Has Carmelo Worn Out His Welcome in New York?

[Col. Bleep]

http://nypost.com/2014/12/12/carmelo-anthony-will-consider-waiving-no-trade-clause-source/

A shoot first guy has to hit his big shots.

 

[Deano]

He messed up by not going to Chicago. Tom T. could have helped him change his style of play and be more of a team player.

 

[SmilinBob]

He got his money now we'll see if he can get the right team. Could be a win win for Melo.

 

[Brooky03]

a) I don't like the idea that he's not a 'team player'. His job is to score, so that's what he does. Kobe does the same thing, except he's had much better talent around him and coaching, so he has the Titles to shut people up. Yeah, Melo's defense isn't the greatest but he doesn't just fan on guys all game long and let what is usually the best scorer on the other team drop 30+ on a consistent basis. He's also a good rebounder.

b) This is a garbage year for the Knicks and they knew it was going to be. They are going to have a ton of cap space available next season and they can finally dump Amare. With a legit PG currently, some decent young talent (Shumpert and Hardaway if he stays), and Melo, all the Knicks need to do is grab a good Center in free agency and they have something going. Heck, they might even be able to grab a good Center and a true PF.

 

[Knicks411]

the trade kicker is gonna make a trade hard.

a) I don't like the idea that he's not a 'team player'. His job is to score, so that's what he does.Kobe does the same thing, except he's had much better talent around him and coaching, so he has the Titles to shut people up.

Also cause he's not that good at the other stuff; I don't think any team would not want him to pass or defend if he was better at it.
Kobe was also a really good defender for a while; though he made all defense years after he desevred to.

 

[Brooky03]

the trade kicker is gonna make a trade hard.



Also cause he's not that good at the other stuff; I don't think any team would not want him to pass or defend if he was better at it.
Kobe was also a really good defender for a while; though he made all defense years after he desevred to.

I know Kobe was a good defender, that's why I made the comment about Melo's defense. He's a scorer on a team with downright terrible offensive threats, so he shoots... a lot.

His passing is no worse than Kobe's (in fact, I'd say it's better) but who does he have to pass to? Hardaway, so he can miss another 3 pointer? Shumpert, so he can drive and fall over while throwing up something wild? Amare, so he can go into isolation just like Melo? JR Smith, so he can dribble around for 5 minutes and throw up a fadeaway?

Also, it's worth pointing out that nobody on the Knicks should be complaining about anybody else's defense, except Shumpert. They're all bad at it, and I'm not even convinced Melo is the worst.

 

[longislandcuse]

I find it funny that people rip into Melo for getting mad at THjr yet zero mention was made last night when Jeremy Lamb had KD posted up on Dellevedova and instead of lobbing it to KD for an easy score reversed it, after the play ended KD glared at Lamb and screamed "Throw me the ****ing ball".

Players get heated with each other. This isn't just a NY thing.

As far as the team. First off the triangle sucks and second off the players running the triangle suck. This year was pegged to be a struggle but I don't think anyone envisioned this. Not even Lebron could make this work right now.

 

[Brooky03]

I find it funny that people rip into Melo for getting mad at THjr yet zero mention was made last night when Jeremy Lamb had KD posted up on Dellevedova and instead of lobbing it to KD for an easy score reversed it, after the play ended KD glared at Lamb and screamed "Throw me the ****ing ball".

Players get heated with each other. This isn't just a NY thing.

As far as the team. First off the triangle sucks and second off the players running the triangle suck. This year was pegged to be a struggle but I don't think anyone envisioned this. Not even Lebron could make this work right now.

I love your first point. All superstars get mad at their teammates at some point and vice versa. There is definitely a pecking order, and any issues get magnified greatly during a losing streak. The finger pointing does nobody any good, though.

The team just needs to make it through this season without anybody demanding a trade, so management can dismantle it next season and bring in the peices they need.

 

[SUintheVille]

It will take some time if Melo is patient, but I think Phil Jackson will take the action necessary sooner rather than later to turn the Knicks around. Now, that may or may not include Melo.

 

[sufandu]

He messed up by not going to Chicago. Tom T. could have helped him change his style of play and be more of a team player.

If he chose to let him. I think part of Melo's problem is that he doesn't see the need to change his style.

 

[sufandu]

It will take some time if Melo is patient, but I think Phil Jackson will take the action necessary sooner rather than later to turn the Knicks around. Now, that may or may not include Melo.

But how much time will it take? It's likely he doesn't have that much time left in his prime. He's as old as Paul Pierce was when the Celtics traded for Garnett and Allen. If "some time" isn't soon, he may see his window close. Maybe not to win a championship, but to be the main guy on a championship team.

 

[pfister1]

If he chose to let him. I think part of Melo's problem is that he doesn't see the need to change his style.

Apparently the Knicks didn't see a need for Melo to change his style, they gave him a huge contract to play that style. You ask young guys to change their style or old guys on their way out. If you're paying a guy a max contract and its on the hope that he's going to do something different than he's done to get to the point that earned him that max contract, you probably need new management.

Melo is a ten year veteran, the organization knows what he brings to the table and what he doesn't. It's up to them to add some players around him that compliment that style and allow the Knicks to seriously challenge opponents.

 

[sufandu]

I know Kobe was a good defender, that's why I made the comment about Melo's defense. He's a scorer on a team with downright terrible offensive threats, so he shoots... a lot.

His passing is no worse than Kobe's (in fact, I'd say it's better) but who does he have to pass to? Hardaway, so he can miss another 3 pointer? Shumpert, so he can drive and fall over while throwing up something wild? Amare, so he can go into isolation just like Melo? JR Smith, so he can dribble around for 5 minutes and throw up a fadeaway?

Also, it's worth pointing out that nobody on the Knicks should be complaining about anybody else's defense, except Shumpert. They're all bad at it, and I'm not even convinced Melo is the worst.

That's the thing, it was within his power to change who he could've been passing to. He could've been passing to Derek Rose, Aaron Brooks, Mike Dunleavy, etc. He chose to stay with the guys he doesn't want to pass to. He could've been coached by a proven respected coach instead of by a guy learning on the job.

 

[newmexicuse]

I am both a Melo fan and a Knick fan.

Bottom line for me is that Melo is simply not a Jordan or Bryantesque level talent. As such the triangle will never work in NY as it did in Chicago or LA. I think when Phil signed Melo he hoped otherwise because re-signing Melo was Phil's best option at that time. It's tough to have a NY team wo a superstar.

Going forward a few things are apparent to me:

1. I thought this knick team had enough overall talent to at least be a playoff team w Melo. Pretty clearly that was a wrong assessment. Trading Chandler was a huge error if they wanted to make the playoffs this season. I thought the trade was OK as a cap trade especially since Felton was included, but it has definitely hurt more on the court than i was anticipating.

2. Knicks could be heading for high lottery pick. Add that & a couple of good trades and/or free agent signings and they could be a playoff team next season.

3. If Melo really wants to win a title, he has to understand that it will not happen in NY, not at least during his peak seasons.

4. As much as I love the concept of Melo in NY, no amount of rationalization can lead anybody to say it is a match made in heaven, at least not at this point in time.

5. I would have no issue w the Knicks trading Melo for some sort of a package of three or four solid young players with potential and/or #1 picks if such a package is available. I would not let Melo leave for less.

 

[Brooky03]

That's the thing, it was within his power to change who he could've been passing to. He could've been passing to Derek Rose, Aaron Brooks, Mike Dunleavy, etc. He chose to stay with the guys he doesn't want to pass to. He could've been coached by a proven respected coach instead of by a guy learning on the job.

Yes, in the short term he absolutely could have done that. It's clear, though, that Phil Jackson sold Melo on the future of the team. The Knicks knew they were going to be really bad this year, everybody knew a playoff spot was not within the realm of posibility. We'll see next year how it all turns out.

Also, I would bet money that Melo doesn't want to share the spotlight with another superstar who's already established on the team Melo would be going to. He's a Batman, not a Robin.



EDIT: Maybe not everybody believed the Knicks were going to suck this year, but that was the consensus amoung my small circle of Knicks fans. We didn't think they would suck this much, but we had a feeling they wouldn't be good.

 

[sufandu]

Apparently the Knicks didn't see a need for Melo to change his style, they gave him a huge contract to play that style. You ask young guys to change their style or old guys on their way out. If you're paying a guy a max contract and its on the hope that he's going to do something different than he's done to get to the point that earned him that max contract, you probably need new management.

Melo is a ten year veteran, the organization knows what he brings to the table and what he doesn't. It's up to them to add some players around him that compliment that style and allow the Knicks to seriously challenge opponents.

Just because they're paying him, doesn't mean they don't want him to change his style. When Phil Jackson had Tex Winter incorporate the triangle offense in Chicago it was specifically to get Jordan to change his style by passing more and shooting less. If Jordan can be asked to change his style and shoot less, it's not above Melo to do the same.

 

[sufandu]

Yes, in the short term he absolutely could have done that. It's clear, though, that Phil Jackson sold Melo on the future of the team. The Knicks knew they were going to be really bad this year, everybody knew a playoff spot was not within the realm of posibility. We'll see next year how it all turns out.

Also, I would bet money that Melo doesn't want to share the spotlight with another superstar who's already established on the team Melo would be going to. He's a Batman, not a Robin.

Obviously we'll have to wait to see how things turn out. Hopefully, Melo isn't too old by the time Phil works his plan, if he is able to work his plan. There's no guarantee of that. Every championship he ever won had at least 1 of the top 10 players of all time on it. Melo isn't that.

As to your second point, if that's the case, it's plain stupid. Some guy that's unwilling to check his own ego to win a championship doesn't deserve to win one.

 

[Brooky03]

Obviously we'll have to wait to see how things turn out. Hopefully, Melo isn't too old by the time Phil works his plan, if he is able to work his plan. There's no guarantee of that. Every championship he ever won had at least 1 of the top 10 players of all time on it. Melo isn't that.

As to your second point, if that's the case, it's plain stupid. Some guy that's unwilling to check his own ego to win a championship doesn't deserve to win one.

Jordan didn't deserve to win one then? I know he had Pippen and a lot of other good players around him, but there is no way I could ever see Jordan leaving to team up with another superstar so he could win Titles.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Jordan didn't deserve to win one then? I know he had Pippen and a lot of other good players around him, but there is no way I could ever see Jordan leaving to team up with another superstar so he could win Titles.

Jordan would have bolted if 10 years into his career he was a struggling one-man-show without a title. Takeaway Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Catwright, Rodman, Kerr, Armstrong, Hodges from the early and late 90s teams and it's not hard to imagine.

 

[Brooky03]

Jordan would have bolted if 10 years into his career he was a struggling one-man-show without a title. Takeaway Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Catwright, Rodman, Kerr, Armstrong, Hodges from the early and late 90s teams and it's not hard to imagine.

He wouldn't have bolted to play second fiddle to superstar already established on another team. His ego, which is what made him great, wouldn't have allowed it.

 

[Eagles20]

I definitely agree with those who acknowledged Melo style of play. You can see it the past two years that he just doesn't trust his teammates. It's not like he doesn't pass out of double teams, it just becomes frustrating when his teammates can't make a shot. Most nights he's doubled every time he catches it in the post or foul line extended with a third defender shaded over. It's becoming impossible in NY for him to shoot a decent percentage with the attention he gets. Lebron and durant shoot higher percentages because they can't be doubled consistently like melo does.

In my opinion two things I see that frustrate me the most in his game are:

His help side defense is non existent. He never comes over to cut off dribble penetration when a guard gets beat up top. It's really hard defending him there, but his on the ball defense has always been better than people give him credit for.

The second is...he's the kind of guy who fans on setting screens on purpose to get the ball on the roll or fade. At some point you have to be a better teammate and actually set the screen to free up the guy with the ball. I'd be pretty pissed as a teammate too after that.

 

[sufandu]

Jordan didn't deserve to win one then? I know he had Pippen and a lot of other good players around him, but there is no way I could ever see Jordan leaving to team up with another superstar so he could win Titles.

What are you talking about? He checked his ego when he shot the ball less and allowed the team to take on more. Had Jordan been on a sucky team and refused to move when given the chance simply because he thought he might have to play second fiddle, then yes he wouldn't have deserved one. But your attempt at an argument makes no sense, since anywhere Jordan went he would've been top dog.

 

[Brooky03]

What are you talking about? He checked his ego when he shot the ball less and allowed the team to take on more. Had Jordan been on a sucky team and refused to move when given the chance simply because he thought he might have to play second fiddle, then yes he wouldn't have deserved one. But your attempt at an argument makes no sense, since anywhere Jordan went he would've been top dog.

Yes, he was the greatest player in the game and would have been the best player on whichever team he went to. But there is no way, if the Bulls sucked, that Jordan would have left to join Magic Johnson or Larry Bird. No way. Feel free to disagree with my argument, but to say it makes no sense is childish at best.

 

[RandygoCuse]

a) I don't like the idea that he's not a 'team player'. His job is to score, so that's what he does. Kobe does the same thing, except he's had much better talent around him and coaching, so he has the Titles to shut people up. Yeah, Melo's defense isn't the greatest but he doesn't just fan on guys all game long and let what is usually the best scorer on the other team drop 30+ on a consistent basis. He's also a good rebounder.

b) This is a garbage year for the Knicks and they knew it was going to be. They are going to have a ton of cap space available next season and they can finally dump Amare. With a legit PG currently, some decent young talent (Shumpert and Hardaway if he stays), and Melo, all the Knicks need to do is grab a good Center in free agency and they have something going. Heck, they might even be able to grab a good Center and a true PF.

Agreed - I don't think he's selfish. I just think he doesn't do much beyond score and help some on the boards.

 

[RF2044]

Jordan would have bolted if 10 years into his career he was a struggling one-man-show without a title. Takeaway Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Catwright, Rodman, Kerr, Armstrong, Hodges from the early and late 90s teams and it's not hard to imagine.

Well yeah--if you take away 9 key players from the championship teams.

"Other than that, how'd you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"