has anybody

[DoctorBombay]

Billy Owens was Melo without the killer instinct, IMO.
He had a great all-around individual game, all the physical tools, could do everything well & was considered "Magic Johnson-like" in his ability to handle and pass for his size. But he was a little too subdued for my taste and worked better as a supporting actor, instead of a leading man. The NCAAT flame-outs being a clear example.
Melo took games over when we absolutely needed him to, even in losses. I remember the game at UConn where he seemed to be everywhere at once. We lost the game but Melo brung it...as usual.
Billy Owens never had that 4th gear, IMO- I kept waiting for him to consistently dominate, but he always seemed more comfortable in the "letting the game come to him" scenario. You'd look up and Owens would have all the stats- but they'd be the quietest 20 pts, 10 rbs, 6 assists you'd ever see, and not enough in the CRUCIAL moments of the game when you really NEEDED them. JMHO

 

[longtimefan]

Billy didn't play senior year. He went in the draft early because of probation. It was his junior year he put up something like 25 ppg and 10 rebounds a game, alongside Dave Johnson, who also put up about 20 ppg. It's such a shame they flamed out in the post-season that year, or Billy would have a much better legacy. Johnson, of course, made the jumper over Morning to win us the Big East championship, when that was the only trophy we could play for the following year.

The Johnson-jumper-over-Mourning game actually led to the freakish loss to UMass in the NCAA's (Hopkins bloodiest game in a bloody career). The probation year, we lost to SHall in the BET finals by 30.

 

[senorpalmer]

The Johnson-jumper-over-Mourning game actually led to the freakish loss to UMass in the NCAA's (Hopkins bloodiest game in a bloody career). The probation year, we lost to SHall in the BET finals by 30.

Correct. Matt was off by a year. Probation is not what caused Billy to leave early. He was ready to go and ended up as the third pick in the draft, which was something of a shocker as kenny anderson snuck in ahead of him at #2, surprising many and squashing a would-be reunion with former teammate dc in jersey.

In this day and age, Billy goes pro after his freshman year and is still an easy lottery pick.

 

[MGP]

Besides the 4 state championships Owens had and MVP of the McDonald's game as well as one of the top 2 HS recruits, we can only hope Roberson achieves what Owens did (personal, not team):

Big East rookie team
1st team all BE soph, junior and senior seasons
BE POY in junior or senior year
1st team AA senior season
3rd pick in the draft
NBA all rookie team
10 years in the NBA
Played twice for USA team

If not for knee injuries after his 3rd year in the NBA, he probably would have had a better NBA career. The above isn't fair to compare Roberson to.


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Billy only played 3 years at SU - no senior season...

 

[rrlbees]

Billy only played 3 years at SU - no senior season...

Yep


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[MGP]

Billy only played 3 years at SU - no senior season...

Yep


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already noted. sorry bees - move along, nothing to see here ;P

 

[rrlbees]

already noted. sorry bees - move along, nothing to see here ;P

I was going to mention you were the 3rd person to have reminded me of that fact.


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[igor]

billy's the best i'd ever seen. that's why I suggested him. I did know something then that I know now. I didn't know that a player could get significantly better at an advanced age with work. isiah and magic, both suspect shooters developed to be outstanding shooters in their 20's. when billy was a junior he was waiting for the draft in Syracuse. I went to practice early. billy and i played one on one and then he shot around as I fed him. he took his shirt off. he was not cut. here's a kid waiting for millions with worse muscle tone then me. he looked like a tavern leaguer. I didn't know what somebody like LeBron, Carmelo chris, or kobe looked like then. only body builders looked like that. I now understand u need talent but u also need hard work too. not only hard work, but meaningful work. steve Thompson is the hardest worker ever at su. unfortuneately he spent most of it practicing the wrong things​

 

[DoctorBombay]

Billy had all the tools & maybe Igor's right, w/ a little more focused work he might've evolved into a truly great player.
He came along when everyone was looking for "the next Magic Johnson"- a big man who can handle, pass, score, rebound & start the break. But the old cliche is "you can't teach heart", and that's where I believe he was lacking the most.
Not necessarily heart, but that personal drive to succeed, a' la Magic, Bird, Karl Malone, LeBron, combined with all that talent and you get an all-timer.
If he'd worked as hard as say a Rick Jackson, IMO, Billy would've been unstoppable. As it was he was already a great player when fully healthy.

 

[sufandu]

Here's all anyone needs to know about how good Billy Owens was...

His freshman year at 'Cuse, the Orange already had upperclassmen studs at SF and PF in Stevie Thompson and Derrick Coleman respectively.

Owens showed up and was so good, he pushed DC to center and averaged 13 pts and 7 rbs in 32 min per game as a frosh PF.

Let me repeat that: Owens was so good, he pushed Syracuse's best all time power forward to a new position.

As for Roberson, he's got CJ Fair and Grant ahead of him at the 3 & 4 spots and I'll literally be shocked if he gets more than 1o-12 mins a game this season.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Coleman was sucked into the black hole that was the center position after Seikaly's graduation more than pushed there by Billy Owen's arrival. It didn't make sense to play Richard Manning, Dave Siock, or Erik Rogers (who?) over Stevie Thompson or Matt Roe (one of them would've been the odd man out, probably Roe, at least as the starter), so Stevie, Billy, and DC all slid up a position to keep the most talent on the floor. When Leron Ellis arrived the next year it allowed everyone to go back to their natural positions.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Billy Owens was Melo without the killer instinct, IMO.
He had a great all-around individual game, all the physical tools, could do everything well & was considered "Magic Johnson-like" in his ability to handle and pass for his size. But he was a little too subdued for my taste and worked better as a supporting actor, instead of a leading man. The NCAAT flame-outs being a clear example.
Melo took games over when we absolutely needed him to, even in losses. I remember the game at UConn where he seemed to be everywhere at once. We lost the game but Melo brung it...as usual.
Billy Owens never had that 4th gear, IMO- I kept waiting for him to consistently dominate, but he always seemed more comfortable in the "letting the game come to him" scenario. You'd look up and Owens would have all the stats- but they'd be the quietest 20 pts, 10 rbs, 6 assists you'd ever see, and not enough in the CRUCIAL moments of the game when you really NEEDED them. JMHO

Nailed it. Great post.

 

[leftytg]

billy's the best i'd ever seen. that's why I suggested him. I did know something then that I know now. I didn't know that a player could get significantly better at an advanced age with work. isiah and magic, both suspect shooters developed to be outstanding shooters in their 20's. when billy was a junior he was waiting for the draft in Syracuse. I went to practice early. billy and i played one on one and then he shot around as I fed him. he took his shirt off. he was not cut. here's a kid waiting for millions with worse muscle tone then me. he looked like a tavern leaguer. I didn't know what somebody like LeBron, Carmelo chris, or kobe looked like then. only body builders looked like that. I now understand u need talent but u also need hard work too. not only hard work, but meaningful work. steve Thompson is the hardest worker ever at su. unfortuneately he spent most of it practicing the wrong things​

it is an aside, but as a Celtic fan I just can't help myself. Magic Johnson was never a particularly good shooter, let alone "outstanding" shooter.

His 3point % in his 20's (and yes, I realize 3point % doesn't entirely encapsulate the quality of one's "shooting" but it is a big indicator of one's shooting ability).
Age 20: .226
Age 21: .176
Age 22: .207
Age 23: 0 (that's right, he went 0-21 on the season)
Age 24: .207
Age 25: .189
Age 26: .233
Age 27: .205
Age 28: .196
Age 29: .314

 

[igor]

the only threes magic took were throws as the shot clock wound down. he was a great shooter from 20 in.

 

[LennX6]

Billy had all the tools & maybe Igor's right, w/ a little more focused work he might've evolved into a truly great player.
He came along when everyone was looking for "the next Magic Johnson"- a big man who can handle, pass, score, rebound & start the break. But the old cliche is "you can't teach heart", and that's where I believe he was lacking the most.
Not necessarily heart, but that personal drive to succeed, a' la Magic, Bird, Karl Malone, LeBron, combined with all that talent and you get an all-timer.
If he'd worked as hard as say a Rick Jackson, IMO, Billy would've been unstoppable. As it was he was already a great player when fully healthy.

You know though, Billy was hurt a lot. Yes, more likely than not, conditioning did play a role in the injuries. The guy stuck around and hung around and played on FA contracts so there must have been some heart there, you know?
If you look at his NBA stats m I bet they look a bit better than you thought they would. Not good for the "next Magic" but 14 pts, 8 boards per, certainly would be useful on the right team. He was defeated by perception from the start. On draft day he was perceived as being whomever drafted him's "franchise player". He (when healthy) would be a great third option on a playoff caliber team (which avoided Billy , 11 playoff games, 3 series in 11 years.) Not a resume that gets them setting them up a new pedestal in Springfield. You're at the chicken and the egg argument. Did the teams weakness drag down Billy or did he contribute mightily to their awfulness? My take, unable to tell. The injury he suffered in his 3rd year, kind of stalled him where he was.

 

[Toga]

No, he doesn't have that kind of outside shooting touch or passing game. Roberson is like a fitter version of Ryan Blackwell, maybe a bit bouncier and bit better shot blocker. He has an OK outside shot, but scores most of his baskets around the rim, where he is crafty. But that's about what his build is like - a freshman/sophomore Blackwell, although he seems to be still growing a bit.

To me, Grant looks like he could turn into another John Wallace. That's whose game his game reminds me of. McCullough looks like Charles Smith (Pitt/Knicks) and Roberson, well, maybe he's better than Ryan Blackwell, but Ryan was a borderline Mickey Dees, top 30 player.

Charles Smith - doppleganger

No, he doesn't have that kind of outside shooting touch or passing game. Roberson is like a fitter version of Ryan Blackwell, maybe a bit bouncier and bit better shot blocker. He has an OK outside shot, but scores most of his baskets around the rim, where he is crafty. But that's about what his build is like - a freshman/sophomore Blackwell, although he seems to be still growing a bit.

To me, Grant looks like he could turn into another John Wallace. That's whose game his game reminds me of. McCullough looks like Charles Smith (Pitt/Knicks) and Roberson, well, maybe he's better than Ryan Blackwell, but Ryan was a borderline Mickey Dees, top 30 player.

Yes - Charles Smith doppelganger

 

[AZOrange]

Kind of like my dads fishing story's, the fish keep getting bigger and bigger.

Owens was superb at cuse. He was a lot like melo tool wisetool wise

 

[anomander]

Ok, thought so. Billy put together one hell of a three year career here. If Roberson has a similar career, we are in for a treat. Billy seamlessly fit in to a team that had big time stars, DC, Sherm and Stevie.

Unfortunately for us if Roberson is as good as Billy we will only get to see him for 1 year because he will be a lottery pick next year

 

[RF2044]

This.

The only thing this thread is teaching me is that people are apparently only thinking about the often injured, Rock and Jock Basketball version of Billy Owens.

The dude was a freaking stud. If he hadn't had about a dozen knee surgeries people would remember his pro career much, much differently.

If he had stayed for his senior season he'd be at or near the top of every career stat category in SU history. Hell, he already is in the top 10 in almost every category. Billy Owens is absolutely on the Mount Rushmore of Syracuse hoops, if you ask me (players only, coaches excluded).

Tend to agree. Billy is probably one of the top 5 players in program history, which is saying something.

He was that good.