Historical Bowl Prestige | Syracusefan.com

# Historical Bowl Prestige

#### SWC75

##### Bored Historian
We are going to the Camping World Bowl. What is that and how much does it mean in terms of prestige? It’s hard to keep track of the first because the names of bowls change a kaleidoscopic fashion, (Camping World is the 7th name used for this one). The second can be measured in terms of the bowl pay-out, (per Wikipedia this is the 8th richest bowl with \$5,800,000 total pay-out). I was interested in the historical prestige of the bowls: the cumulative value of the teams that have played in it. I decided to use the rankings done at the end of the regular season and grant teams points on the 25 for 1st, 24 for 2nd and 23 for 3rd, etc. basis. The combined points then tell us the prestige of the bowl in that year. Teams that weren’t ranked earn no points for their bowl.

Let’s look at 1936 as an example. #3 Pittsburgh played #5 Washington in the Rose Bowl. My shot-cut method is to add those numbers and subtract from 52: 3 + 5 = 8 subtracted from 52 = 44 points for the Rose Bowl for 1936. (The long way: #3 produces 23 points and #5 produces 21 points for a total of 44.) In the Sugar Bowl, #2 Louisiana State played #6 Santa Clara, which also produces 44 points for the Sugar Bowl. The Cotton Bowl had #16 Texas Christian and #20 Marquette for 16 points. The Orange Bowl had #14 Duquesne playing unranked Mississippi State for 12 points. Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl 44 points, Cotton bowl 16 points, Orange Bowl 12 points.

It was fun to add them up over the years because it made it like a horse race. Each year the bowls would move forward mathematically. One would catch another, then fall back, etc. The Rose took the lead in 1937 was ahead until the Sugar tied it again in 1953. The Rose took the lead in 1955, the Sugar in 1957, (solo for the first time), the Rose in ‘58, the Sugar in ’59, the Rose in ’60, etc. They both became the first bowls to hit the 1,000 point mark in 1961 with the Sugar back in the lead with 1,007 points to an even 1,000. The Rose re-took the lead in 1965. The Sugar took it back in ’66 only to have the Rose back in front in ’67. The Sugar took the lead for good in 1982 and hit the 2,000 point mark in 1987, (when Syracuse went there), and the 3,000 point mark in 2013. The Cotton Bowl was ahead of the orange until 1975 and has fallen further and further behind since. The Gator was a solid #5 from its creation in 1945. Eventually the Fiesta, which didn’t exist until 1971, caught it in 2007. He Fiesta has long since put the Gator in the rear view mirror. But when we played there in 1966, they were solidly the #5 bowl in prestige.

Below are the final totals as of this year. The total for the same bowl under various names have bene added up. I’ve also divided the totals by the number of years the bowls have been in existence. I used the AP, (writer’s poll) to compute the point totals until the BCS standings and then the playoff committee rankings came into existence. AP had a top 20 until 1961, then just a top ten from 1962-67, (so did the UPI coach’s poll). Then they went back to a top 20 until 1988. It became a top 25 in 1989. I supplemented the AP rankings with UPI teams that weren’t in the AP Top 20 from when the UPI poll began in 1950. By that I mean that the 21st team would be the team UPI ranked highest that was not in the AP top 20. The 22nd team would be UPI’s second highest ranked team that was not also in the AP Top 20. Example in 1950 Southern Methodist was ranked #15 by UPI but not at all by AP. Stanford was ranked #19 by UPI but not at all by AP. I thus presumed that SMU was AP’s 21st ranked team and Stanford their 22nd ranked team. Unfortunately, neither went to a bowl game that year, (there were only 9 and several were what we would now call small college bowl games). The first year this supplemental ranking produced points was in 1954 when Georgia Tech was ranked #13 by UPI but not at all by AP and they played #10 Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl. I gave Tech 5 points as the 21st ranked AP team and Arkansas 16 for being their #10 team so the Cotton Bowl got 21 points that year. One final note: beginning in 2007, the BCS championship game was not technically in a bowl: it was in a special game played at a bowl site a week after the bowls had finished. I have not counted those games as the bowls at those cites had already been played there. Those were separate championship games, not bowl games. The years refer to the season. Some bowls are played early in the next year but are part of the season listed. Although I have listed the entire span of years of each bowl, averages are from 1936 on, since that’s when the rankings started. My sources were the ESPN College Football Encyclopedia and their website. The bowls in bold are the ones Syracuse had been to.

3,197 points - Sugar (1935-2018) 3,197 divided by 83 years = 38.5 average points
3,144 points - Rose (1901, 1915-2018) average: 37.9
3,049 points – Orange (1935-2018) average: 36.7
2,531 points – Cotton (1936-2018) average: 30.5
1,576 points - Fiesta (1971-2018) average: 32.8

1,188 points - Gator AKA Taxslayer (1945-2018) average: 16.1
1,014 points - Citrus AKA Tangerine, Florida Citrus, Capital One, Buffalo Wild Wings (1947-2018)
average: 14.1
616 points - Holiday (1978-2018) average: 15.0
579 points - Peach AKA Chick-fil-A (1968-2018) average: 11.4
454 points - Sun AKA John Hancock (1936-2018) average: 5.5
424 points - Bluebonnet AKA Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl (1959-1987) average: 14.6
405 points - Outback AKA Hall of Fame Bowl, (not the same as the Hall of Fame Classic) (1985-2018) average: 11.9
396 points - Liberty (1959-2018) average: 6.6

327 points - Alamo (1993-2018) average: 4.0
206 points - Camping World AKA Blockbuster, Carquest, Micron PC, Tangerine, Champs Sport, Russell Athletic (1990-2018) average: 7.1
176 points - Aloha (1982-2000) average: 9.3

123 points - Las Vegas AKA California, Maaco (1981-2018) average: 3.2
58 points - Cheez-it Bowl AKA Cooper, Insight.com, Buffalo Wild Wings, Motel 6, Cactus (1989-2018) average: 1.9
52 points - Freedom (1984-94) average: 4.7
47 points - Belk AKA Continental Tire, Meinike Car Care (2002-2018) average: 2.8
47 points - Poinsetta (2005-2016) average: 3.9
42 points - All American AKA Hall of Fame Classic, (not the same game as the Hall of Fame Bowl) (1977-1990) average: 3.0
42 points - Independence AKA AdvoCare V100 (1976-2018) average: 1.0
37 points - Dollar General AKA Mobile, Alabama, GMAC, Go Daddy (1999-2018) average: 1.85
32 points - Oil (1943, 1945-1946) average: 10.7
29 points - Treasury (1944) average: 29.0
27 points - Redbox AKA San Francisco, Emerald, Fight Hunger, Foster Farms (2002-2018) average: 1.6
26 points - Music City (1998-2018) average: 1.2
23 points - Famous Idaho Potato AKA Humanitarian, MPC Computing (1997-2018) average: 1.05
22 points - Delta (1947-1948) average: 11.0
19 points - Oahu (1998-2000) average: 6.3
18 points - Dixie (1947-1948) average: 6.0
16 points - Armed Forces AKA Fort Worth (2003-2018) average: 1.0
16 points - Gotham (1961-1962) average: 8.0
16 points - Little Caesar’s AKA Motor City (1997-2013) average: 0.9
16 points – Texas (2006-2018) average: 1.2
15 points – Seattle (2001-2002) average: 7.5
12 points - Houston AKA Gallery Furniture (2000-2005) average: 2.0
9 points - First Responder AKA Ticket City, Heart of Dallas (2011-2018) average: 1.1
9 points - Hawaii (2002-2018) average: 0.5
7 points - Bluegrass (1958) average: 7.0
7 points - Cigar (1946-1954) average: 0.8
7 points – Military AKA Eagle Bank (2008-2018) average: 0.6
6 points – Cherry (1984-1985) average: 3.0
6 points - Garden State (1978-81) average: 1.5
6 points - Pinstripe (2010-2018) average: 0.7
6 points - Silicon Valley (2000-2004) average: 1.2
5 points - Pasadena (1967-1971) average: 1.0
4 points - Birmingham AKA Papa John’s, BBVA Compass (2006-2018) average: 0.3
2 points - Boca Raton (2014-2018) average: 0.4

The following bowls have never had a ranked team play in them:

Alamo (1947)
Arizona (2015-2018)
Aviation Bowl (1961)
Bacardi AKA Rhumba (1937)
Bahamas (2014-2018)
Camellia (1948, 1961-1975, 1980, 2014-2018)
Cure (2015-2018)
Dixie Classic (1921, (1924, 1933: there were no ranked teams until 1936)
Fort Worth Classic (1920)
Frisco (2017-18)
Gasparilla AKA St. Petersburg, Beef O’Brady’s (2008-2018)
Great Lakes (1947)
Harbor Bowl (1946-1948)
International Bowl (2006-2009)
Los Angeles Christmas Festival (1924)
Miami Beach (2014-2016)
New Mexico (2006-2018)
New Orleans (2001-2018)
Presidential Cup (1950)
Quick Lane (2014-2018)
Raisin Bowl (1945-1949)
San Diego East-West Christmas Classic (1921-1922)
Shrine (1948-1949)

Alas there is no Pesci or Ty-Dee Bowl.

I was listening to radio in Albany, NY...the sports guys had no idea what the Camping World Bowl was and were assuming it was some lower tier bowl. One consequence of corporate sponsor named bowls is that it never builds a “brand” with casual fans. They know the Sugar Bowl/Rose Bowl/Gator Bowl - but not ones that change names every five years to the new sponsor.

I was listening to radio in Albany, NY...the sports guys had no idea what the Camping World Bowl was and were assuming it was some lower tier bowl. One consequence of corporate sponsor named bowls is that it never builds a “brand” with casual fans. They know the Sugar Bowl/Rose Bowl/Gator Bowl - but not ones that change names every five years to the new sponsor.

Which is ironic because the sponsors are themselves trying to build a brand. The fact that the Carrier Dome had been the Carrier Dome for 38 years builds the brand. Our baseball park has changed it's name a couple of times and I don't remember what it is now. Continuity...

Couple things...

1. The Pinstripe needs to start getting some ranked teams in a hurry, that’s a pretty shlity ranking for a Tier 1 Bowl that’s had 9 of them.

2. Bring back the Bluebonnet Bowl!!! It’s been gone for 30 years (seems like yesterday) and its still holding strong at #12?? Whoa. Being in Houston one would think that’s a good thing. Is there a bowl there now?? Who owns the naming rights?? I’m going to buy them, let madny handle the advertising...and let’s right this wrong.

We are going to the Camping World Bowl. What is that and how much does it mean in terms of prestige? It’s hard to keep track of the first because the names of bowls change a kaleidoscopic fashion, (Camping World is the 7th name used for this one). The second can be measured in terms of the bowl pay-out, (per Wikipedia this is the 8th richest bowl with \$5,800,000 total pay-out). I was interested in the historical prestige of the bowls: the cumulative value of the teams that have played in it. I decided to use the rankings done at the end of the regular season and grant teams points on the 25 for 1st, 24 for 2nd and 23 for 3rd, etc. basis. The combined points then tell us the prestige of the bowl in that year. Teams that weren’t ranked earn no points for their bowl.

Let’s look at 1936 as an example. #3 Pittsburgh played #5 Washington in the Rose Bowl. My shot-cut method is to add those numbers and subtract from 52: 3 + 5 = 8 subtracted from 52 = 44 points for the Rose Bowl for 1936. (The long way: #3 produces 23 points and #5 produces 21 points for a total of 44.) In the Sugar Bowl, #2 Louisiana State played #6 Santa Clara, which also produces 44 points for the Sugar Bowl. The Cotton Bowl had #16 Texas Christian and #20 Marquette for 16 points. The Orange Bowl had #14 Duquesne playing unranked Mississippi State for 12 points. Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl 44 points, Cotton bowl 16 points, Orange Bowl 12 points.

It was fun to add them up over the years because it made it like a horse race. Each year the bowls would move forward mathematically. One would catch another, then fall back, etc. The Rose took the lead in 1937 was ahead until the Sugar tied it again in 1953. The Rose took the lead in 1955, the Sugar in 1957, (solo for the first time), the Rose in ‘58, the Sugar in ’59, the Rose in ’60, etc. They both became the first bowls to hit the 1,000 point mark in 1961 with the Sugar back in the lead with 1,007 points to an even 1,000. The Rose re-took the lead in 1965. The Sugar took it back in ’66 only to have the Rose back in front in ’67. The Sugar took the lead for good in 1982 and hit the 2,000 point mark in 1987, (when Syracuse went there), and the 3,000 point mark in 2013. The Cotton Bowl was ahead of the orange until 1975 and has fallen further and further behind since. The Gator was a solid #5 from its creation in 1945. Eventually the Fiesta, which didn’t exist until 1971, caught it in 2007. He Fiesta has long since put the Gator in the rear view mirror. But when we played there in 1966, they were solidly the #5 bowl in prestige.

Below are the final totals as of this year. The total for the same bowl under various names have bene added up. I’ve also divided the totals by the number of years the bowls have been in existence. I used the AP, (writer’s poll) to compute the point totals until the BCS standings and then the playoff committee rankings came into existence. AP had a top 20 until 1961, then just a top ten from 1962-67, (so did the UPI coach’s poll). Then they went back to a top 20 until 1988. It became a top 25 in 1989. I supplemented the AP rankings with UPI teams that weren’t in the AP Top 20 from when the UPI poll began in 1950. By that I mean that the 21st team would be the team UPI ranked highest that was not in the AP top 20. The 22nd team would be UPI’s second highest ranked team that was not also in the AP Top 20. Example in 1950 Southern Methodist was ranked #15 by UPI but not at all by AP. Stanford was ranked #19 by UPI but not at all by AP. I thus presumed that SMU was AP’s 21st ranked team and Stanford their 22nd ranked team. Unfortunately, neither went to a bowl game that year, (there were only 9 and several were what we would now call small college bowl games). The first year this supplemental ranking produced points was in 1954 when Georgia Tech was ranked #13 by UPI but not at all by AP and they played #10 Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl. I gave Tech 5 points as the 21st ranked AP team and Arkansas 16 for being their #10 team so the Cotton Bowl got 21 points that year. One final note: beginning in 2007, the BCS championship game was not technically in a bowl: it was in a special game played at a bowl site a week after the bowls had finished. I have not counted those games as the bowls at those cites had already been played there. Those were separate championship games, not bowl games. The years refer to the season. Some bowls are played early in the next year but are part of the season listed. Although I have listed the entire span of years of each bowl, averages are from 1936 on, since that’s when the rankings started. My sources were the ESPN College Football Encyclopedia and their website. The bowls in bold are the ones Syracuse had been to.

3,197 points - Sugar (1935-2018) 3,197 divided by 83 years = 38.5 average points
3,144 points - Rose (1901, 1915-2018) average: 37.9
3,049 points – Orange (1935-2018) average: 36.7
2,531 points – Cotton (1936-2018) average: 30.5
1,576 points - Fiesta (1971-2018) average: 32.8

1,188 points - Gator AKA Taxslayer (1945-2018) average: 16.1
1,014 points - Citrus AKA Tangerine, Florida Citrus, Capital One, Buffalo Wild Wings (1947-2018)
average: 14.1
616 points - Holiday (1978-2018) average: 15.0
579 points - Peach AKA Chick-fil-A (1968-2018) average: 11.4
454 points - Sun AKA John Hancock (1936-2018) average: 5.5
424 points - Bluebonnet AKA Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl (1959-1987) average: 14.6
405 points - Outback AKA Hall of Fame Bowl, (not the same as the Hall of Fame Classic) (1985-2018) average: 11.9
396 points - Liberty (1959-2018) average: 6.6

327 points - Alamo (1993-2018) average: 4.0
206 points - Camping World AKA Blockbuster, Carquest, Micron PC, Tangerine, Champs Sport, Russell Athletic (1990-2018) average: 7.1
176 points - Aloha (1982-2000) average: 9.3

123 points - Las Vegas AKA California, Maaco (1981-2018) average: 3.2
58 points - Cheez-it Bowl AKA Cooper, Insight.com, Buffalo Wild Wings, Motel 6, Cactus (1989-2018) average: 1.9
52 points - Freedom (1984-94) average: 4.7
47 points - Belk AKA Continental Tire, Meinike Car Care (2002-2018) average: 2.8
47 points - Poinsetta (2005-2016) average: 3.9
42 points - All American AKA Hall of Fame Classic, (not the same game as the Hall of Fame Bowl) (1977-1990) average: 3.0
42 points - Independence AKA AdvoCare V100 (1976-2018) average: 1.0
37 points - Dollar General AKA Mobile, Alabama, GMAC, Go Daddy (1999-2018) average: 1.85
32 points - Oil (1943, 1945-1946) average: 10.7
29 points - Treasury (1944) average: 29.0
27 points - Redbox AKA San Francisco, Emerald, Fight Hunger, Foster Farms (2002-2018) average: 1.6
26 points - Music City (1998-2018) average: 1.2
23 points - Famous Idaho Potato AKA Humanitarian, MPC Computing (1997-2018) average: 1.05
22 points - Delta (1947-1948) average: 11.0
19 points - Oahu (1998-2000) average: 6.3
18 points - Dixie (1947-1948) average: 6.0
16 points - Armed Forces AKA Fort Worth (2003-2018) average: 1.0
16 points - Gotham (1961-1962) average: 8.0
16 points - Little Caesar’s AKA Motor City (1997-2013) average: 0.9
16 points – Texas (2006-2018) average: 1.2
15 points – Seattle (2001-2002) average: 7.5
12 points - Houston AKA Gallery Furniture (2000-2005) average: 2.0
9 points - First Responder AKA Ticket City, Heart of Dallas (2011-2018) average: 1.1
9 points - Hawaii (2002-2018) average: 0.5
7 points - Bluegrass (1958) average: 7.0
7 points - Cigar (1946-1954) average: 0.8
7 points – Military AKA Eagle Bank (2008-2018) average: 0.6
6 points – Cherry (1984-1985) average: 3.0
6 points - Garden State (1978-81) average: 1.5
6 points - Pinstripe (2010-2018) average: 0.7
6 points - Silicon Valley (2000-2004) average: 1.2
5 points - Pasadena (1967-1971) average: 1.0
4 points - Birmingham AKA Papa John’s, BBVA Compass (2006-2018) average: 0.3
2 points - Boca Raton (2014-2018) average: 0.4

The following bowls have never had a ranked team play in them:

Alamo (1947)
Arizona (2015-2018)
Aviation Bowl (1961)
Bacardi AKA Rhumba (1937)
Bahamas (2014-2018)
Camellia (1948, 1961-1975, 1980, 2014-2018)
Cure (2015-2018)
Dixie Classic (1921, (1924, 1933: there were no ranked teams until 1936)
Fort Worth Classic (1920)
Frisco (2017-18)
Gasparilla AKA St. Petersburg, Beef O’Brady’s (2008-2018)
Great Lakes (1947)
Harbor Bowl (1946-1948)
International Bowl (2006-2009)
Los Angeles Christmas Festival (1924)
Miami Beach (2014-2016)
New Mexico (2006-2018)
New Orleans (2001-2018)
Presidential Cup (1950)
Quick Lane (2014-2018)
Raisin Bowl (1945-1949)
San Diego East-West Christmas Classic (1921-1922)
Shrine (1948-1949)

Alas there is no Pesci or Ty-Dee Bowl.

A Southern visitor to our board congratulated us on going to the Tangerine Bowl.
Is that what the Camping World Bowl is?

A Southern visitor to our board congratulated us on going to the Tangerine Bowl.
Is that what the Camping World Bowl is?

Citrus Bowl was the Tangerine Bowl until the ‘80s. But they tried to repurpose the name for this Bowl a few years ago. Guess it didn’t stick.

Being in Houston one would think that’s a good thing. Is there a bowl there now?? Who owns the naming rights?? I’m going to buy them, let madny handle the advertising...and let’s right this wrong.
Academy Sports + Outdoors Texas Bowl
Dec 27
Baylor vs. Vanderbilt

There was a Salad Bowl from 1947-1951?

Maybe they should have a standard naming policy like "The Tangerine Bowl by Camping World" If the sponsor changes, then it would be "The Tangerine Bowl by Wigit Parts" or whatever. That way the bowl name would remain constant.

Couple things...

1. The Pinstripe needs to start getting some ranked teams in a hurry, that’s a pretty shlity ranking for a Tier 1 Bowl that’s had 9 of them.

2. Bring back the Bluebonnet Bowl!!! It’s been gone for 30 years (seems like yesterday) and its still holding strong at #12?? Whoa. Being in Houston one would think that’s a good thing. Is there a bowl there now?? Who owns the naming rights?? I’m going to buy them, let madny handle the advertising...and let’s right this wrong.
...we played in a bowl in Houston.

And, it was our last bowl game lol

Maybe they should have a standard naming policy like "The Tangerine Bowl by Camping World" If the sponsor changes, then it would be "The Tangerine Bowl by Wigit Parts" or whatever. That way the bowl name would remain constant.
if i'm not mistaken the Rose Bowl and a couple others do this. The Rose Bowl presented by _______

You posted something about the long defunct Bacardi bowl in the past, I love the match ups there. Big fan of Fort Pierce Amphibious Station! That was a rare University of Havana win in 1945.

You posted something about the long defunct Bacardi bowl in the past, I love the match ups there. Big fan of Fort Pierce Amphibious Station! That was a rare University of Havana win in 1945.

Bacardi Bowl - Wikipedia

Academy Sports + Outdoors Texas Bowl
Dec 27
Baylor vs. Vanderbilt
Thanks.

I had no idea that was in Houston!

Now if it was called the Bluebonnet Bowl...

They need to do a better job.with the bowl names with all the changes the prestige gets lost in the shuffle. I had no idea the cheese it bowl was the insight. The camping world bowl should be the tangerine bowl sponsored by cw

They need to do a better job.with the bowl names with all the changes the prestige gets lost in the shuffle. I had no idea the cheese it bowl was the insight. The camping world bowl should be the tangerine bowl sponsored by cw
I think that you mean the “Microsoft Windows Tangerine Bowl Presented by AT&T, and Brought to You by Camping World ... Bowl”

(That’s played on Volvo field in Camping World Stadium.)

(...and of course each half needs a name like “the Netflix First Quarter of the Minute Made First Half, Presented by Samsung.”)

They need to do a better job.with the bowl names with all the changes the prestige gets lost in the shuffle. I had no idea the cheese it bowl was the insight. The camping world bowl should be the tangerine bowl sponsored by cw

100% agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to play in any bowl game, but the names these days are just so painfully cheesy.

Tangerine Bowl presented by Camping World sounds so much better.

It all started with the Poulan-Weed Eater Independence Bowl:
Independence Bowl - Wikipedia

Of course they did this to Golf a long time ago:

1960 PGA Tour - Wikipedia

1990 PGA Tour - Wikipedia

They've done the same thing with stadiums. The worst was when Jack Murphy Stadium became Qualcomm Stadium:

Ar least they didn't try to rename Jack, (Bob Murphy's brother) Jack Qualcomm. Jack was the reason the stadium - and the San Diego Padres- were there.

The next step is when they pay athletes to change their name to that of the sponsor. They are already doing it in Thailand:

Knockout CP Freshmart - Wikipedia

Couple things...

1. The Pinstripe needs to start getting some ranked teams in a hurry, that’s a pretty shlity ranking for a Tier 1 Bowl that’s had 9 of them.

2. Bring back the Bluebonnet Bowl!!! It’s been gone for 30 years (seems like yesterday) and its still holding strong at #12?? Whoa. Being in Houston one would think that’s a good thing. Is there a bowl there now?? Who owns the naming rights?? I’m going to buy them, let madny handle the advertising...and let’s right this wrong.
I don't think Pintstripe was a tier 1 until this year.

100% agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to play in any bowl game, but the names these days are just so painfully cheesy.

Tangerine Bowl presented by Camping World sounds so much better.
100 pct we are playing in a good bowl but the name makes it sounds so cheesy.I've had like 5 people ask me what in the world is this camping bowl that cuse us playing in?

100 pct we are playing in a good bowl but the name makes it sounds so cheesy.I've had like 5 people ask me what in the world is this camping bowl that cuse us playing in?

Nothing sounds cheezier than the Cheez-it Bowl.

I liked it when this bowl was the Blockbuster Bowl. It sounded like a big deal back then.

There was a Salad Bowl from 1947-1951?
Did they ever lettuce in that bowl game?

Did they ever lettuce in that bowl game?

I don't think Pintstripe was a tier 1 until this year.
5.

Since the playoff.

and people for the love of god, we’ve explained that the CW is not the real Tangerine.

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