Herbstreit - Being a team

[Newhouser]

It's a seismic shift for this sport to be dealing with payments, agents, insta-transfer. So what Kirk is saying, while technically being correct, also seems like a bit of cherry picking.

Two teams are playing to win, one wins. Doesn't mean the others don't have a team culture and just have a me culture. If you're the one winning these close games, it's a lot easier to stick together as a team.

Some coaches probably can't control it at all, they're just not built for it in this new landscape.

He mentions Indiana, but Indiana is in the top 5 of picking up transfer portal players. They're chasing great players and agents just like everyone else.

Agree this seemed like low hanging fruit - frankly Herbstreit is so busy doing games at every level I bet he has very little time to evaluate culture on any team.

 

[SU68]

After reading these posts, I wonder if it's still possible for a P-4 school to build a "team culture" when any 5 and 4 stars they recruit may buy into that culture, but will be looking for a better deal with NIL and the portal.

Players recruited from high school as a project will probably stay for 4 years. Everyone else is a crapshoot.

 

[djorange1989]

It is kind of funny that some call Fran a con man and a fraud. But there's silence when he goes old school and pushes guys out for bad behavior and lack of respect for the team culture. The stuff that Marrone did and gave said people a stiffy.

Yep and Marrone didn’t have the portal to replace guys. Bottom line: Fran is very clear to recruits what his expectations are. If they want to come here they know what is expected. Some are honest about it and some are not, as far as will they do what he asks. We had a lot of younger guys last season, and very little upper class leadership like we had in 2024.

 

[tbonezone]

i'm totally down with never hearing the terms DART or LEVEL 5 again.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

After reading these posts, I wonder if it's still possible for a P-4 school to build a "team culture" when any 5 and 4 stars they recruit may buy into that culture, but will be looking for a better deal with NIL and the portal.

Players recruited from high school as a project will probably stay for 4 years. Everyone else is a crapshoot.

How can you have a "culture" when most players are one year rentals? If you are winning it is easy to buy in. If you are inconsistent or not winning, there is no reason to buy in. At that point you are looking for your next pay day.

Also you need team leaders to have a culture. Which is hard to do when your upperclassmen have been on campus only a few months.

Look at next season here

The only coaches that are back: Fran, Nixon, Johnson, Gattis. The rest need to learn the culture. Then of the players, here are your returning upperclassmen: Angeli, Mack, Peal. As of now we have 32 new players coming in who have to learn the culture. I would not be surprised if that number gets over 40. And that will be a typical year to year thing.


I think in today's environment there is no building without winning. It used to be the opposite.

 

[Scooch]

I have no issue w any of the culture stuff from Fran. I had an issue w quitting. Still kinda gross we just punted on a season.

To call a spade a spade anyone w a brain had to be confused by it. Next year will be a big one for Fran. As of now I consider him a front runner. Great coaches coach great when things are at their hardest and most challenging.

I get it. I was pissed off about last season too. Fran owns that catastrophe 100%

But it's over. I think it's time to look to 2026 and hope for the best. If the season is a dog then we'll have all the answers we need about Fran.

 

[Scooch]

After reading these posts, I wonder if it's still possible for a P-4 school to build a "team culture" when any 5 and 4 stars they recruit may buy into that culture, but will be looking for a better deal with NIL and the portal.

Players recruited from high school as a project will probably stay for 4 years. Everyone else is a crapshoot.

Sure you can. NIL complicates things, but culture can be built quickly.

I think about my kid's travel hockey teams. Every year was a big turnover in players. On an 18 person team there'd usually only be 4 or 5 kids he played with the season before.

And yet every season was wildly different in terms of culture. Some coaches were great communicators, great teachers, and had a highly functional environment almost from day 1. Others were poor at those things and by mid-season it was all griping and selfishness.

There's many levels to culture. And a LOT rides on the players. But a great coach can create a good one quickly.

 

[orangepassion]

I had a problem with talking several times about next year while we still had a few games left in the season. Not adhering to the whole "relentless" thing in DART, if you ask me. And this is the coach doing this, mind you, not the players. To me, that makes it even worse.

It sent the wrong message to the seniors, the rest of the players still trying to win, and the fans who pay their good money to come and watch you play (and win) THIS year. If the coach wants to THINK that, fine. But he has to have the discipline to know when he needs to keep his mouth shut publicly about it.

I think the idea was to play the young players more, but in the NIL/Transfer portal era, not sure it's helpful, as it just gives those guys more exposure for potential transfer

 

[sufan59]

I think the idea was to play the young players more, but in the NIL/Transfer portal era, not sure it's helpful, as it just gives those guys more exposure for potential transfer

Yeah though we are a week away from officially being able to say we kept the young players with high ceilings at Syracuse

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yep and Marrone didn’t have the portal to replace guys. Bottom line: Fran is very clear to recruits what his expectations are. If they want to come here they know what is expected. Some are honest about it and some are not, as far as will they do what he asks. We had a lot of younger guys last season, and very little upper class leadership like we had in 2024.

Marrone got rid of Shafer kids. Fran is getting ride of Fran kids and coaches who are culture problems.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If I am not mistaken, for our 10 W season we had only one starter on O and only three on D who were underclassmen. Experienced starters who are mature both physically and mentally is what we need. Question is how do we get them in today's environment.

 

[CNYGuy]

Marrone got rid of Shafer kids. Fran is getting ride of Fran kids and coaches who are culture problems.

"Culture problems" can be literally anything though. I can't think of any player with legal or major troubles under Fran (at least at Syracuse, Johntay got a minor issue elsewhere). I think people are insinuating that some of them are bad kids, but we really don't have evidence of that. You can be a good kid who doesn't fit, or do the little things right that coaches obsess over.

 

[crales44]

Marrone got rid of Shafer kids. Fran is getting ride of Fran kids and coaches who are culture problems.

He got rid of Robinson's kids. Shafer came after Marrone.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

He got rid of Robinson's kids. Shafer came after Marrone.

Has anyone ever seen the two of them in the same room? Until proven otherwise they are the same person.

 

[Nicknack]

I just hope we don't look back at the Fran era (with DART) like we do now with Babers and the close your eyes belief without evidence thing. I for one am going to cut Fran some slack for last year. It was only his 2nd year as a head coach. However, next year he's going to have to do better on many fronts to maintain support from this fan.

 

[azbobbop]

Observations on the Fran Brown era…

Much like Scooch I’ve literally hired hundreds of people. One of my mentors told me that if I got 6 of 10 right, It was a landslide. So far, I’ve exceeded that goal but certainly had my share of washouts.

Second, FB had to make the best he could on short notice on the Class of 24. You can’t compare having 2-3 years to recruit a class with a 30 day window. Relationships take time.

It’s obvious that changes in the portal, NIL and University funding have caused a lot of changes. Learning and dealing with those changes will be critical in where the program goes.

Like everyone else here, I want more better faster. I’ll have confidence in the current group until I don’t. Hopefully that day doesn’t come anytime soon.

 

[sufandu]

How many of those encouraged to hit the portal were brought in by Fran and how does that bode for the future with respect to who is being added this year?

Do you think you know how much a kid will buy in to a program during high school recruiting? The kids try to make themselves look as good as possible just like the coaches do. You don't truly know they're a fit until you get them in the program.

 

[anomander]

Or perhaps some of the departures we had into the portal were because they weren't buying into the team culture...

FWIW, all of the portal entries besides Gill, were encouraged to hit the portal by HC Fran Brown.

If we’re being honest with ourselves some of the rules and expectations are a little over the top. I do think Fran needs to loosen up a bit.

Asked to leave or not, i don’t think we’ve
come close to replacing what we lost as of today. Hopefully, there are a couple more high impact commits coming up, but space is running out.

 

[anomander]

Good point. You see Indiana and wonder why we cant be that successful that quick. But, IMO, Indiana is an outlier. The more I think about it, Fran probably had to take some risks in the portal to plug holes.

They aren’t an outlier, they are spending a crap ton of $

 

[anomander]

If I am not mistaken, for our 10 W season we had only one starter on O and only three on D who were underclassmen. Experienced starters who are mature both physically and mentally is what we need. Question is how do we get them in today's environment.

That’s the only way you’re going to win. Looking at most of next years roster, we’re not even close to that.

 

[djorange1989]

That’s the only way you’re going to win. Looking at most of next years roster, we’re not even close to that.

Well I think this past season’s team would have been a 6 win roster if Angeli was healthy. A really young roster with a dumpster fire of a DC who had no defensive identity. Do I think we will have a 10 win roster once the portal dust settles? No, but I think we will be a decent team

 

[wfschrec]

They aren’t an outlier, they are spending a crap ton of $

Mark Cuban has even said he is dumping millions into the program ... you are spot on.

 

[Atlcuse44]

They aren’t an outlier, they are spending a crap ton of $

And have a great coach. You can spend a crap ton of money but you'd better have someone who knows how to use what you bought.

 

[Stevenson]

I am an assistant manager at a midsize textile firm located in the rust belt. I drive a Dodge Stratus, and feel that Fran and I have met at a Tony Robbin’s seminar, at least spiritually.

Give the man a chance.

 

[Nicknack]

i'm totally down with never hearing the terms DART or LEVEL 5 again.

That's cool and certainly your right. For me though, while I don't like some of what I saw this year, I'm willing to accept that Fran is going to make some mistakes as he's learning and developing as a head coach and that doesn't mean what he believes in is BS just because he comes up short at times. This year though is going to tell us a ton. I'm excited (and a little nervous).