HBO Chernobyl Mini-Series | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

HBO Chernobyl Mini-Series

Agree with others here: Great series, well acted, etc.
This would be an outstanding film in the horror genre...but for the fact that it is true. That’s a whole new level of horror.
It’s like the difference between Schindler’s List and The Boy in the Striped Pajamas. Both moving and thematically accurate...but there is a limit to which the two can aptly be compared, in my opinion. It may not be the best comparison, but it’s all I could think of at the moment.
 
This would be an outstanding film in the horror genre...but for the fact that it is true
Agreed. One of the scariest films I've ever seen, and I was 11 at the time was, The Day After. Scared the shyt out of me, and I can remember all this time later how I felt after watching that. Very similar.
 
Agreed. One of the scariest films I've ever seen, and I was 11 at the time was, The Day After. Scared the shyt out of me, and I can remember all this time later how I felt after watching that. Very similar.
Right there with you! I so remember that movie, for the same reasons. I think I was 15 or 16 at the time.
 
Yeah that is a dialogue recap and I suppose anyone that is bothering to read the thread is already watching the series.

Tough to really worry about spoilers with a show like this. It’s like “don’t tell me how Titanic ends, I’m still planning to see it.”

Although I’ll just tell all the Mad Men fans who watch it, Layne Price seems to always go out the same way. Not really a spoiler though, you’ll realize that 3 minutes into the first episode.
 
Tough to really worry about spoilers with a show like this. It’s like “don’t tell me how Titanic ends, I’m still planning to see it.”

Although I’ll just tell all the Mad Men fans who watch it, Layne Price seems to always go out the same way. Not really a spoiler though, you’ll realize that 3 minutes into the first episode.
Yeah haha, that's true. "Wait, you mean the guys walking around in reactor fuel chunks and looking into an exposed reactor core didn't make it?"
 
Agreed. One of the scariest films I've ever seen, and I was 11 at the time was, The Day After. Scared the shyt out of me, and I can remember all this time later how I felt after watching that. Very similar.

“Threads” which is a similar movie but set in Britain is even worse unbelievably.

Looking forward to ep 4. The last one was unreal.
 
Episode 4, the parts about clearing the roof is the subject of that doc I posted on the previous page. There are scenes directly recreated from the original Soviet footage. Really well done.

Animal Control. Good god, I’m not wired for that. What the heck would I do if they yanked me out of the motor pool, sent me to the most radioactive place on earth and told me this is your new job?? I don’t believe I could do it!
 
The lies of the leaders, the cover up, the complicity of others to go along with the lies...feels familiar.

Fake news

You know, both sides of the fence could probably say the same and feel they occupy the moral high ground. It's kind of frightening, but not terribly uncommon in history.
 
I would need to study the specifics more, but my feeling is that things may not actually have been as bad as they could look in terms of cover up or lies, at least in the specific small area I describe below. Why do I say that?

They made great example of the fuel rods having graphite tips. That this was a wholly negligent design that was a ticking timebomb. I'm not really convinced this is fair. As an engineer and one who specifically specializes in operations, I know that nothing of the scale and complexity of a nuclear reactor can be made bullet proof. Trust me, just about any engineered system you use or encounter everyday has design weaknesses, compromises, hazards and risks associated with it.

Good engineers always know the risk trades they are making with any design decision, but in cases where there is an accident, lay people can interpret those decisions with 20/20 hindsight as negligence or even wanton disregard for life. In reality, that design trade was most likely bought off on by reasoning that it would take almost preposterously abnormal reactor conditions to ever lead to it being a problem. The logic can go something like this "these fuel rods can pose a hazard if the operating conditions get to X, Y, Z. We've got methods in place to prevent those conditions, and if those conditions are happening, we've got bigger problems than graphite tips!" In other words, most hazards in a very complex system are dealt with through multiple controls (design, software, operational constraints or techniques, inter-related system designs, etc). In this case, I'm sure the procedures and rules for operating the reactor would have specifically precluded these conditions.

So in that way, their kangaroo court did have it substantially correct. The behaviors of the Diatlov in the control room were so far beyond reasonable, I was dumbfounded - and I have spent thousands of hours in control rooms very similar to that. His actions were way off the charts! The individual operators were staring what we call the error chain right in the face and didn't have the fortitude (and the plant clearly didn't have the culture) for them to call a complete halt to the operation.

I place the blame 95% on the decision to press with the safety test without a) your prime shift executing it, b) considering the new conditions created by the 10 hour delay, c) by not giving any prep time or training to the team executing the test, and finally d) by deviating from procedures and rules in place. And it doesn't take Soviet sytle communism to develop the conditions that compelled them to proceed with this test.
 
I would need to study the specifics more, but my feeling is that things may not actually have been as bad as they could look in terms of cover up or lies, at least in the specific small area I describe below. Why do I say that?

They made great example of the fuel rods having graphite tips. That this was a wholly negligent design that was a ticking timebomb. I'm not really convinced this is fair. As an engineer and one who specifically specializes in operations, I know that nothing of the scale and complexity of a nuclear reactor can be made bullet proof. Trust me, just about any engineered system you use or encounter everyday has design weaknesses, compromises, hazards and risks associated with it.

Good engineers always know the risk trades they are making with any design decision, but in cases where there is an accident, lay people can interpret those decisions with 20/20 hindsight as negligence or even wanton disregard for life. In reality, that design trade was most likely bought off on by reasoning that it would take almost preposterously abnormal reactor conditions to ever lead to it being a problem. The logic can go something like this "these fuel rods can pose a hazard if the operating conditions get to X, Y, Z. We've got methods in place to prevent those conditions, and if those conditions are happening, we've got bigger problems than graphite tips!" In other words, most hazards in a very complex system are dealt with through multiple controls (design, software, operational constraints or techniques, inter-related system designs, etc). In this case, I'm sure the procedures and rules for operating the reactor would have specifically precluded these conditions.

So in that way, their kangaroo court did have it substantially correct. The behaviors of the Diatlov in the control room were so far beyond reasonable, I was dumbfounded - and I have spent thousands of hours in control rooms very similar to that. His actions were way off the charts! The individual operators were staring what we call the error chain right in the face and didn't have the fortitude (and the plant clearly didn't have the culture) for them to call a complete halt to the operation.

I place the blame 95% on the decision to press with the safety test without a) your prime shift executing it, b) considering the new conditions created by the 10 hour delay, c) by not giving any prep time or training to the team executing the test, and finally d) by deviating from procedures and rules in place. And it doesn't take Soviet sytle communism to develop the conditions that compelled them to proceed with this test.

Don't confuse the fuel rods with the control rods which is what had the graphite tips. Moreover, in regards to your second paragraph, your reasoning that the design trade was most likely the result of the worst case scenario never actually ever coming to fruition, defeats the purpose of the SCRAM which is for precisely its intent, for the worst case scenario. When it came to that point, the graphite tips preceeding the Boron control rods exacerbated the situation, which produced the opposite intent as the 'positive void coefficient' intensely magnified within a few seconds causing the steam explosion first, then the ensuing larger one after oxygen/air entered the reactor chamber. The design flaw stems larger than their voluntary choice of using graphite tips, as these RBMK Soviet reactors were unique in that with increased steam, the 'void coefficient' increases (positively) versus decreasing (negatively) in all other nuclear reactors. That, in my view, was the larger flaw in design.

No doubt human error, recklessness, etc. was a significant contributing factor leading up to that fatal moment of hitting the SCRAM button, which is why all three defendants were convicted of 10 years hard labor. That being said, even with all that gross negligence, the SCRAM (insertion of all control rods) should not have thrown fuel on the fire.
 
Don't confuse the fuel rods with the control rods which is what had the graphite tips. Moreover, in regards to your second paragraph, your reasoning that the design trade was most likely the result of the worst case scenario never actually ever coming to fruition, defeats the purpose of the SCRAM which is for precisely its intent, for the worst case scenario. When it came to that point, the graphite tips preceeding the Boron control rods exacerbated the situation, which produced the opposite intent as the 'positive void coefficient' intensely magnified within a few seconds causing the steam explosion first, then the ensuing larger one after oxygen/air entered the reactor chamber. The design flaw stems larger than their voluntary choice of using graphite tips, as these RBMK Soviet reactors were unique in that with increased steam, the 'void coefficient' increases (positively) versus decreasing (negatively) in all other nuclear reactors. That, in my view, was the larger flaw in design.

No doubt human error, recklessness, etc. was a significant contributing factor leading up to that fatal moment of hitting the SCRAM button, which is why all three defendants were convicted of 10 years hard labor. That being said, even with all that gross negligence, the SCRAM (insertion of all control rods) should not have thrown fuel on the fire.

Good points. Yes I meant control rods. I do agree, there is a severe weakness about the fact that scramming the reactor could make cases worse. I’m looking at how far off into the weeds they were with the configuration and wonder if any designed solution could have been predicted for that. They had the reactor making xenon for 10+ hours, then pulled 200+ control rods completely out, then turned off the water pumps!

Nobody in operations should be so cavalier as to use the scram button (or any other fail safe type mechanism) as a crutch like he did there.

But I don’t totally disagree with your point. Mine is only to say that it is too easy of an answer to simply think the designers were blood thirsty monsters. If they suspected the plant would ever be operated like it was your best bet would be put your pencil down and walk away!

The lack of a containment structure is another huge corner cutting they did with the design although I’m sure it would have probably been of limited effect in this case.
 
Good points. Yes I meant control rods. I do agree, there is a severe weakness about the fact that scramming the reactor could make cases worse. I’m looking at how far off into the weeds they were with the configuration and wonder if any designed solution could have been predicted for that. They had the reactor making xenon for 10+ hours, then pulled 200+ control rods completely out, then turned off the water pumps!

Nobody in operations should be so cavalier as to use the scram button (or any other fail safe type mechanism) as a crutch like he did there.

But I don’t totally disagree with your point. Mine is only to say that it is too easy of an answer to simply think the designers were blood thirsty monsters. If they suspected the plant would ever be operated like it was your best bet would be put your pencil down and walk away!

The lack of a containment structure is another huge corner cutting they did with the design although I’m sure it would have probably been of limited effect in this case.
It's worth remembering that other reactors in the Soviet Union had near misses as well. So it would seem that either what Dylatov was doing wasn't that much of an aberration (which is scary) or the RBMK's flaws didn't require such extreme abuse to manifest.

E: Your observation about culture within the control room is spot on. It reminds me of Malcolm Gladwell's writing about how cockpit culture contributed to the Korean Air crash at Guam. It was apparently the junior crew members knew something was wrong, but culturally it was taboo to correct the captain with the forcefulness the situation called for.
 
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Nuke power is incredibly safe and clean.
I haven’t followed the issue recently, but I remember reading several years ago about concerns that we don’t have facilities or to permanently store our radioactive waste. Has that been addressed?
 
I haven’t followed the issue recently, but I remember reading several years ago about concerns that we don’t have facilities or to permanently store our radioactive waste. Has that been addressed?
I don't know the specific answer to that, but based on familiarity with humans...I'm going to go with "no."
 

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