Here's the main difference between now and Atlantis...

[RF2044]

...In those three games, we had six guys who were scoring. Even Coleman, in a more limited capacity, was converting [in addition to rebounding and blocking shots at a high volume clip]. Gbinije was lights out. Cooney played strong. We got double digit scoring from Malachi / Lydon. And Roberson was solid [although he didn't have a huge game against A&M]. Six guys, all capable of putting up double digits.

The last two games, we've had games where only three guys were scoring [Wisconsin] and four today [Roberson, Coleman, Gbinije, and Cooney not reaching double digits]. To say that shots weren't dropping today in the first half would be a gross understatement. But we can't suffer through games with so few points being scored--this team isn't built for rock fights.

Now, there were some positive signs. Roberson had a terrific game. Can he find more consistency? Coleman had a game that he can build upon. Far from perfect, but I loved how he bounced back after getting unnecessarily relegated to three minutes against a big Wisconsin team. Gbinije didn't have his best game, but I love how he battled. But I just don't see us winning games getting virtually nothing from Richardson, and where Lydon struggles. Not dumping on those two, but we need more from BOTH of them.

If we get it, then this team can win some ball games. If not, we're going to struggle immensely.

 

[20Plus]

...In those three games, we had six guys who were scoring. Even Coleman, in a more limited capacity, was converting [in addition to rebounding and blocking shots at a high volume clip]. Gbinije was lights out. Cooney played strong. We got double digit scoring from Malachi / Lydon. And Roberson was solid [although he didn't have a huge game against A&M]. Six guys, all capable of putting up double digits.

The last two games, we've had games where only three guys were scoring [Wisconsin] and four today [Roberson, Coleman, Gbinije, and Cooney not reaching double digits]. To say that shots weren't dropping today in the first half would be a gross understatement. But we can't suffer through games with so few points being scored--this team isn't built for rock fights.

Now, there were some positive signs. Roberson had a terrific game. Can he find more consistency? Coleman had a game that he can build upon. Far from perfect, but I loved how he bounced back after getting unnecessarily relegated to three minutes against a big Wisconsin team. Gbinije didn't have his best game, but I love how he battled. But I just don't see us winning games getting virtually nothing from Richardson, and where Lydon struggles. Not dumping on those two, but we need more from BOTH of them.

If we get it, then this team can win some ball games. If not, we're going to struggle immensely.

I agree with everything you said but Cooney needs to be this consistent piece. Then we only need one of those two freshman every game!

 

[bballbeadle]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm in Boston and was going to wait until Sunday to watch the game and found out what happened. But I couldn't control myself. RF, yours is the first post I've read to find out what happened. Glad there were some positives; distressed the freshmen didn't do so well again. Yet, the score was fairly close. So, I'll go read a little more before beddie bye.

Thanks for cushioning the blow!

 

[RF2044]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm in Boston and was going to wait until Sunday to watch the game and found out what happened. But I couldn't control myself. RF, yours is the first post I've read to find out what happened. Glad there were some positives; distressed the freshmen didn't do so well again. Yet, the score was fairly close. So, I'll go read a little more before beddie bye.

Thanks for cushioning the blow!

It isn't going to be pretty to watch. We scored 2/3 of our points in the 2nd half. The hole we dug was just too deep--can't play that poorly on the road and expect to win. We cut it to 6, but couldn't quite get over the hump. Georgetown had big answer shots numerous times when we had momentum. If we were down 10-12 instead of 21...

Roberson had a great game. Gbinije continues to play big time ball [and admittedly, today wasn't his top performance by a long shot]. Coleman had an impressive game / numbers--nice bounce back. Give the kids credit for battling hard in the 2nd half and making it a game, but we have to bring that intensity for 40 minutes [a la the uconn / a&m games].

 

[orangehomer]

i think we are going to be a team that can beat anyone but also lose to anyone, because we are a perimeter shooting team. i did think that hopkins may have stumbled onto an identity in the second half, the zone can still be effective when undersized if it is quick and aggressive. i think franklin howard might be emerging too, the kid is a player. i wasnt happy about the loss of course, but our real season will be the acc and i feel like there is some room for improvement here.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I also think that the perimeter defenders have gotten better recently. Guard penetration has declined. G isn't turning the corner on many lately and neither is anybody else consistently. Saw some really positive stuff from FH. Hopkins said in the presser that he is the team's best penetrator/driver. Without that the guards just go side-to-side and teams can load up on passing lanes waiting for those curls when Cooney is circling around like a madman. The pick 'n rolls aren't really working as someone brought up in another thread. It was comical watching KJ once he checked in. He sort of stopped/stalled way behind the 3 pt line motioning repeatedly for a screen to help him out. Everyone seemed surprised and someone (can't remember who) ran WAY out there to rescue him. He wasn't even being guarded tightly. Just move!! Dribble forward, ugh.

 

[pearl31]

like I said in another thread, when comparing what was working then to what isn't working now (offensively) - it's as simple as Lydon and Richardson. They were both scoring in double digits then and aren't scoring at all now. The other players, for the most part, are providing the past two games what they were providing in the Bahamas.

 

[orangehomer]

I also think that the perimeter defenders have gotten better recently. Guard penetration has declined. G isn't turning the corner on many lately and neither is anybody else consistently. Saw some really positive stuff from FH. Hopkins said in the presser that he is the team's best penetrator/driver. Without that the guards just go side-to-side and teams can load up on passing lanes waiting for those curls when Cooney is circling around like a madman. The pick 'n rolls aren't really working as someone brought up in another thread. It was comical watching KJ once he checked in. He sort of stopped/stalled way behind the 3 pt line motioning repeatedly for a screen to help him out. Everyone seemed surprised and someone (can't remember who) ran WAY out there to rescue him. He wasn't even being guarded tightly. Just move!! Dribble forward, ugh.

kaleb is lost right now, i'm not sure what amount of coaching can fix it.

 

[orangehomer]

like I said in another thread, when comparing what was working then to what isn't working now (offensively) - it's as simple as Lydon and Richardson. They were both scoring in double digits then and aren't scoring at all now. The other players, for the most part, are providing the past two games what they were providing in the Bahamas.

richardson is about as confident as it gets for a freshman. he is what he is. lydon has to look to score more, he passed on at least 5 shots that he should have taken.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think we've involved Malachi in the offense as much either.

 

[RF2044]

I don't think we've involved Malachi in the offense as much either.

I don't know--I don't see any plays being run for him, if that's what you mean. But that hasn't changed from earlier games. Malachi is at his best when he's hitting shots, or when he's taking it to the rim. Today, he didn't hit shots and when he drove he got called for charges. Just a tough game for the frosh.

If one or two of those drives had drawn blocks instead of charges, who knows.

 

[orangefan13]

Its alot of things.

Wisconsin and Gtown were still two totally different games.
gtown shot 48% that's pretty darn good. 41-42% will be the most we will see against most great offensive teams this season. A+M and Wisky shot 41-42% against us.

We shot 36% against wisky 38% today alittle better.

The first 5 games including the bahamas against 2 good ranked teams we were getting 3 less shots then opponents. In our last two losses we got 3+ more shots and lost.

from three the last two games.
5-18 27%
7-27 25%

there is so many questions we kind of lack identity as the seniors haven't tried to do more then they could off the dribble and the freshmen are inconsistant, now we throw a true point guard out there and the chemistry could change to a completly different team if he starts driving alot.
same with the defensive end, its hard to tell whats going to happen.
not much would suprise me at this point.
:blah::blah::blah:long post.

 

[CusefanATL]

the roof is taller now.

 

[CusefanATL]

Its alot of things.

Wisconsin and Gtown were still two totally different games.
gtown shot 48% that's pretty darn good. 41-42% will be the most we will see against most great offensive teams this season. A+M and Wisky shot 41-42% against us.

We shot 36% against wisky 38% today alittle better.

The first 5 games including the bahamas against 2 good ranked teams we were getting 3 less shots then opponents. In our last two losses we got 3+ more shots and lost.

from three the last two games.
5-18 27%
7-27 25%

there is so many questions we kind of lack identity as the seniors haven't tried to do more then they could off the dribble and the freshmen are inconsistant, now we throw a true point guard out there and the chemistry could change to a completly different team if he starts driving alot.
same with the defensive end, its hard to tell whats going to happen.
not much would suprise me at this point.
:blah::blah::blah:long post.

41-42% will not be "most we will se against most great offensive teams"

thats insane talking.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't think we've involved Malachi in the offense as much either.

He's 0 for his last 11 from three. He's not giving us anything if he doesn't hit shots.
I'd like to see more of the Lydon/Coleman/Roberson front line against big teams if he isn't shooting well.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

Before anyone jumps off the bridge here - yes, we live and die off the three-pointer. Yesterday, even after being down 20, we fought back to make it a game. Had they made one less three (and they had some lucky bounces), and had we made one more three (and we missed some really good looks), it would have been at worst a one-possession game down the stretch. With that, anything could have happened.

That, and Hayes played out of his skull. We should not have let him get into that kind of rhythm.

Coleman is improving. Howard should get more run. Malachi won't miss forever. We will be OK.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Before anyone jumps off the bridge here - yes, we live and die off the three-pointer. Yesterday, even after being down 20, we fought back to make it a game. Had they made one less three (and they had some lucky bounces), and had we made one more three (and we missed some really good looks), it would have been at worst a one-possession game down the stretch. With that, anything could have happened.

That, and Hayes played out of his skull. We should not have let him get into that kind of rhythm.

Coleman is improving. Howard should get more run. Malachi won't miss forever. We will be OK.

I just don't think we have the personnel to stop even the average-type of big guys. Coleman has no lift right now, Lydon has limited strength, Chino is not a D1 player, frankly. The bigs who have nice touch around the paint/rim with those hooks and such are killing us since we have no shotblocking and aren't pushing them out far enough. They can just drop shots right over our frontline. There's nothing we can really do this season just hope the 3s will drop anyway we can get them. The effort is there or else these losses would be real routs but there's only so much a limited team on both sides can do. It's a just a risky style of ball to play since our guard speed/penetration ability is limited against good defending guards. But, like JB said, it's the only option really. And, I'm sick of hearing Wisconsin sucks and Georgetown is mediocre. They are both good teams. Any idiot can see that. Saying Wisconsin is bad is like saying Golden State is overrated. It's just plain false.

 

[pearl31]

He's 0 for his last 11 from three. He's not giving us anything if he doesn't hit shots.
I'd like to see more of the Lydon/Coleman/Roberson front line against big teams if he isn't shooting well.

I didn't realize Mal is on THAT kind of shnide. Ouch.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

I just don't think we have the personnel to stop even the average-type of big guys. Coleman has no lift right now, Lydon has limited strength, Chino is not a D1 player, frankly. The bigs who have nice touch around the paint/rim with those hooks and such are killing us since we have no shotblocking and aren't pushing them out far enough. They can just drop shots right over our frontline. There's nothing we can really do this season just hope the 3s will drop anyway we can get them. The effort is there or else these losses would be real routs but there's only so much a limited team on both sides can do. It's a just a risky style of ball to play since our guard speed/penetration ability is limited against good defending guards. But, like JB said, it's the only option really. And, I'm sick of hearing Wisconsin sucks and Georgetown is mediocre. They are both good teams. Any idiot can see that. Saying Wisconsin is bad is like saying Golden State is overrated. It's just plain false.

I don't disagree with what you wrote here. We will improve in the middle, but yes, we will never be great there this year. There aren't that many teams with excellent big guys, and we will suffer when a player like Hayes has a career game. I'm not advocating that we will be #1 or even contend for that. But we can be a top 25 team, maybe even Sweet 16. Come Feb/Mar, we can be a team that can beat (almost) anybody on a given night. But not likely six games in a row.

I give Georgetown and JT3 credit for a nuance that I noticed they did very well. When they passed high to their guy at the foul line, he would spin in mid-air to face the basket right away, cutting down on our reaction time. He didn't wait to come down and then pivot. That put a lot of pressure on us, so he could either feed Hayes, or slash before we could react. It was tough to stop.

 

[br801]

I didn't realize Mal is on THAT kind of shnide. Ouch.

You bring the pitchforks, I've got the torches. We can work on demeaning nicknames for him later.

 

[TinyManInside]

...In those three games, we had six guys who were scoring. Even Coleman, in a more limited capacity, was converting [in addition to rebounding and blocking shots at a high volume clip]. Gbinije was lights out. Cooney played strong. We got double digit scoring from Malachi / Lydon. And Roberson was solid [although he didn't have a huge game against A&M]. Six guys, all capable of putting up double digits.

The last two games, we've had games where only three guys were scoring [Wisconsin] and four today [Roberson, Coleman, Gbinije, and Cooney not reaching double digits]. To say that shots weren't dropping today in the first half would be a gross understatement. But we can't suffer through games with so few points being scored--this team isn't built for rock fights.

Now, there were some positive signs. Roberson had a terrific game. Can he find more consistency? Coleman had a game that he can build upon. Far from perfect, but I loved how he bounced back after getting unnecessarily relegated to three minutes against a big Wisconsin team. Gbinije didn't have his best game, but I love how he battled. But I just don't see us winning games getting virtually nothing from Richardson, and where Lydon struggles. Not dumping on those two, but we need more from BOTH of them.

If we get it, then this team can win some ball games. If not, we're going to struggle immensely.

The difference was that now coaches have enough tape on Richardson and Lydon that they can formulate a plan to defend them. Let's hope both these guys can adjust and rebound from their poor showings. Hopefully we don't have another Chris McCollough situation here.

 

[RF2044]

The difference was that now coaches have enough tape on Richardson and Lydon that they can formulate a plan to defend them. Let's hope both these guys can adjust and rebound from their poor showings. Hopefully we don't have another Chris McCollough situation here.

Yup. No doubt, those players have been scouted / accounted for in the defensive gameplan. That should open things up for other players, however -- and right now we're just not capitalizing. Offense is stagnant, too much standing around / swinging the ball around the perimeter, not enough penetration, not enough purposeful dribbling.

 

[jr4750]

The difference was that now coaches have enough tape on Richardson and Lydon that they can formulate a plan to defend them. Let's hope both these guys can adjust and rebound from their poor showings. Hopefully we don't have another Chris McCollough situation here.

Agreed. I was fortunate to sit close to the floor for the Gtown game, and watched those two very closely. The one thing that irked me about Richardson, was something I was afraid of before the season began. He is not aggressive enough as a rebounder, and he really hurts us as a back line defender. Hayes, was killing Lydon with that little turn around jumper, and Malachi was giving up tons of second chance pts. Mike was brought down low when Frank came in and battled much harder, which helped us come back (along with a more driving, less 3's). Hope they can be tougher. Hop was more animated than JB has probably been in 20 years.

 

[Knicks411]

We're going to rely on the 3 pointer a lot, and that's a high variance strategy. We couldn't miss in Atlantis, and we're something like 7-24 in each of the last 2 games.

That's also a very easy comment to make, it's not just the 3 pointers, we're getting crushed on the offensive boards, turning the ball over too much (if we're going to play a guard heavy team that gets beat on the defensive boards, which is going to happen, we need to protect the ball better), but we're not going to beat a lot of good teams shooting 7-24 from 3.

 

[pearl31]

We're going to rely on the 3 pointer a lot, and that's a high variance strategy. We couldn't miss in Atlantis, and we're something like 7-24 in each of the last 2 games.

That's also a very easy comment to make, it's not just the 3 pointers, we're getting crushed on the offensive boards, turning the ball over too much (if we're going to play a guard heavy team that gets beat on the defensive boards, which is going to happen, we need to protect the ball better), but we're not going to beat a lot of good teams shooting 7-24 from 3.

mostly agree, but fwiw we rebounded pretty much evenly w/ g'town (actually had more O rebounds than them) and had single digit TO's that game as well - also shot > 80% from FT line... bottom line against GT was field goal %, specifically from Richardson/Lydon