Happy w/ the win, but puzzled by the "offensive" 2nd half

[swish7]

In college I read a non-fiction book, "Things Fall Apart", by Chinua Achebe. It's been a while, but it was about how the social, political, and cultural structures of an African village "falling apart" when the men of the village...I forget, but it was something like working at a factory in a nearby city.

In the 1st half our offense was a beautifully choreographed ballet of movement, assists, and points. We were finally rebounding and making 3s with abandon. Dirty was mixing it up inside. Keita was not fouling on every possession. MCW was near perfect. All fluid, all nice.

In the 2nd half our offense fell apart. It became a jolting community college level interpretive modern dance about PMS. When we were 17 up, we all could see it start, and knew where it ws going...

Scoop and Dion jacking up 3s early in the shot clock. KJo explicably inexplicably dribbling off his foot. Fair and Fab being taken out of the offense because the ball was not even getting to them. And we all knew where it was going. From 17+ to a dogfight. And JB was visibly reactionless until it was within 4. And instead of changing, he tightened the roster to the ones who were causing the problem.

I know the party line response is "30-1", "BE Champs", and "they simply find ways to win". All that is true and something to be proud of. I'm in happy land. But, you have to wonder was the 2nd half dog fight avoidable? And if so, how?

I hope this thread does not end with a bunch of angry and indignant pollyannatorical dillusions. I'm curious how people felt about the 2nd half meltdown.

A mistake I often make is making an emotional post too soon. People don't get that anything posted right after a game is going to be emotinal. I also often forget to include what the opponent does to us, which often dictates what we do (symptom vs cause).

UConn was lethargic in the 1st half, when compared to their 2nd half intensity. And we predictably and desparately sought the quick answer in the form of the "DAGGER THREE!!". Well, the dagger 3 became a clank, and points the other way.

Think god Burr was half asleep last night, or this one would have been a loss.

That said, fun night (with the live attendees being the exception) and great win.

 

[swish7]

Sorry for the poll. For the last few days, I cannot seem to create a thread. This site is forcing me to create a poll. Is this happening to anybody else?

 

[Banned]

We stopped taking the ball to the hoop. We shot so well in the first half so the guys felt like they could just jack up anything they wanted and it would go... Of course a team can only get good shots in the flow of an offense consisting of off the ball movement and extra passes. We did a lot of settling.

I was also dissapointed in the second half rotation. I felt like MCW and James earned the chance to play in the second half based upon the spark provided in the first, but we all know its not JB's MO to get away from his "Closer" lineup when things get tight.

I was impressed with some things we did when the game got tight. Kjo, Scoop, and Dion all had impressive, strong, and clutch takes to the hoop for scores. Those are the 3 guys that we need to make plays when the game is on the line. You have to feel secure in the fact that all 3 made plays in the clutch.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Fwiw, I made a post with about 5 minutes left in the game titled "JB's worst coached half in recent memory" hitting all of the points you highlighted. It was somehow deleted. I guess it didn't toe the party line.

 

[kuethstheman]

First time I've seen the term " pollyannatorical dillusions" written on this board in a couple days. Probably means I should buy a lottery ticket or something.

Clearly UConn changed their game a lot. Stopped turning it over, ratcheted up the defense, sent everyone to the boards, clogged the middle. If they'd done that in both halves, I think we'd have lost.

But JB's 2nd half non-substitution patterns are pretty puzzling. No guarantee it would have gone any better but it's hard to believe that a little change-up wouldn't have helped.

 

[pfister1]

I thought UConn's defense on our guards tightened up considerably and gave them a lot of trouble. I think when you play really tough defense on our guards our offense stagnates and they oftentimes resort to what you saw on offense through the later part of the second half.

 

[swish7]

Fwiw, I made a post with about 5 minutes left in the game titled "JB's worst coached half in recent memory" hitting all of the points you highlighted. It was somehow deleted. I guess it didn't toe the party line.

Interesting, and unfortunate. I cannot speak for the admins, but maybe they felt it would incite a pollyanna riot. My dramatic titled posts often do just that. Even if the content is tempered.

We got the visibly dispassionate JB last night. Even so he was not visibly doing a lot, he definitely was doing a lot in the 1st half. He did a lot of mixing and matching, subbing, etc. We got up big with MCW, and then Scoop and Dion come back in. UConn must have been like "What!"

In the 2nd half, he subbed little. Scoop and Dion were part of the problem, IMO. Obviously there were part of the solution at the very end. However, this is like giving the arsonist a civic award because they happened to save a kitty from the fire. JB did not act concerned until our huge lead was whittled to 4.

Early in the 2nd half there was plenty of time for a quick hook or two, mix in MCW and JS. MCW is a solid decision maker. And bad decisions led to the meltdown.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Look, no way you go into that building and dont receive blow back from uconn in the second half. it is exactly as i had figured it would be in the second half.

a motivated uconn team will cause any team plenty of problems just based on size and athleticism, let alone the expected drought of syracuse shots falling..which was going to happen at some point in a game.

BUT, this game would never have been that close had BMK not blown that freaking bunnie that ended up resulting in a 5 point swing as uconn then scored a three point play.

why was BMK out there for such a stretch? sure Melo cannot play the entire game, but BMK needed to be removed for some other tallish human being

 

[44cuse]

Fwiw, I made a post with about 5 minutes left in the game titled "JB's worst coached half in recent memory" hitting all of the points you highlighted. It was somehow deleted. I guess it didn't toe the party line.

I saw that. Weird that it was deleted.

44cuse

 

[swish7]

Look, no way you go into that building and dont receive blow back from uconn in the second half. it is exactly as i had figured it would be in the second half.

a motivated uconn team will cause any team plenty of problems just based on size and athleticism, let alone the expected drought of syracuse shots falling..which was going to happen at some point in a game.

BUT, this game would never have been that close had BMK not blown that freaking bunnie that ended up resulting in a 5 point swing as uconn then scored a three point play.

why was BMK out there for such a stretch? sure Melo cannot play the entire game, but BMK needed to be removed for some other tallish human being

IMO, BMK was out there because he played well in the 1st. Also, Fab had not been playing with a lot of intensity.

That was BMKs first mistake in the game, and I agree, it was huge. Triche did it twice in the USF game.

 

[Ghost]

I hope this thread does not end with a bunch of angry and indignant pollyannatorical dillusions. I'm curious how people felt about the 2nd half meltdown.

 

[Ghost]

I think of late it seems like whenever we get a good run going we seem to devolve into more and more one on one play. Not sure why it happens, and maybe it is just that the opposing teams tighten up a bit on D, or shut down the options that were popping up during the run, but it is a tad disconcerting at times.

We had a couple players showing off their mid-range games, CJ and KJO early on, and then it seemed like we started popping off quick jumpers and takings lots of drives. That aspect of the game completely disappeared. It isn't a big deal for a possession or two but at a certain point it seems like we go from making 3-5 passes before getting a good shot, to making 0-2 passes and forcing the action.

 

[Marsh01]

Good take. I was also perplexed at the offensive offense in the second half. I think part of it was that Uconn played much better perimeter defense in the second half. We also fell in love with the three point shot and took a fair amount of bad ones. We also didnt get a lot of fast break points (or opportunities for that matter) due to our defensive performance.

I am not going to say we have no flaws because clearly we do. I am amazed however how we continue to make plays down the stretch to win game after game when it looks like we will get beat.

Uconn may not be a great "team" but they clearly have NBA talent. Winning in that building, with that atmosphere whith a BE title on the line and Uconn desperately needing a win is very impressive.

I have said this before regardless of what deficiencies we have we have put ourselves in the best possible situation heading into the NCAA tournament. Lets hope that our draw reflects that.

 

[pfister1]

IMO, BMK was out there because he played well in the 1st. Also, Fab had not been playing with a lot of intensity.

That was BMKs first mistake in the game, and I agree, it was huge. Triche did it twice in the USF game.

Remember also that this was a real up and down game (lots of running end to end), was it lack of intensity or a 270lb. 7'0" running on fumes and needing a sub.

 

[dasher]

easy answer. We aren't that talented. In terms of pure talent, what starting 5 would you want? Ours or UConns?

 

[SourShoes]

Interesting, and unfortunate. I cannot speak for the admins, but maybe they felt it would incite a pollyanna riot. My dramatic titled posts often do just that. Even if the content is tempered.

We got the visibly dispassionate JB last night. Even so he was not visibly doing a lot, he definitely was doing a lot in the 1st half. He did a lot of mixing and matching, subbing, etc. We got up big with MCW, and then Scoop and Dion come back in. UConn must have been like "What!"

In the 2nd half, he subbed little. Scoop and Dion were part of the problem, IMO. Obviously there were part of the solution at the very end. However, this is like giving the arsonist a civic award because they happened to save a kitty from the fire. JB did not act concerned until our huge lead was whittled to 4.

Early in the 2nd half there was plenty of time for a quick hook or two, mix in MCW and JS. MCW is a solid decision maker. And bad decisions led to the meltdown.

The admins will delete anything that doesnt fit into a specific agenda. If you know that going in youll be fine. Just dont be surprised when a post disppears

 

[Sgt Cuse]

The second half for me was a little bit of a letdown from the first. Of course, nice to hold on and get a victory!

But after the first half my orange dream sequence was within reach. The energy and massive subs that I like to see so much. When it got to up 17 or after the first 4 mins of the second half, I wish JB had done some massive subbing again. If it didn't work out, he could have taken them out. But how much better could the strategy have worked in the first half to intice him to use it in the seond?

If it did work, in my scenario he could have gained the confidence to continue using it. I would have loved to see it used against Lville. But now, I think the rotation will be tight against Lville. JB would love to win this, a little more than some of the others I think.

I do believe we will see good subbing at the BET, at least in the first halves. But if we do it and it works well, I would like to see JB have the confidence to employ the strategy in the second half. He could still have his top lineup in to close out the game.

It is difficult to argue this point too much though. Because I am dealing with "what if's". And I don't think that increasing the use of the bench would not have been worth the loss. And a loss could have occurred.

As for the other point, when someone starts talking about worst coaching performances after a win, get a grip. The terminology is terrible after a big time away victory to wrap up the Big East. You term it "worst coaching" ? Save it for a loss, and see if you can beat Igor and Bluecurtain to start the thread. I'm sorry if you lost your bet, but JB is not coaching to beat the point spread.

 

[billsin01]

In college I read a non-fiction book, "Things Fall Apart", by Chinua Achebe. It's been a while, but it was about how the social, political, and cultural structures of an African village "falling apart" when the men of the village...I forget, but it was something like working at a factory in a nearby city.

In the 1st half our offense was a beautifully choreographed ballet of movement, assists, and points. We were finally rebounding and making 3s with abandon. Dirty was mixing it up inside. Keita was not fouling on every possession. MCW was near perfect. All fluid, all nice.

In the 2nd half our offense fell apart. It became a jolting community college level interpretive modern dance about PMS. When we were 17 up, we all could see it start, and knew where it ws going...

Scoop and Dion jacking up 3s early in the shot clock. KJo explicably inexplicably dribbling off his foot. Fair and Fab being taken out of the offense because the ball was not even getting to them. And we all knew where it was going. From 17+ to a dogfight. And JB was visibly reactionless until it was within 4. And instead of changing, he tightened the roster to the ones who were causing the problem.

I know the party line response is "30-1", "BE Champs", and "they simply find ways to win". All that is true and something to be proud of. I'm in happy land. But, you have to wonder was the 2nd half dog fight avoidable? And if so, how?

I hope this thread does not end with a bunch of angry and indignant pollyannatorical dillusions. I'm curious how people felt about the 2nd half meltdown.

A mistake I often make is making an emotional post too soon. People don't get that anything posted right after a game is going to be emotinal. I also often forget to include what the opponent does to us, which often dictates what we do (symptom vs cause).

UConn was lethargic in the 1st half, when compared to their 2nd half intensity. And we predictably and desparately sought the quick answer in the form of the "DAGGER THREE!!". Well, the dagger 3 became a clank, and points the other way.

Think god Burr was half asleep last night, or this one would have been a loss.

That said, fun night (with the live attendees being the exception) and great win.

Good post. I can't really imagine anyone could disagree with the craptasticness of our second-half offensive output. I tend to think finishing on a couple of good opportunities could have stemmed the tide to a degree, but it is puzzling. I think it basically comes down to simply not being that great a half-court team. Are we a really, really good team? Yes. Historically good for this program? Yes. But it doesn't mean you don't have weaknesses and consistently getting good looks in the half-court and finishing them is not one.

Scoop has had a phenomenal year -- and I'm generally among his staunchest defenders -- but he shot two jumpers in the 2nd that were literally abhorrent (25+ on the clock and he was defended well on both) and KJ jacked a 3 with 27 seconds on the clock when he didn't get his feet set. Just bad.

Oh, and the "Things Fall Apart" reference cracked me up. My buddies and I still -- to this day -- use that as a way of describing a girl who looks pretty good in clothes but probably wouldn't look quite as nice without them. Or a girl who hasn't aged well. Completely misogynistic I suppose, but funny nonetheless.

 

[OttoMets]

Good post. I can't really imagine anyone could disagree with the craptasticness of our second-half offensive output. I tend to think finishing on a couple of good opportunities could have stemmed the tide to a degree, but it is puzzling. I think it basically comes down to simply not being that great a half-court team. Are we a really, really good team? Yes. Historically good for this program? Yes. But it doesn't mean you don't have weaknesses and consistently getting good looks in the half-court and finishing them is not one.

Scoop has had a phenomenal year -- and I'm generally among his staunchest defenders -- but he shot two jumpers in the 2nd that were literally abhorrent (25+ on the clock and he was defended well on both) and KJ jacked a 3 with 27 seconds on the clock when he didn't get his feet set. Just bad.

Too many contested forces on jumpers in the second half. We didn't need those.

Still, if Keita finishes his wide-open layup and Joseph doesn't blow that easy layup on the inbounds lob, UConn never gets back into the game. (If Boatright gets called for those two checks that forced Joseph and Scoop turnovers, same deal.)

But really, the second-stringers could've obviated any need for improvement in those areas. Boeheim's deer-in-the-headlights substitution freeze was crucial for UConn. I can't believe that a good, longtime poster like SeattleCuse gets censored for making such an (accurate) observation.

 

[DoctorBombay]

easy answer. We aren't that talented. In terms of pure talent, what starting 5 would you want? Ours or UConns?

 

[Knicks411]

I am of two minds with this.

First of all, agreed with Otto, there were some awful awful shots. I think Scoop was the chief perpetrator, those are just really stupid shots and as a 5th year senior he should know better. I don't want to kill him too much because he has been great this year, but you need to play smart. And yeah, that Keita play was brutal. First, he doesn't catch the ball cleanly, then he blows the layup. I believe Rak got a few minutes at C in the second half, and I think JB is beginning to realize he can't really rely on BMK for major minutes. Definitely would've liked to have seen MCW get some run in the second half, James got a few minutes but I'm sure there is a good argument for giving him a little more.

That being said, just because we were up 14 points or whatever on UConn at the half doesn't mean we have to blow them out. They were obviously going to make a run on us; we are a better team than they are, but they have some good players and they were at home in front of a raucous crowd; to think we were going to just hold them off the entire way isn't realistic. They made their run, and if we convert a couple of easy plays (chief among them the BMK play) then they probably never get it closer than 4 or 5 points.

 

[swish7]

The admins will delete anything that doesnt fit into a specific agenda. If you know that going in youll be fine. Just dont be surprised when a post disppears

Nah, the admins typically are not trigger happy. They usually only delete repetitive and obnoxious posts. Surprised it would happen to Orlando as he has a good track record.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think that the missed bunnies played a big role. I also think that Uconn was handchecking and playing overly physical with our guards trying to force them into making errant passes which worked well. Another issue I saw was a lack of basic use of the screen. In the first half we did a great job using screens by our bigs to get to the rim or get into the lane. In the second half scoop/dion were not as decisive when using the screen and allowed Uconn to recover too easily. That combined with some missed bunnies really stalled our offense significantly. If the game was called more tightly we could have seen many more free throws and our guards would have had a lot more room to operate. Much like USF .. we were doing some good things but Uconn was outplaying us on both ends ... playing like a desperate squad who is familiar enough with our system to be dangerous.

So far this season the only vulnerability I have seen was in NYC when the Bernie scandal was fresh off the press and our guys had to play their first big OOC games of the season in the midst of a media nightmare, the loss of Fab that deemed us without our gamechanging center, the shooting slump during conference play, and the struggles with desperate squads familiar with our system. All but one of those challenges resulted in a win. I am really excited to see us get into the tourney. I have not seen a PG all season that has the confidence and quarterbacking ability to attack the zone without having seen it before. The one team I don't want to see in our bracket is Wichita State. Add Wisconsin to that as well. Even with that said and the struggles we are discussing in this thread we are well positioned and battle tested to make the final four this year. KJO and scoop are playing above levels from last year and CJ/Melo are frontcourt monsters. Dion/Triche are the x factor production while Baye/James give us depth. MCW is insurance and high quality at that.

 

[IthacaMatt]

In college I read a non-fiction book, "Things Fall Apart", by Chinua Achebe. It's been a while, but it was about how the social, political, and cultural structures of an African village "falling apart" when the men of the village...I forget, but it was something like working at a factory in a nearby city.

In the 1st half our offense was a beautifully choreographed ballet of movement, assists, and points. We were finally rebounding and making 3s with abandon. Dirty was mixing it up inside. Keita was not fouling on every possession. MCW was near perfect. All fluid, all nice.

In the 2nd half our offense fell apart. It became a jolting community college level interpretive modern dance about PMS. When we were 17 up, we all could see it start, and knew where it ws going...

Scoop and Dion jacking up 3s early in the shot clock. KJo explicably inexplicably dribbling off his foot. Fair and Fab being taken out of the offense because the ball was not even getting to them. And we all knew where it was going. From 17+ to a dogfight. And JB was visibly reactionless until it was within 4. And instead of changing, he tightened the roster to the ones who were causing the problem.

I know the party line response is "30-1", "BE Champs", and "they simply find ways to win". All that is true and something to be proud of. I'm in happy land. But, you have to wonder was the 2nd half dog fight avoidable? And if so, how?

I hope this thread does not end with a bunch of angry and indignant pollyannatorical dillusions. I'm curious how people felt about the 2nd half meltdown.

A mistake I often make is making an emotional post too soon. People don't get that anything posted right after a game is going to be emotinal. I also often forget to include what the opponent does to us, which often dictates what we do (symptom vs cause).

UConn was lethargic in the 1st half, when compared to their 2nd half intensity. And we predictably and desparately sought the quick answer in the form of the "DAGGER THREE!!". Well, the dagger 3 became a clank, and points the other way.

Think god Burr was half asleep last night, or this one would have been a loss.

That said, fun night (with the live attendees being the exception) and great win.

Although I agree that this happens sometimes, Swish, and you would like to see him keep playing the bench kids more, to keep the starters under pressure to do well. But there are 2 things - UConn deserves credit because they are a very talented team, and #2, our guys didn't really mess up too much during UConn's run. There weren't a terrible number of turnovers, altho 2 or 3 are memorable. Even tho they out-rebounded us in the 2nd half, we kept it close and got a lot of important ones. I felt like we were in control for a large part of the come back, and even when they got close and tied, we did tend to get good shots and get to the rim a lot late. I thought it was pretty good execution against a good team, their recent record notwithstanding. No surprise that we got UConn's best shot, after we blew them out late last time.

 

[Victory Lap]

BUT, this game would never have been that close had BMK not blown that freaking bunnie that ended up resulting in a 5 point swing as uconn then scored a three point play.

This^^^^^^. That 5-point swing was the first time this season where I actually started getting nervous despite having a full squad (the ND game wasn't nerve-wracking, just disappointing). Still, I am enjoying the underlying confidence I have in this team as I watch most games. This team has earned it's wins.