Honest question regarding Syracuse Athletics

[CU44SE]

Whether you like Gross or not, you must admit that he has done an incredible job with the Syracuse Athletics program as a whole. In a vacuum, without looking at salaries he has paid coaches or anything else, it is unquestioned that Syracuse Athletics as a whole, has never been stronger. With that said, football has become the biggest industry in college athletics and the lifeblood of conference expansion. So my question is relatively simple, would you rather have great Athletic success as a whole (non revenue sports including soccer, rowing, xc, womens basketball, field hockey, softball; high rankings in the directors cup), or would you trade all that in for great athletic success in the major revenue sports; Football and basketball (Due to Syracuse's success in lacrosse and revenue it can generate, I would include them in this).

Yes like most Syracuse fans, I will root for anything Syracuse, but selfishly I only truly care about Syracuse Football, Basketball, and Lacrosse.

I guess what I'm asking in a round about way, should Gross be held responsible for the state of the Football program (which now runs college athletics, expansion, and money) or does he get a pass because of the success of the athletic program as a whole.

For my vote, I vote he has failed. I could care less what his contract says about the athletic program as a whole (obviously I'm not getting the money he is for that success so he will think differently), but by doing that he has directly influenced this era of pathetic football. Someone needs to be held accountable and I believe Gross needs to go. I do not have any faith that he will do anything to steer this program in the right direction.

 

[orange79]

Whether you like Gross or not, you must admit that he has done an incredible job with the Syracuse Athletics program as a whole. In a vacuum, without looking at salaries he has paid coaches or anything else, it is unquestioned that Syracuse Athletics as a whole, has never been stronger. With that said, football has become the biggest industry in college athletics and the lifeblood of conference expansion. So my question is relatively simple, would you rather have great Athletic success as a whole (non revenue sports including soccer, rowing, xc, womens basketball, field hockey, softball; high rankings in the directors cup), or would you trade all that in for great athletic success in the major revenue sports; Football and basketball (Due to Syracuse's success in lacrosse and revenue it can generate, I would include them in this).

Yes like most Syracuse fans, I will root for anything Syracuse, but selfishly I only truly care about Syracuse Football, Basketball, and Lacrosse.

I guess what I'm asking in a round about way, should Gross be held responsible for the state of the Football program (which now runs college athletics, expansion, and money) or does he get a pass because of the success of the athletic program as a whole.

For my vote, I vote he has failed. I could care less what his contract says about the athletic program as a whole (obviously I'm not getting the money he is for that success so he will think differently), but by doing that he has directly influenced this era of pathetic football. Someone needs to be held accountable and I believe Gross needs to go. I do not have any faith that he will do anything to steer this program in the right direction.

His title is Athletic Director. Not Football/Basketball/Lacrosse Director. Have his football coaching choices been questionable (at best)? Yes. But take a look at women's hoops, FH, women's lax, XC, etc. Just because you don't care about these sports, doesn't mean no one does. Again, it is an Athletic Department, not a Football Department, no matter what sport pays the bills. And looking at it that way, he has been very successful.

 

[Crusty]

His title is Athletic Director. Not Football/Basketball/Lacrosse Director. Have his football coaching choices been questionable (at best)? Yes. But take a look at women's hoops, FH, women's lax, XC, etc. Just because you don't care about these sports, doesn't mean no one does. Again, it is an Athletic Department, not a Football Department, no matter what sport pays the bills. And looking at it that way, he has been very successful.

I hear you, but reality says that in P5 football, failure in football makes you a failure. If the revenue sports atrophy and die we won't even be playing some of the other sports.

If you take the view that failure in football is OK if you get the other things correct, then just get the hell out of the P5. We just built an IPF and are studying a new football stadium. That means the AD better succeed at football or he will be gone.

The new Chancellor will most likely get the connection.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I am no fan of TGD but if you put it in perspective of all sports for men and women ... it seems like the university has benefitted from his efforts. And honestly, the popularity of football may go the way of boxing as our society pushes back against head trauma in sports. So, looking long term I am grateful for the push to have excellence in a diversity of sports at SU.

Unfortunately for me I only watch football, men's basketball and lacrosse. Of these, football is my first love. With regard to football the best work he did, and it may be as much the work of others, was getting us into the ACC. He may have helped get our football team on a national stage with the MetLife games but those were NOT positive ways of advertising this program ... we lost all of them.

I don't want to be a crusty, old school, football-first-and-the-rest-of-the-sports-can-lump-it sort of school but football needs a better, smarter advocate than TGD. Maybe we need someone in addition to him that only oversees football or makes recommendations on future investments? Because TGD doesn't seem too connected to the world of college football.

 

[CU44SE]

His title is Athletic Director. Not Football/Basketball/Lacrosse Director. Have his football coaching choices been questionable (at best)? Yes. But take a look at women's hoops, FH, women's lax, XC, etc. Just because you don't care about these sports, doesn't mean no one does. Again, it is an Athletic Department, not a Football Department, no matter what sport pays the bills. And looking at it that way, he has been very successful.

And thats my question, but college athletics isn't what it once was. Its about making money; Football, basketball, lacrosse (for syracuse) are the major revenue sports in todays athletics. AD's aren't getting fired for poor athletic success, they are getting fired for not putting up competent football programs or basketball programs. Michigan just fired their AD for poor football success, not poor athletic success. They ranked 13th in 2013-14, 4th 2012-2013, 10th in 2011-2012, 15th in 2010-2011 in the director cups rankings.

 

[Crusty]

I am no fan of TGD but if you put it in perspective of all sports for men and women ... it seems like the university has benefitted from his efforts. And honestly, the popularity of football may go the way of boxing as our society pushes back against head trauma in sports. So, looking long term I am grateful for the push to have excellence in a diversity of sports at SU.

Unfortunately for me I only watch football, men's basketball and lacrosse. Of these, football is my first love. With regard to football the best work he did, and it may be as much the work of others, was getting us into the ACC. He may have helped get our football team on a national stage with the MetLife games but those were NOT positive ways of advertising this program ... we lost all of them.

I don't want to be a crusty, old school, football-first-and-the-rest-of-the-sports-can-lump-it sort of school but football needs a better, smarter advocate than TGD. Maybe we need someone in addition to him that only oversees football or makes recommendations on future investments? Because TGD doesn't seem too connected to the world of college football.

Easy with the use of "crusty".

 

[Alsacs]

I like DG he just failed on FB which sucks but a fact. I would keep Dr.Gross and just fire the FB staff.

 

[orange79]

The new Chancellor will most likely get the connection.

I would not count on that. As I said, this is an Athletic Department. Not a Football Only Department.

 

[CU44SE]

I like DG he just failed on FB which sucks but a fact. I would keep Dr.Gross and just fire the FB staff.

But then your saying he will get it right with the football hire, which he has proven time and time again that he cannot do. As many people on this board say, Marrone wasn't even his choice. Which seems kind of ridiculous because he has final say, but thats what they say. So technically, he is 0-2 if you think this staff needs to be fired (which I agree with whole heartedly but thats a different discussion).

 

[CU44SE]

I would not count on that. As I said, this is an Athletic Department. Not a Football Only Department.

And I disagree whole heartedly, when was the last time a P5 athletic director was fired for poor overall athletic performance? AD's are only fired for poor revenue athletic performance, mostly their inability to instill a winning football program.

 

[Alsacs]

But then your saying he will get it right with the football hire, which he has proven time and time again that he cannot do. As many people on this board say, Marrone wasn't even his choice. Which seems kind of ridiculous because he has final say, but thats what they say. So technically, he is 0-2 if you think this staff needs to be fired (which I agree with whole heartedly but thats a different discussion).

If we actually spend money on the next HC I think he can get a good coach. Every hire has been cheap even Marrone who didn't have the cache to earn big money. If we spend I think the committee can get the right guy.

 

[Crusty]

We're not in the BE anymore. This is the ACC, which is getting stronger and stronger. Our HC job is far more desirable than it was in the recent past. Our facilities have been upgraded. we are exploring a new stadium (that NYS is likely to support) and our recruiting has gotten demonstrably better. It can be a great job if we open the purse strings.

 

[omniorange]

Whether you like Gross or not, you must admit that he has done an incredible job with the Syracuse Athletics program as a whole. In a vacuum, without looking at salaries he has paid coaches or anything else, it is unquestioned that Syracuse Athletics as a whole, has never been stronger. With that said, football has become the biggest industry in college athletics and the lifeblood of conference expansion. So my question is relatively simple, would you rather have great Athletic success as a whole (non revenue sports including soccer, rowing, xc, womens basketball, field hockey, softball; high rankings in the directors cup), or would you trade all that in for great athletic success in the major revenue sports; Football and basketball (Due to Syracuse's success in lacrosse and revenue it can generate, I would include them in this).

Yes like most Syracuse fans, I will root for anything Syracuse, but selfishly I only truly care about Syracuse Football, Basketball, and Lacrosse.

I guess what I'm asking in a round about way, should Gross be held responsible for the state of the Football program (which now runs college athletics, expansion, and money) or does he get a pass because of the success of the athletic program as a whole.

For my vote, I vote he has failed. I could care less what his contract says about the athletic program as a whole (obviously I'm not getting the money he is for that success so he will think differently), but by doing that he has directly influenced this era of pathetic football. Someone needs to be held accountable and I believe Gross needs to go. I do not have any faith that he will do anything to steer this program in the right direction.

I understand the frustration, truly I do. I've mostly been avoiding this board because this season brought to the forefront my mostly unspoken concerns with the Shafer hire at the outset, mainly that the man is simply not a P5 head coach.

Still, having said that, unless Gross has a more compelling reasonably priced replacement fall into our laps, Shafer is here for at least one more year.

As for your thesis overall, it begins with a faulty premise. Yes, overall, football is the lifeblood for most college athletics programs. But as with everything, there are exceptions. Like Kansas, Kentucky, and Duke, our basketball program generates slightly more net revenue than football, according to the OPE athletics site.

Now it can be argued that basketball is maxed out and there is the potential for football to generate more than they currently are here and at each of those other institutions. This would be true, but to get that level, then net revenues for football would have to take a major dip first by increasing expenses. And under Syverud (who seems more concerned about financial management) how likely is that?

Gross may indeed be fired, but if he is, it will have little to do with this football hire, although if they want to get rid of him, it could be the "given" reason.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Dr. Bill]

We're not in the BE anymore. This is the ACC, which is getting stronger and stronger. Our HC job is far more desirable than it was in the recent past. Our facilities have been upgraded. we are exploring a new stadium (that NYS is likely to support) and our recruiting has gotten demonstrably better. It can be a great job if we open the purse strings.

Ok, who would you like to see the Cuse pursue ….that we could afford?

 

[omniorange]

We're not in the BE anymore. This is the ACC, which is getting stronger and stronger. Our HC job is far more desirable than it was in the recent past. Our facilities have been upgraded. we are exploring a new stadium (that NYS is likely to support) and our recruiting has gotten demonstrably better. It can be a great job if we open the purse strings.

And how likely is that under our new Chancellor, where financial management seems to be his main focus throughout the university? Unfortunately, membership in the ACC, especially considering the revenue we get from basketball, may give the university administrators a sense of no urgency in addressing the lack of success in football.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Crusty]

I understand the frustration, truly I do. I've mostly been avoiding this board because this season brought to the forefront my mostly unspoken concerns with the Shafer hire at the outset, mainly that the man is simply not a P5 head coach.

Still, having said that, unless Gross has a more compelling reasonably priced replacement fall into our laps, Shafer is here for at least one more year.

As for your thesis overall, it begins with a faulty premise. Yes, overall, football is the lifeblood for most college athletics programs. But as with everything, there are exceptions. Like Kansas, Kentucky, and Duke, our basketball program generates slightly more net revenue than football, according to the OPE athletics site.

Now it can be argued that basketball is maxed out and there is the potential for football to generate more than they currently are here and at each of those other institutions. This would be true, but to get that level, then net revenues for football would have to take a major dip first by increasing expenses. And under Syverud (who seems more concerned about financial management) how likely is that?

Gross may indeed be fired, but if he is, it will have little to do with this football hire, although if they want to get rid of him, it could be the "given" reason.

Cheers,
Neil

Then why did we build an IPF and why are we exploring a hugely expensive new stadium? You are assuming that the football program would take a "major dip" in net revenues, which is not a given by any means. Spending an extra $3-5 million per year in exchange for an extra $10 million, not to mention fantastic exposure for the school, is a reasonable business decision. Alternatively, risking the entire sports franchise would be very expensive and foolhardy. Penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[omniorange]

Then why did we build an IPF and why are we exploring a hugely expensive new stadium? You are assuming that the football program would take a "major dip" in net revenues, which is not a given by any means. Spending an extra $3-5 million per year in exchange for an extra $10 million, not to mention fantastic exposure for the school, is a reasonable business decision. Alternatively, risking the entire sports franchise would be very expensive and foolhardy. Penny wise and pound foolish.

You are assuming that spending the extra money guarantees success. Or are all of the universities spending more $$$ on coaches and recruiting expenses than us magically successful? Keep in mind, we are still a program that has been to three bowl games in the last 5 years and won all three. The glory days of the late 80s and the 90s are distant memories for all but the die-hard fans like us.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[CU44SE]

Then why did we build an IPF and why are we exploring a hugely expensive new stadium? You are assuming that the football program would take a "major dip" in net revenues, which is not a given by any means. Spending an extra $3-5 million per year in exchange for an extra $10 million, not to mention fantastic exposure for the school, is a reasonable business decision. Alternatively, risking the entire sports franchise would be very expensive and foolhardy. Penny wise and pound foolish.

Has there been more recent talk about this stadium? because I seem to be seeing this a lot more recently but I haven't seen anything since it last came up and was shot down. Then syvurd came out and said they would look into it (even with no more NYS money) and I haven't heard anything since. And I truly believe Buffalo will get that money for a new stadium before Syracuse will. We had our chance and we passed, or should I say the mayor of syracuse passed.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Has there been more recent talk about this stadium? because I seem to be seeing this a lot more recently but I haven't seen anything since it last came up and was shot down. Then syvurd came out and said they would look into it (even with no more NYS money) and I haven't heard anything since. And I truly believe Buffalo will get that money for a new stadium before Syracuse will. We had our chance and we passed, or should I say the mayor of syracuse passed.

Maybe we can include investment into a new stadium as part of the mayors Billion dollar dream to Andrew Cuomo. Instead of redoing all of the water pipes in the city of syracuse for $750Mil and investing $100Mil on cheap internet we could use some of that money and help build a new stadium.

 

[CU44SE]

Maybe we can include investment into a new stadium as part of the mayors Billion dollar dream to Andrew Cuomo. Instead of redoing all of the water pipes in the city of syracuse for $750Mil and investing $100Mil on cheap internet we could use some of that money and help build a new stadium.

Im sorry, did I say anything that wasn't true? Did the mayor pass or did she not pass? I did not state any opinion in my comment, did not state weather I believe she should of said yes or no to the stadium, I simply made a factual statement that the mayor passed on the project. I didn't say they should or shouldn't build the stadium, I was simply asking if there was more talk about building a stadium.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Im sorry, did I say anything that wasn't true? Did the mayor pass or did she not pass? I did not state any opinion in my comment, did not state weather I believe she should of said yes or no to the stadium, I simply made a factual statement that the mayor passed on the project. I didn't say they should or shouldn't build the stadium, I was simply asking if there was more talk about building a stadium.

I was just offering a suggestion i mean no disrespect. I have heard nothing about the stadium since last year.

 

[Stern]

I like DG he just failed on FB which sucks but a fact. I would keep Dr.Gross and just fire the FB staff.

So true. When Gross hires his next football head coach (probably 12 months from now) he needs a Football Czar to help him in the decision making process (and NOT Lloyd Carr either.) And with all due respect to Floyd Little and Chris Gedney they should have no say in the decision as they are too close to the situation and probably can't see the forest from the trees at this point. I want a total outsider in this role. Gross needs to reach out to a Tom Coughlin (obvious name for obvious reasons ,who will probably be retired and who is an alum) or someone on that level to help him with the next hire.

 

[CU44SE]

I was just offering a suggestion i mean no disrespect. I have heard nothing about the stadium since last year.

I apologize, I took it as an attack. I know some people take politics very seriously and it can get out of hand, its something I was trying to avoid in this conversation. Wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or not and went into defense mode.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I apologize, I took it as an attack. I know some people take politics very seriously and it can get out of hand, its something I was trying to avoid in this conversation.

There was an editorial on syracuse.com about the mayors plan. The governor is asking for cities to propose a billion dollar investment plan much life buffalo did. The mayor wanted most of it for infrastructure.

 

[cuseinchina]

His title is Athletic Director. Not Football/Basketball/Lacrosse Director. Have his football coaching choices been questionable (at best)? Yes. But take a look at women's hoops, FH, women's lax, XC, etc. Just because you don't care about these sports, doesn't mean no one does. Again, it is an Athletic Department, not a Football Department, no matter what sport pays the bills. And looking at it that way, he has been very successful.

In any revenue dependent operation you need to make sure you are taking care of the stuff that brings in the cash first. If you aren't doing that you can do plenty of other things right but it won't matter.

In any organization that depends on brand value, you need to make sure you protect and enhance the value of that brand. Since most people care about football and basketball, an inordinate amount of time, attention, and resources should necessarily flow in that direction. And if you mess up football you are harming the brand.

I'd call that failure.