HCDM has an eye for diamonds in the rough

[javadoc]

Marrone is a good teaching coach (sans special teams).

I think we'll be fine.

I have no doubt of that, and have patience.

 

[SoBristol]

I disagree as I think the kids in the summer have fewer offers and they are typically by lower level programs. If we get an Akron offer kid in July how do you know where the program is? You just think having more bodies in July means we're recruiting better?

Last year we had 16 commitments by the end of July. 3 decommitted in January.

Of the original 16 though, 12 of them mostly only had offers from MAC schools or none at all with a few Vandy's mixed in. I clearly remember people being up in arms about the high numbers and the perceived quality.

In 2011 by August we had

Lou Addazio – USF, UCF, Akron
Tyree Smallwood – nuff said
Jaston George – ECU, Richmond, Norfolk
Donnie Simmons – Akron
Jon Fisher – none
Terrel Hunt – none
Cam Lynch – Vandy, Air Force, Akron
Oliver Vigille – USF, FIU, UCF
Sam Rodgers – none

Yet after December we landed:

Durrell Eskridge
Ashton Broyld
Siriki Diabate
Adonis Ameen Moore
Shu Mungwa
Brandon Reddish
Nick Robinson
Ritchy Desire
Kyle Foster

Ivan Foy

As for the recruiting through July, you need to look more deeply. It isn't only the prospects we landed. You make the comparisons of who we landed, versus who we didn't land. We offered many prospects from our region -- they took offers from Pitt, RU, BC, Maryland. Most of the better programs (PSU, North Carolina) have 75% of their class committed by July and they are putting finishing touches on the class with a few who decide late. We didn't deliberately aim for a small group by the end of July. It turned out that way because we didn't get traction with our offers.

And that is why the late plus this year feels like scrambling. We haven't had a lot of visits from any remaining high school prospects. We are visiting a lot of JUCO prospects -- and working hard at it.

 

[kcsu]

Nothing wrong with Jucos. We reached a little higher on the HS front this year and struck out on some key kids. So we go the Juco route. The fact that we were able to RS most of last years class is really good. Add in the Funder and Walls and we are doing just fine. The HS kids will come in time. Doug and staff have and continue to lay a solid foundation with HS programs not only close to home but across the country. We are getting in on Kids that we didnt have a shot at a few years ago. The Jucos that we are on are all very well thought of. Look at the schools that are after them. I think the staff is doing a very solid job

 

[GoSU96]

My post did not in any way question the on field results. We've had a good season. The future looks bright. It could look brighter.

The staff has done a great job of finding kids, but I suspect they haven't done a great job closing on a lot of their first choices.

So far this season we don't have any high school level offensive linemen.

The previous season we got 3. I'm not counting Barrett.

The season before that is a little trickier. We picked up 3-5, depending on how you classify Foy (I think he was also a strong possibility on defense) and depending on how much credit you give the staff for picking up Robinson out of Baldwinsville, since he was most likely not a top priority for the staff.

The season before that we picked up two in Hickey and Macky.

Now, yeah, we've supplemented with JUCO talent, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it's crazy to suggest that signing 10 offensive linemen out of high school over 4 years was the master plan.

With the OL it might have been. It's development position that was gutted the first year and they are trying to rebuild it using both HS kids and transfers. Current circumstances being what they are they need to bring in a couple of January transfers in order to support spring practice. There will be 9 scholarship OL going into spring ball.

 

[GoSU96]

if we showed glimpse's of this years offense the first 3 years- recruiting would be on a much better footing -imho

i just see future problems when a small class gets filled with jc kids- 3 years down the road when this class would be in the picture- these jc kids will be gone and we end up relying on a bunch of redshirt and true freshman-never a good thing


i dont know but i would think his 4th class would start to show some growth in quality and size-

Go into hiding when they are doing well and the first whiff of negativity, well here you are.

So unexpected.

 

[GoSU96]

3 years down the road Mungwa and Curtis would have graduated and D. Ford and Hilliard would be seniors - so it's a moot point. Next year, Mungwa and Ford would have likely been in the 2 deep at safety, Curtis in the 2 deep at OL, and Hilliard in the 2 deep at DE.

You make it sound like the JUCO's are replacing what would otherwise be high school recruits - they aren't. They're replacing people that would have been ready to play and contribute next year. If you exclude the late attrition guys, my guess is we would have taken as many JUCO's this year as any other year.

It's not that hard to understand, and yet...

 

[rosconey]

want a empty bottle so you can save that whine-

Go into hiding when they are doing well and the first whiff of negativity, well here you are.

So unexpected.

 

[GoSU96]

Three quick things:

I would hope that we felt there were more than three high school linemen that met our standards that at least had some interest in our program. It's a problem if there weren't.

I am attributing lack of numbers to failure. I just have a hard time believing this is how the staff wanted it to go.

We are running the right system, and given the system and talent at hand I feel we can be successful. If we want to make a leap though improved recruiting is probably necessary.

Last year we kept hearing how great a class we should have lined up this season. Looking it over, it's an underwhelming class. Doesn't mean it's a class that puts us in a position where we can't be competitive on the field, but so far it seems on the whole to be less than expected.

If they get Smith the class is fine. Got the QB's and backs they wanted. Another big, potential impact nose, added three LB's. The only issue is OL, and that's the result of early departures.

 

[kcsu]

I agree. I expect us to land one if not both of the OL Jucos. Also i think that Smith is in the fold.

 

[GoSU96]

want a empty bottle so you can save that whine-

The last post you made was in April pumping up a Hot Seat thread. Not one word regarding the play on the field this season that can find, and the poof, you drop in eight months later on a thread bitching about recruiting.

The offense sets records left and right and not one positive word, just a slam about what took them so long.

Unreal.

 

[RMH44]

Marrone is a good teaching coach (sans special teams).

I think we'll be fine.

I guess you didn't notice improved ST play? Maybe you weren't watching.

 

[anomander]

Things stalled because of our putrid 2-4 start coming off a 4-8 year. How do you sell at that point? There was no buzz, no fans and message board posts calling for heads. Opposing recruiters had everything they needed to dismiss us.

September is that critical time where you're either going to stay in the race with kids or fall out. By October kids have narrowed down their lists. If you're not in that top 5 or 6 schools by then it's hard to get back in the hunt. I see it every single year.

The hot finish meant nothing it was already over by then. We ever start out 3-0 or 5-1 I'll bet season tickets recruiting would be night and day different.

I'll go on record right now and say that 2013 will be a banner recruiting year. We have a ton of offers out to juniors and I'm getting the feeling there is a lot of reciprocal interest. (did not get that feeling this year with kids at all) This is where our strong finish and bowl game will come in to play.

I really hope our HS recruiting can take off next year. We will have a few things working for us, and a few working against.

Pros:
Solid finish to the year, lot of momentum, with some serious young talent returning
Nassib should be drafted relatively high, as well as Pugh as an early entry Olineman
Up tempo offense much more attractive
ACC schedule

Cons:
Tough non-conf schedule (@NW, Penn St (n))
Top recruit out of NYC already committed elsewhere
Recruiting against higher competition

It seems we have been in the mix for some key guys the past few years, but keep being left at the alter. I get the feeling we just need that one guy to say yes (Ebo), and we can get it rolling. Only way to do it though is just win baby. Personally if everything stays at it is I love our team next year, even with the question mark at QB. With another bowl season, getting established in the ACC, and our young talent getting more experience, making us a serious threat in 2014, I can see 2014 as our year where recruiting really takes off.

 

[anomander]

I guess you didn't notice improved ST play? Maybe you weren't watching.

I don't know I thought our special teams definitely cost us the Northwestern game, and could have had a huge hand in losing the Rutgers game as well. I think DM has to find a guy, who can dedicate everything to special teams, and let DM do what he does. I am more then happy he is our coach, but our special teams was more then suspect, albeit slightly improved throughout the year.

 

[rosconey]

firs toff-i couldnt post -i was banned or something

and if 4 years waiting for a offense isnt a issue- i dont know what to say

if you think all is well - i cant help that-

and since your so up as to what i said 8 months ago- go look-
i said a real offense and 5 wins would get marrone a extension = but you and your kind hate to give props to those who talk facts

The last post you made was in April pumping up a Hot Seat thread. Not one word regarding the play on the field this season that can find, and the poof, you drop in eight months later on a thread bitching about recruiting.

The offense sets records left and right and not one positive word, just a slam about what took them so long.

Unreal.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Wow this thread is going down hill in a hurry. Poor special teams? Looked pretty good to me after Rutgers, saw some solid improvement.

I agree with Phat though, slow start doesn't help recruiting.

 

[RMH44]

firs toff-i couldnt post -i was banned or something

and if 4 years waiting for a offense isnt a issue- i dont know what to say

if you think all is well - i cant help that-

and since your so up as to what i said 8 months ago- go look-
i said a real offense and 5 wins would get marrone a extension = but you and your kind hate to give props to those who talk facts

Yep...you're a legend in your own mind.

Btw, you weren't missed. Run along.

 

[kingtidge]

I guess you didn't notice improved ST play? Maybe you weren't watching.

it got better and stabilized to the point where it wasn't losing us games... but it certainly was not a strength.

 

[rosconey]

why cant handle opinions that dont fall in line with yours- that would make this a pretty poor place

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

it got better and stabilized to the point where it wasn't losing us games... but it certainly was not a strength.

Kick off coverage was strong most of the season. Punt coverage and punting got much better and more consistent as the season went on.

Receiving was okay, especially when Desir took ever punts.

Place kicking was spotty, but didn't hurt us in the end.

And the team even blocked a punt this year!

I mean, it wasn't pretty all of the time, but with an offense as good as the team's was, I'll take what we had over the previous three seasons.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

STs were fine the second half of the season.If we can get that from here on out,we're good.IMO,HS recruiting is what it is until we can show some sustained success on the field.If it takes JUCOs to get us off this bowl/no bowl rollercoaster,I say sign full classes of them til we get there.

 

[SoBristol]

STs were fine the second half of the season.If we can get that from here on out,we're good.IMO,HS recruiting is what it is until we can show some sustained success on the field.If it takes JUCOs to get us off this bowl/no bowl rollercoaster,I say sign full classes of them til we get there.

Agree about specials. Have to give Coach Marrone credit for significant improvement in all phases over the course of the season. Maybe put to rest the idea that we need a new hire for specials?

As to this JUCO/high school issue, can't take it to an extreme. I have always favored bringing in 4 or 5 JUCOs in this rebuilding phase. It isn't easy, because the better JUCO leagues are on the West Coast, or Kansas-Texas.

It is impressive that the staff has found ways to attract kids from California, Arizona, and Kansas. 3 years ago, there weren't many of this board who thought it was possible.

But it can't be the heart of our recruiting. We also need to be able to go head to head with Pitt, Rutgers, BC, Maryland and Cincy in our 6 hour region. With two bowls in three season, our program is now relevant. Going forward, if we aren't getting a fair share, our coaches need to know if it is facilities, recruiters, academics, pipelines, or whatever.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

Agree about specials. Have to give Coach Marrone credit for significant improvement in all phases over the course of the season. Maybe put to rest the idea that we need a new hire for specials?

As to this JUCO/high school issue, can't take it to an extreme. I have always favored bringing in 4 or 5 JUCOs in this rebuilding phase. It isn't easy, because the better JUCO leagues are on the West Coast, or Kansas-Texas.

It is impressive that the staff has found ways to attract kids from California, Arizona, and Kansas. 3 years ago, there weren't many of this board who thought it was possible.

But it can't be the heart of our recruiting. We also need to be able to go head to head with Pitt, Rutgers, BC, Maryland and Cincy in our 6 hour region. With two bowls in three season, our program is now relevant. Going forward, if we aren't getting a fair share, our coaches need to know if it is facilities, recruiters, academics, pipelines, or whatever.

I agree with all of this.I guess I overstated it a bit.I just meant that I'm not overly concerned about the # of JUCOs we're getting right now.If that's what it takes to get us over the hump,short term,I'm fine with it.