program is viewed and the standards by which the head coach is judged.

 

[chugg21]

At the time I felt that it was probably best to part with Coach P, but only because (for better or worse) he had lost the fanbase. There is more that I could say but it is water under the bridge at this point.

I will push back on what you are saying about his last 6 years, though. I don't think what he did at UConn some years after leaving SU is relevant. His last 3 years at SU included his only losing season as an SU head coach plus two 6-6 seasons. The latter included a 4-2 conference record plus 4 of his 6 losses came to ranked teams. He had 13 winning seasons in 14 years, a 107-59-1 record, we went to 9 bowls (winning 6 of them), and for all practical purposes (excepting a 2 year coach in the 1920's) P had the best winning percentage of any SU coach in the past 100 years. People love to use the excuse that "it is impossible to win at SU" but Paul Pasqualoni did it. He flattened out at the end, but even then it was not a losing program.

Dino has done far worse than that in his last 3 years (and without Pasqualoni's track record of previous success at SU) and in response JW has thrown a bunch of $$$ at the program. In P's day, we did not respond by giving the program more $$$ to be successful. Big difference, it was to the program's detriment, and it is important both from the perspective of Dino getting everything that he realistically needs and Pasqualoni not getting the same degree of financial support. I'm VERY happy that Coach Babers is getting what we need, but given P's overall track record at SU, he was certainly deserving of more financial support for the program than he got at the end of his tenure.

If we got to 6-6 this year,...i.e. P's record in his final two years...there would be a parade in Dino's honor. Times have certainly changed concerning how the program is viewed and the standards by which the head coach is judged.

Makes sense. Seems like our expectations were higher and 3 straight seasons without a winning record was not acceptable at that point. Kind of funny how that works. Sure hope we don't ever learn a lesson like that in b-ball.

 

[KaiserUEO]

P is eligible for the College Football Hall of Fame and should be in.

the one thing standing in his way may be Syracuse itself.

they need to raise P banner to the rafters and get the campaign going.

 

[GoSU96]

This is correct.

None of that is correct. Full of straw man positions that no one has ever taken. It’s bs

 

[JeffCuse]

None of that is correct. Full of straw man positions that no one has ever taken. It’s bs

Agree to disagree. Room for all opinions.

 

[GoSU96]

Agree to disagree. Room for all opinions.

Nobody has ever said P was unfireable or look back“fondly” on his last three years. Fictitious and false premises make for an invalid argument.

if I say “in my opinion” ice is a gas, water is a solid doesn’t make it a valid opinion.

Firing P when they did was a direct cause to what we have seen the last 18 yrs since.

 

[kcsu]

At the time I felt that it was probably best to part with Coach P, but only because (for better or worse) he had lost the fanbase. There is more that I could say but it is water under the bridge at this point.

I will push back on what you are saying about his last 6 years, though. I don't think what he did at UConn some years after leaving SU is relevant. His last 3 years at SU included his only losing season as an SU head coach plus two 6-6 seasons. The latter included a 4-2 conference record plus 4 of his 6 losses came to ranked teams. He had 13 winning seasons in 14 years, a 107-59-1 record, we went to 9 bowls (winning 6 of them), and for all practical purposes (excepting a 2 year coach in the 1920's) P had the best winning percentage of any SU coach in the past 100 years. People love to use the excuse that "it is impossible to win at SU" but Paul Pasqualoni did it. He flattened out at the end, but even then it was not a losing program.

Dino has done far worse than that in his last 3 years (and without Pasqualoni's track record of previous success at SU) and in response JW has thrown a bunch of $$$ at the program. In P's day, we did not respond by giving the program more $$$ to be successful. Big difference, it was to the program's detriment, and it is important both from the perspective of Dino getting everything that he realistically needs and Pasqualoni not getting the same degree of financial support. I'm VERY happy that Coach Babers is getting what we need, but given P's overall track record at SU, he was certainly deserving of more financial support for the program than he got at the end of his tenure.

If we got to 6-6 this year,...i.e. P's record in his final two years...there would be a parade in Dino's honor. Times have certainly changed concerning how the program is viewed and the standards by which the head coach is judged.

P is in a different league than Dino. Dino wishes he were half the coach.

 

[JeffCuse]

Nobody has ever said P was unfireable or look back“fondly” on his last three years. Fictitious and false premises make for an invalid argument.

if I say “in my opinion” ice is a gas, water is a solid doesn’t make it a valid opinion.

Firing P when they did was a direct cause to what we have seen the last 18 yrs since.

I believe your analogy is flawed. But again, we are free to disagree on that as well. I'm not going to go any further because this thread is about celebrating a very good coach who did a great job for majority of his time at SU and deserves to be lauded for that.

 

[goofnoff]

I believe your analogy is flawed. But again, we are free to disagree on that as well. I'm not going to go any further because this thread is about celebrating a very good coach who did a great job for majority of his time at SU and deserves to be lauded for that.

That's why I'm keeping my mouth shut.

 

[Millhouse]

They aren’t separate because you don’t have the second without the first. TGD broke the hippocratic oath, first do no harm.

I wouldn't have shlit my pants if I hadn't put on pants .

 

[GoSU96]

I wouldn't have shlit my pants if I hadn't put on pants .

Taking a road trip if you have the runs is on you. It’s a choice, a bad one.

And a completely unnecessary one.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I’ll never forget the warnings from Dave Rahme and Donnie Webb when people wanted P&D out. “Be careful what you wish for, the landscape is changing and it’s going to be hard to match their success “.

That wasn’t as much on the coaches as Jake’s refusal/inability (depending on what you believe) to spend $$ to upgrade. He was so close to a NC, IMO. If SU had Vick and Freeney, no way they don’t win. Without that and better facilities,
they just couldn’t recruit anymore.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

At the time I felt that it was probably best to part with Coach P, but only because (for better or worse) he had lost the fanbase. There is more that I could say but it is water under the bridge at this point.

He had also lost the team. There were players telling recruits not to come to SU. Coaches were yelling at players, saying they were going to lose their jobs. It got bad.
I had two, brief interactions with him. His first or second season, as we approached the University Bldg at the same time (I worked there, and he was going to the dentist) he saw that I recognized him. He approached me, hand extended, and introduced himself.
Years later I was in the building, watching film with a recruit, his dad, and a coach. He didn’t say anything to any of us. Totally different guy.

 

[Millhouse]

Taking a road trip if you have the runs is on you. It’s a choice, a bad one.

And a completely unnecessary one.

I beg you to watch this starting at 1:15. It is the greatest bit ever about this subject

 

[kcsu]

That wasn’t as much on the coaches as Jake’s refusal/inability (depending on what you believe) to spend $$ to upgrade. He was so close to a NC, IMO. If SU had Vick and Freeney, no way they don’t win. Without that and better facilities,
they just couldn’t recruit anymore.

The AD blew it.

 

[baggerbob]

The AD blew it.

It was Buzz Shaw,'s fault he didn't care about athletics, and wouldn't spend the money.

 

[SU68]

It was Buzz's antipathy and Jake's ambivalence witnessed by the 2003 visiting search committee that, in large part, kept Syracuse from getting selected by the ACC during the first realignment. The subsequent Virginia political machination was the "frosting on the cake."

 

[baggerbob]

It was Buzz's antipathy and Jake's ambivalence witnessed by the 2003 visiting search committee that, in large part, kept Syracuse from getting selected by the ACC during the first realignment. The subsequent Virginia political machination was the "frosting on the cake."

And that is what hurt the football program, and down the road the basketball program. Had we gone then when the basketball program was at its zenith we would have been ok.
It's possible coach P might have been able to get the program back on its feet.

 

[TeamGlasses]

Academics comes first - something you guys dont realize is a lot of these guys during the glory years were ineligible academically. Coach P can coach football but can he coach student athletes? Same thing happened in the basketball program and look where it is now...time to plan for the future for a decade now.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ugh.

What? Did those things not happen? How did we lose 4 games each year we had McNabb? Those teams were the best teams we have had since 1959.

Or you just think it's in bad taste to bring it up. Yes, facilities were a problem, but so was recruiting, and so was game management.

 

[OrangePA]

What? Did those things not happen? How did we lose 4 games each year we had McNabb? Those teams were the best teams we have had since 1959.

Or you just think it's in bad taste to bring it up. Yes, facilities were a problem, but so was recruiting, and so was game management.

Sorry, I think in the context of the entire 20 year history of their coaching and their extraordinary success it was a stupid observation

 

[OrangePA]

It was Buzz's antipathy and Jake's ambivalence witnessed by the 2003 visiting search committee that, in large part, kept Syracuse from getting selected by the ACC during the first realignment. The subsequent Virginia political machination was the "frosting on the cake."

Syracuse University received a bid from the ACC in 2003. That bid was essentially revoked by the governor of Virginia.

 

[orange79]

It was Buzz's antipathy and Jake's ambivalence witnessed by the 2003 visiting search committee that, in large part, kept Syracuse from getting selected by the ACC during the first realignment. The subsequent Virginia political machination was the "frosting on the cake."

I can't begin to express how wrong this take is.

 

[OrangePA]

I can't begin to express how wrong this take is.

Yes.

 

[baggerbob]

Syracuse University received a bid from the ACC in 2003. That bid was essentially revoked by the governor of Virginia.

We still could have gone at that time, Jake believed the head of BC that they were going to stay.
He should have told the ACC we would still come.