Great coaches are great right away

[Chip]

Can we move this thread to the Correlation Is Not Causation forum?

And interrupt all the threads about how having an innovative offensive mind at head coach means our defense will be terrible?

 

[dasher]

In regards to Coach K, until he got a little assistance (boosters and $$$) Dook was never a huge program. One final four before then doesn't say much.

one final four? They played for the national championship right before he got there and I know they got to the final four in '66 because they beat us to get there.

 

[Alsacs]

What about John Blake from Oklahoma? Mike Dubose from Alabama? Steve Kragthrope from Louisville? Randy Shannan from Miami? Greg Robinson?

Never compare Scott Shafer to an NFL coach. They have a draft and a salary cap totally different game. Dasher do you believe a Scott Shafer led Syracuse team is capable of having a top 50 offense? If so I would love to hear how. The man has honor and seems like a good person but last year looks like a House of Cards and we were lucky to win 7 games.
We are a fake field goal failure from being 2-9. We went 1-5 at home. Whenever we do anything good on offense I am legitimately shocked. If you actually believe Scott Shafer deserves more time I wouldn't use Parcells/Belichick early struggles in a different era in pro football as my comp. I would use college coaches from p5 conferences in the last 10 years.

For every Coach Mac l raise you Coach Spaziani at BC or Bill Stewart at WVU.

 

[TheCusian]

Just remember, using that logic GRob would still be here!

Grob was much worse than Mac in those early days. Much, much worse.

 

[Crusty]

Grob was much worse than Mac in those early days. Much, much worse.

Regardless, the point is the same.

 

[TheCusian]

What about John Blake from Oklahoma? Mike Dubose from Alabama? Steve Kragthrope from Louisville? Randy Shannan from Miami? Greg Robinson? Never compare Scott Shafer to an NFL coach. They have a draft and a salary cap totally different game. Dasher do you believe a Scott Shafer led Syracuse team is capable of having a top 50 offense? If so I would love to hear how. The man has honor and seems like a good person but last year looks like a House of Cards and we were lucky to win 7 games. We are a fake field goal failure from being 2-9. We went 1-5 at home. Whenever we do anything good on offense I am legitimately shocked. If you actually believe Scott Shafer deserves more time I wouldn't use Parcells/Belichick early struggles in a different era in pro football as my comp. I would use college coaches from p5 conferences in the last 10 years. For every Coach Mac l raise you Coach Spaziani at BC or Bill Stewart at WVU.

I know you were asking Dasher, but ...

Top 50 might be tough, but here goes:

Freshman grow up.
Hunt is helped by a new OC with a smarter system; benefits from his time in the booth.
Lester's new system is good; simple and effective. Passing 1st, running second with good balance.
New recruiting class is much like the last. Couple of kids contribute right away.
George Morris is the kind of player that just needs consistent touches.
Ashton and Estime both come back and stay healthy - and have the kind of season we thought they'd have this year.

 

[Crusty]

I know you were asking Dasher, but ...

Top 50 might be tough, but here goes:

Freshman grow up.
Hunt is helped by a new OC with a smarter system; benefits from his time in the booth.
Lester's new system is good; simple and effective. Passing 1st, running second with good balance.
New recruiting class is much like the last. Couple of kids contribute right away.
George Morris is the kind of player that just needs consistent touches.
Ashton and Estime both come back and stay healthy - and have the kind of season we thought they'd have this year.

I can't find any evidence to suggest that Lester will run a pass first offense.

 

[swish7]

Can we move this thread to the Correlation Is Not Causation forum?

Done.

 

[Millhouse]

In Bellichik's (insert good coach's name here that failed initially) first 4 seasons I didn't see much evidence of learning either, same with coach Mac...same decisions, same strategy. They seemed to change who they are... So you are saying you can tell who is going to change and be a good coach? What about good coaches that are going to fail eventually? Are you Nostradamus? EDIT: I would like to know who Michigan and Florida are going to hire and if they are going to be successful. If you don't mind.

I don't remember macs first years. Belichick cheats and got Brady. No one talks about the dumb coaches that stay dumb. Everyone is so scared of letting a good coach go that they risk keeping a bad coach too long.

I don't think Shafer is smart . It might take ten more coaching changes but eventually we will get there. I'm really in no rush though. What's another year?

 

[CuseOnly]

I don't remember macs first years. Belichick cheats and got Brady. No one talks about the dumb coaches that stay dumb. Everyone is so scared of letting a good coach go that they risk keeping a bad coach too long.

I don't think Shafer is smart . It might take ten more coaching changes but eventually we will get there. I'm really in no rush though. What's another year?

The point was that you have no idea what kind of coach he is, neither does anyone else unless he gets a fair shake. Which to this point he has not.

When you can predict who is going to be good and who is going to be bad then I will be happy to listen. Truth is nobody knows but I am willing to wait to find out.

Most aren't willing to wait because of course they know the next guy is going to be great. Truth on this is that they have no idea who will be hired much less whether they will be good or not.

Here are a few more tidbits for you:
The next guy will have the same issues this guy (Shafer) does at SU.
He will have bottom tier facilities.
He will be paid in the bottom 3rd of the ACC Head coaches.
He will have a 34 year old facility to play in.
He will have bad locker rooms in the Dome.
He will not be able to have a good staff because we won't pay the $$.
He will have a terrible recruiting region because of where SU is.
Crappy fan support.
Crappy donor support.
Administration could care less about athletics.
And every other negative thing won't change, etc, etc, etc...

I will give you some guys that I can Absolutely be guaranteed they are successful here but guess what, we can't afford them and they are NEVER coming here.

Nick Saban
Urban Meyer
Chip Kelly

Pretty short list...everyone else is a crapshoot.

 

[dasher]

I don't remember macs first years. Belichick cheats and got Brady. No one talks about the dumb coaches that stay dumb. Everyone is so scared of letting a good coach go that they risk keeping a bad coach too long.

I don't think Shafer is smart . It might take ten more coaching changes but eventually we will get there. I'm really in no rush though. What's another year?

Belichick cheats might be the dumbest thing you have ever said on this board. News flash. Everyone cheats. He is a masterful coach. If you don't know that, stop posting.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Shafer won in year one at SU.

HA!!

 

[KaiserUEO]

Belichick cheats might be the dumbest thing you have ever said on this board. News flash. Everyone cheats. He is a masterful coach. If you don't know that, stop posting.

but he did.

yes, everyone rolls through stop signs and speeds.

he does it in my neighbors lamborghini.

 

[Scooch]

but he did. yes, everyone rolls through stop signs and speeds. he does it in my neighbors lamborghini.

He only cheated after the NFL made what he did illegal.

Until then it was totally cool.

Happened for 2 games.

He's Petitte, basically.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Just remember, using that logic GRob would still be here!

So following good logic is not your strong suit. Good to know. Facts be damned go with the knee jerk reactionaries.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Mrs. Dasher? The lion avatar threw me off.

Nah, you were off to begin with . Have a great Thanksgiving anyway. Anyone posting about hiring firing at this point is a little off anyways, myself included . I just resist following the lynch mob and love honest opinions that have some logic to them vs barroom bravado. Ergo my backing of a positive well thought out thread flying in the face of said mob.

And hey I love that avatar. Took the photo myself on my trip of a lifetime to Tanzania. No-one questioned who was in charge of the Serengeti when this guy strutted through. Was very glad to be in the safety of the jeep and in total awe. But I digress...again...

 

[Crusty]

So following good logic is not your strong suit. Good to know. Facts be damned go with the knee jerk reactionaries.

If you had read my prior post I said that it was impossible to figure oit which coaches that start poorly will end well from those who start poorly and end poorly. If someone know how to do it I am all ears. If you are going to introduce another metric what is it?