Great exposure for the program...

[dasher]

And I get that it's a pattern people don't like. I guess my question is - there were questionable things in multiple games before this week. So why did FSU push people over the edge? A game where basically everyone expected us to get blown out?

I honestly get the frustration, and I understand why people are pissed about the mistakes, and I understand that people want a change. But it just feels like a weird opponent to choose as the one that finally pushes you over the edge.

People are upset because they see a coach making mistakes that none of us would make. Jek, you are a loyal guy. I respect that. I like SS. But please, give me one explanation for that time out? Just one. And the pooch kick, after last week? It just points to a guy that doesn't learn. Plus, his statements after the game to the press, when you get a team you can do it your way, are just wrong. There was nothing wrong with that question. SS comes off arrogant. With zero reason to be.

 

[dasher]

He's entitled to his opinion and I'm sure he has pretty good sources on what's going on with the program.

Maybe he's just a hater with an agenda.[/QUOTE
I think Sean just wants Syracuse to win. He doesn't have a hero worship to a former coach that I know of.

 

[Crusty]

And I get that it's a pattern people don't like. I guess my question is - there were questionable things in multiple games before this week. So why did FSU push people over the edge? A game where basically everyone expected us to get blown out?

I honestly get the frustration, and I understand why people are pissed about the mistakes, and I understand that people want a change. But it just feels like a weird opponent to choose as the one that finally pushes you over the edge.

I think those two calls in a row were so completely incomprehensible and were called out by the announcers were the last straws for a lot of people. Scott makes it very difficult for his supporters at times.

 

[orangecuse]

Then you haven't been paying close enough attention. People aren't upset w/ the loss. They're upset that whatever chance we had at even keeping it close were blown by in-game coaching decisions and longer term coaching failures. The problem isn't losing to FSU. It's losing the same way every week, including to teams not named FSU.

 

[jekelish]

People are upset because they see a coach making mistakes that none of us would make. Jek, you are a loyal guy. I respect that. I like SS. But please, give me one explanation for that time out? Just one. And the pooch kick, after last week? It just points to a guy that doesn't learn. Plus, his statements after the game to the press, when you get a team you can do it your way, are just wrong. There was nothing wrong with that question. SS comes off arrogant. With zero reason to be.

I'm not arguing that point at all. It was a strange time out, and the apparent miscommunication between the coaches and Norton was baffling on that kick. As I said, I fully understand the frustration people are feeling. All I'm saying is that we saw mistakes from the coaches that we saw last week, and some that we saw the weeks before. So it just seems odd that THIS game would be the last straw. That's all.

 

[SUalldway]

What else is there to say? It's a blowout. FSU has only had to throw the ball 2x in the second half. The Syracuse coach has shown himself to be grossly incompetent. It doesn't take a guy with an axe to grind or inside info to start speculating about a change.

We might have the worst defense across all the P5 conferences - swiss cheese every week.

 

[dasher]

I'm not arguing that point at all. It was a strange time out, and the apparent miscommunication between the coaches and Norton was baffling on that kick. As I said, I fully understand the frustration people are feeling. All I'm saying is that we saw mistakes from the coaches that we saw last week, and some that we saw the weeks before. So it just seems odd that THIS game would be the last straw. That's all.

Ever watch a boxing match? The punch that knocks the guy out doesn't appear to be anything more than what he was being hit with for 5 rounds before that. The last one was just the straw that broke the back. How many weeks can we watch the same movie?

 

[jekelish]

Ever watch a boxing match? The punch that knocks the guy out doesn't appear to be anything more than what he was being hit with for 5 rounds before that. The last one was just the straw that broke the back. How many weeks can we watch the same movie?

And I do get that. I guess the thing I'm hung up on is the opponent. If this had come against, say, BC instead of FSU, well, then I'd understand why it might break people. But hey - to each his own.

I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind, it's a fruitless endeavor. All anyone here wants is for SU to be successful.

 

[phil77]

I'm not arguing that point at all. It was a strange time out, and the apparent miscommunication between the coaches and Norton was baffling on that kick. As I said, I fully understand the frustration people are feeling. All I'm saying is that we saw mistakes from the coaches that we saw last week, and some that we saw the weeks before. So it just seems odd that THIS game would be the last straw. That's all.

It is because there is no improvement from the coaches. Week after week it is the same mistakes over and over again. We all understood this was HCSS first time being a head coach so there are some growing pains with that. But he is not learning from his mistakes week in and week out. Just because we were "suppose" to get blown by FSU in FSU doesn't excuse the fact HCSS continues to keep making rookie head coaching mistakes.

 

[longislandcuse]

I'm not questioning you wanting Shafer gone in general, because I realize there are some people who do. But why would TODAY of all games put you over the hump? Why would losing on the road at freaking Florida State, a team that was favored anywhere by between 16-21 points all week, suddenly change your mind? I guess I just don't get why today is really changing things for people. No one expected us to win. We didn't win.

I can understand why people got fed up with USF and Virginia. But playing at Tallahassee? I guess I just don't get that one.

If you constantly underperformed at work but were e a nice guy who tried hard then made a bad decision, maybe you'll be ok...for a while.

Make another bad decision and people take notice.

Make another bad decision and now you're walking on thin ice.

Make bad decisions every day!... Yea, now you should be fired.

I haven't liked Shafer from the get go but I'm answering for those who are finally turning on him. Eventually enough is enough.

Meanwhile, while our Salesman A sells 20 shares a day, Salesman B, C, D and E are selling 100 shares per day with the same leads.

Not sure how many more analogies are needed but Shafer has got to go.

 

[SU68]

If we don't win another game, there is no way you can keep him. 9 straight losses, no way. This board will be unreadable after a loss we all know is coming next week.

And yet people still think we're going to turn it around and pull out 3 wins. Where?

Do you really care if the board is unreadable? We all know that the defense sucks. Scoring 24, 20, and 21 points against ranked teams is pretty good. If you fire Shafer, you fire his entire staff since a new HC will bring in his own people. Are you prepared to lose this recruiting class and start rebuilding for another five years?

 

[dasher]

And I do get that. I guess the thing I'm hung up on is the opponent. If this had come against, say, BC instead of FSU, well, then I'd understand why it might break people. But hey - to each his own.

I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind, it's a fruitless endeavor. All anyone here wants is for SU to be successful.

I also think the failure to close with Washington and Clark has turned people off. You saw the poll numbers for SS fall when Clark's verbal was retracted. Once more, a punch in the gut. Washington and Clark gave us something to look forward to. High SEC type players. At least the ratings and the offers said that. Our hopes were built up. and dashed. Along with the losing, too much to take. And the future with the kids we have looks better, but really, how much better? 6-6? 7-5. We want more.

 

[007]

And I get that it's a pattern people don't like. I guess my question is - there were questionable things in multiple games before this week. So why did FSU push people over the edge? A game where basically everyone expected us to get blown out?

I honestly get the frustration, and I understand why people are pissed about the mistakes, and I understand that people want a change. But it just feels like a weird opponent to choose as the one that finally pushes you over the edge.

I am NOT one of those people. I would guess that today's game just made it more obvious to many who were holding out hope that we are just young.. It's not that people were expecting to beat FSU. I think it's more that people thought (hoped is a better word) that we might be competitive. The noncompetitive showing, combined with the game in and game out poor coaching and time management decisions, combined with the commentators pointing out how poor those decisions are, and a prominent alum openly questioning on air if SS is the man to lead the talent we do have...

We just happened to be playing FSU.

 

[dasher]

Do you really care if the board is unreadable? We all know that the defense sucks. Scoring 24, 20, and 21 points against ranked teams is pretty good. If you fire Shafer, you fire his entire staff since a new HC will bring in his own people. Are you prepared to lose this recruiting class and start rebuilding for another five years?

Yes. It might have been different with Clark and Washington. But we don't have a 4 star kid. the kids that might flip, they can be replaced. Maybe not this year, but would you rather have no long term future?

 

[dasher]

I got an internship at ESPN because of McDonough. He is close and friendly with Ms. Edson and trust me he has a lot of contacts within the SU AD office.

He isn't close with Coyle now but could be in the future. He reads this board and was expressing his opinion as nicely as he could.

Sean by the way, while speaking so nicely about coach mac, used to complain that we got out coached every week. I was in his company when he said this.

 

[TheCusian]

Was willing to give Shafer one more year but after today a change is necessary. The Temple, Memphis and Houston coaches will be available if not gobbled up immediately after the season concludes.

They will be gobbled up.

I'd consider Frost the OC from Oregon and if not him, wait a year.

 

[jekelish]

I also think the failure to close with Washington and Clark has turned people off. You saw the poll numbers for SS fall when Clark's verbal was retracted. Once more, a punch in the gut. Washington and Clark gave us something to look forward to. High SEC type players. At least the ratings and the offers said that. Our hopes were built up. and dashed. Along with the losing, too much to take. And the future with the kids we have looks better, but really, how much better? 6-6? 7-5. We want more.

I still don't hold Washington and Clark against them knowing what happened in the background. But I do understand the frustration there, as well. You know very well I would freaking kill to have that level of talent. But the level of headache involved is unfortunately not something you can control.

And you also know very well I want more too. But I also think you have to get 8 wins before you can start thinking about 10 wins, and I think that with an improved defense this team can get to 8 wins next year. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd like the staff to come back for another year (well, with Reed gone, and maybe one more position coach not carrying his weight - Reed isn't even a particularly noteworthy recruiter so he's bringing nothing to the table), but if there isn't a jump to 7-8 wins in 2016, all bets are off and I'm completely open to a new staff.

 

[007]

They will be gobbled up.

I'd consider Frost the OC from Oregon and if not him, wait a year.

If we could get Frost, YOU would be ok with letting SS go at the end of this year? Can a plague of locust be far behind?

FWIW, I think that Frost will be at the top of a lot of lists.

 

[orangenirvana]

Ever watch a boxing match? The punch that knocks the guy out doesn't appear to be anything more than what he was being hit with for 5 rounds before that. The last one was just the straw that broke the back. How many weeks can we watch the same movie?

Plus you want to think a light bulb will turn on and the head coach will finally learn from his mistakes. Marrone had the same game management issues, but he seemed to gradually get better at it and was actually going for it on 4th down often in the second half of the 2012 season. I don't see Shafer getting better at all. Today proved that his game management may actually be getting worse.

 

[dasher]

I still don't hold Washington and Clark against them knowing what happened in the background. But I do understand the frustration there, as well. You know very well I would freaking kill to have that level of talent. But the level of headache involved is unfortunately not something you can control.

And you also know very well I want more too. But I also think you have to get 8 wins before you can start thinking about 10 wins, and I think that with an improved defense this team can get to 8 wins next year. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd like the staff to come back for another year (well, with Reed gone, and maybe one more position coach not carrying his weight - Reed isn't even a particularly noteworthy recruiter so he's bringing nothing to the table), but if there isn't a jump to 7-8 wins in 2016, all bets are off and I'm completely open to a new staff.

I think you may get your wish. With all of the openings, there seem to be more this year, it might make sense to give him one last year. Plus, we wouldn't be eating two years of his contract. The problem is that what kind of recruiting are we going to get next year with a coach with one more year on his deal?

 

[supp]

I still don't hold Washington and Clark against them knowing what happened in the background. But I do understand the frustration there, as well. You know very well I would freaking kill to have that level of talent. But the level of headache involved is unfortunately not something you can control.

And you also know very well I want more too. But I also think you have to get 8 wins before you can start thinking about 10 wins, and I think that with an improved defense this team can get to 8 wins next year. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd like the staff to come back for another year (well, with Reed gone, and maybe one more position coach not carrying his weight - Reed isn't even a particularly noteworthy recruiter so he's bringing nothing to the table), but if there isn't a jump to 7-8 wins in 2016, all bets are off and I'm completely open to a new staff.

You say this as if everyone else is standing still waiting for Syracuse to catch up in recruiting and developing ACC-level players. They're also recruiting ACC-level players. A little more talent doesn't fix a lot of bad coaching.

 

[jekelish]

I think you may get your wish. With all of the openings, there seem to be more this year, it might make sense to give him one last year. Plus, we wouldn't be eating two years of his contract. The problem is that what kind of recruiting are we going to get next year with a coach with one more year on his deal?

Honestly, I don't think it'll make much of a difference. These kids all know that there's a possibility that he could be gone this year, so at the end of the day, what's the difference between a hot seat coach and a coach with only one year left on his contract?

 

[dasher]

Plus you want to think a light bulb will turn on and the head coach will finally learn from his mistakes. Marrone had the same game management issues, but he seemed to gradually get better at it and was actually going for it on 4th down often in the second half of the 2012 season. I don't see Shafer getting better at all. Today proved that his game management may actually be getting worse.

Very wrong. How can it get worse?

 

[dasher]

Honestly, I don't think it'll make much of a difference. These kids all know that there's a possibility that he could be gone this year, so at the end of the day, what's the difference between a hot seat coach and a coach with only one year left on his contract?

It means nothing to the kids that are here. I'm talking about the kids that we are recruiting next year?

 

[SUbear]

I'm not questioning you wanting Shafer gone in general, because I realize there are some people who do. But why would TODAY of all games put you over the hump? Why would losing on the road at freaking Florida State, a team that was favored anywhere by between 16-21 points all week, suddenly change your mind? I guess I just don't get why today is really changing things for people. No one expected us to win. We didn't win.

I can understand why people got fed up with USF and Virginia. But playing at Tallahassee? I guess I just don't get that one.

It is not that we lost, we all expected that, it was the stupid decisions at the end of the first half. Those decisions are proof that he does not have what it takes to make head coaching decisions.
For instance the time out he called, if he really deemed it necessary, should have been called after letting the clock run for 20 to 25 seconds. It was only second down. If we score as we did FSU has almost no time left, if we did not still time to get one more play and a field goal on forth if necessary. I personally would have not called that timeout, but the manner in which he did it was not a good coaching decision.
Second he allows either by design or poor team descipline an on side kick which gives them field position.
All this adds up to someone not capable of making good head coaching decisions or learning from his previous mistakes.
End of rant.