Has Carmelo Worn Out His Welcome in New York?

[sufandu]

Yes, he was the greatest player in the game and would have been the best player on whichever team he went to. But there is no way, if the Bulls sucked, that Jordan would have left to join Magic Johnson or Larry Bird. No way. Feel free to disagree with my argument, but to say it makes no sense is childish at best.

It's not that he wouldn't have left. It's that he wouldn't have been afraid to leave for fear of playing second fiddle (which was what you said as reasoning for Melo to not team up with anyone. Look at your "Batman/Robin post). He would've wanted to stay with the Bulls because he wanted to beat those guys instead of teaming up with them.

Jordan did check his ego, despite being the best player ever, because he knew he needed to in order to win. Nobody knows what he would've done if he had been in his 30's without a championship on a team doing their best to win the most ping pong balls in the lottery because his teams were never that bad. Maybe he would've pulled a Clyde Drexler and teamed up with Hakeem, but nobody knows because he never had to. He was the ultimate Batman and he had his Robin and a coach that taught him the why and how to put his ego aside for the betterment of the team. Who knows, maybe it helped him to have played second fiddle to Worthy on a championship team in college.

 

[sufandu]

Agreed - I don't think he's selfish. I just think he doesn't do much beyond score and help some on the boards.

Yeah, I think selfish is the wrong word. I just don't think he get's it.

 

[orangefan13]

Carmelo reminds me of dirk niwitski and proabably a better defender and rebounder overall. Dirk took little to no slack over the years, and won a title because he had the pieces around him.

 

[kjb120]

2. Knicks could be heading for high lottery pick. Add that & a couple of good trades and/or free agent signings and they could be a playoff team next season.
.

I was really holding out hope that the Knicks could at least be good enough to get a 7th or 8th seed in a terrible eastern conference but clearly I was mistaken. So at this point I don't mind being horrible and getting a high draft pick, I just hope Phil doesn't pull a Isaiah Thomas and trades the pick for lance Stephenson.

 

[baggerbob]

I know Kobe was a good defender, that's why I made the comment about Melo's defense. He's a scorer on a team with downright terrible offensive threats, so he shoots... a lot.

His passing is no worse than Kobe's (in fact, I'd say it's better) but who does he have to pass to? Hardaway, so he can miss another 3 pointer? Shumpert, so he can drive and fall over while throwing up something wild? Amare, so he can go into isolation just like Melo? JR Smith, so he can dribble around for 5 minutes and throw up a fadeaway?

Also, it's worth pointing out that nobody on the Knicks should be complaining about anybody else's defense, except Shumpert. They're all bad at it, and I'm not even convinced Melo is the worst.

Shumpert on offense is now, and always will be a disaster, one of the Knicks 4 wins was, with Shumpert out, probably the best team performance of the year.

 

[CaptainJ]

I just want to know if he wore out his welcome with random precision or not.

 

[Full_Rebar]

It's amazing that Melo is the one talking all the heat for the mess that is the Knicks. We all know he had over 50 million reasons to stay in NY and hope that in 2-3 years they could contend for a title, so why not tank the season and try and land Okafor, then replace Amare/JR with viable NBA players and suddenly you could have a team at the top of the East. Patience...I know it's tough, but this season should be all about setting themselves up for next year.

 

[two3zone]

It's amazing that Melo is the one talking all the heat for the mess that is the Knicks. We all know he had over 50 million reasons to stay in NY and hope that in 2-3 years they could contend for a title, so why not tank the season and try and land Okafor, then replace Amare/JR with viable NBA players and suddenly you could have a team at the top of the East. Patience...I know it's tough, but this season should be all about setting themselves up for next year.

It lands on him the same reason the Heat and the Cavs "lack of titles" fell on Lebron.

 

[Full_Rebar]

It lands on him the same reason the Heat and the Cavs "lack of titles" fell on Lebron.

True. It's just lazy #hottakes to me. Anyone who knows basketball wouldn't wonder why a team starting Amare and Quincy Acy is struggling.

 

[OrangeDW]

True. It's just lazy #hottakes to me. Anyone who knows basketball wouldn't wonder why a team starting Amare and Quincy Acy is struggling.

In my opinion Calderon is the only starting caliber player they have, other than Carmelo. And Calderon hasn't even played well since returning from injury, and even at his best he's a middle of the pack starting PG.

There's not one other player on that roster that I'd particularly want on my team. Maybe Shumpert as an 8th man or so. Amare still has some skills but is so limited by his health.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

In my opinion Calderon is the only starting caliber player they have, other than Carmelo. And Calderon hasn't even played well since returning from injury, and even at his best he's a middle of the pack starting PG.

There's not one other player on that roster that I'd particularly want on my team. Maybe Shumpert as an 8th man or so. Amare still has some skills but is so limited by his health.

The coach would be one of the Knicks' best players if he suited up

 

[Knicks411]

I know Kobe was a good defender, that's why I made the comment about Melo's defense. He's a scorer on a team with downright terrible offensive threats, so he shoots... a lot.

His passing is no worse than Kobe's (in fact, I'd say it's better) but who does he have to pass to? Hardaway, so he can miss another 3 pointer? Shumpert, so he can drive and fall over while throwing up something wild? Amare, so he can go into isolation just like Melo? JR Smith, so he can dribble around for 5 minutes and throw up a fadeaway?

Also, it's worth pointing out that nobody on the Knicks should be complaining about anybody else's defense, except Shumpert. They're all bad at it, and I'm not even convinced Melo is the worst.

I agree on the defense thing; he is definitely not the worst, Hardaway is a disaster. Amare and Bargani and Calderon are all pretty horrible too, all worse than Melo I'd say.

For Kobe and Melo on passing, Kobe has a much much higher career ast% than Melo. Since 2000, every year Kobe has had a better asst% than Melo's single season career high.

 

[Knicks411]

Carmelo reminds me of dirk niwitski and proabably a better defender and rebounder overall. Dirk took little to no slack over the years, and won a title because he had the pieces around him.

Interesting, because if Melo had Dirk's supporting cast on that 2011 team, people would still say Melo played with no one. Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd (2 guys he played with in NY), Shawn Marion, Jason Terry; where is the superstar there?

And dirk took a lot of heat in 07 when Dallas lost to Golden State in round 1.

 

[br801]

The coach would be one of the Knicks' best players if he suited up

And a couple of their players might be better able to coach this team than their current coach.

 

[Knicks411]

And a couple of their players might be better able to coach this team than their current coach.

If the team is going to suck, I'm all for Head Coach JR Smith.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

If the team is going to suck, I'm all for Head Coach JR Smith.

Good one! Speaking of JR and good ones, Chris Rock hit my funny bone with his JR shoutout on Letterman the other night (starts right around the 1:25 mark...Chris was on fire).

 

[OrangeDW]

Interesting, because if Melo had Dirk's supporting cast on that 2011 team, people would still say Melo played with no one. Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd (2 guys he played with in NY), Shawn Marion, Jason Terry; where is the superstar there?

And dirk took a lot of heat in 07 when Dallas lost to Golden State in round 1.

Kidd and Chandler were both horrible in the 2013 playoffs(not Melo's fault!). If they played like the 2011 versions, the Knicks most likely beat Indiana at least. Miami would've been tough though. But then again 2013 Miami was way better than the 2011 Miami that Dallas beat.

Also, if the 2013 Knicks even had this current version of Amare, they probably make the ECF.

Melo has not gotten a lot of help in NY. Things have not fallen into place at all the way they did for Dallas in the 2011 playoffs.

 

[OrangeDW]

And a couple of their players might be better able to coach this team than their current coach.

I like Fisher and hope he succeeds, but maybe this recent trend of teams hiring guys to coach immediately after they retire will come to an end. With the Kidd in Brooklyn disaster and now Fisher struggling greatly, it's probably a good idea to let these guys be assistant coaches first, or at least work as a commentator where they can study the league and what's going on.

 

[Knicks411]

Kidd and Chandler were both horrible in the 2013 playoffs(not Melo's fault!). If they played like the 2011 versions, the Knicks most likely beat Indiana at least. Miami would've been tough though. But then again 2013 Miami was way better than the 2011 Miami that Dallas beat.

Also, if the 2013 Knicks even had this current version of Amare, they probably make the ECF.

Melo has not gotten a lot of help in NY. Things have not fallen into place at all the way they did for Dallas in the 2011 playoffs.

Oh I know, Chandler and Kidd were brutal in the 2013 playoffs, trust me, I watched all of those games. Chandler made Hibbert look like Moses Malone.
But my larger point is when I think of great supporting casts behind a star player, the 2011 Mavs aren't exactly at the top of my list.

 

[OrangeDW]

Oh I know, Chandler and Kidd were brutal in the 2013 playoffs, trust me, I watched all of those games. Chandler made Hibbert look like Moses Malone.
But my larger point is when I think of great supporting casts behind a star player, the 2011 Mavs aren't exactly at the top of my list.

Agreed. But things came together for them and all their guys were playing at their best in the playoffs, their team clicked at the right time, and they got a good but vulnerable opponent in the finals.

None of those things have even come close to happening for Melo in NY. Things have never broken right for them like that in the playoffs, though the 2013 regular season was a good example of a not all that impressive supporting class playing pretty well. On paper, that doesn't look like a 54 win team.

 

[Knicks411]

Agreed. But things came together for them and all their guys were playing at their best in the playoffs, their team clicked at the right time, and they got a good but vulnerable opponent in the finals.

None of those things have even come close to happening for Melo in NY. Things have never broken right for them like that in the playoffs, though the 2013 regular season was a good example of a not all that impressive supporting class playing pretty well. On paper, that doesn't look like a 54 win team.

I definitely agree with that, the 2011 playoffs were very weird, and if I remember correctly, Dallas shot over 40% from 3 for their entire playoff run, which will cover up a lot a sins.

I was mainly disagreeing with the idea of Dirk didn't get it done for a few years, and then he got the right pieces around him and won the title. Not like that was an overwhelming collection of talent.

That 2013 team was very odd; Woodson seemed to hate to play small, but they were basically forced into it, spread the floor, made a million 3's, and had a good year. He then spent the rest of hie tenure trying to go big.