House vs NCAA (lacrosse)

[Powellfan]

Perhaps one benefit from this ruling, Syracuse’s very high tuition costs will become less of a factor for recruits if they are getting a full ride. Obviously depends on how many scholarships the Orange decide to hand out, but if fully funded, a recruit won’t have to let cost be a factor in their decision making.

Very curious to see how this all plays out. To go from 12.6 scholarships to 48 in one year is wild to me. Getting a full ride to play lacrosse used to be a humongous deal. Now it will become common place. Good for the student athletes.

Roster management will be interesting to watch. Will players not living up to the hype get cut due to roster limits? There will not be a lot of wiggle room on a 48 man roster. What does the transfer portal look like when you need to have tradeoffs? Will recruiting classes be smaller and take longer to build?

There will be haves and have nots, who will they be and how will we know? (Which players are getting scholarship money now is a mystery, to say nothing of NIL deals).

Syracuse has been spending thr most money of any DI team on lacrosse for as long as I can remember, but this is a whole new ballgame. Will the athletic department make the commitment to the program that I’m sure other big money schools will? I hope so!

 

[FloridaCuse]

Perhaps one benefit from this ruling, Syracuse’s very high tuition costs will become less of a factor for recruits if they are getting a full ride. Obviously depends on how many scholarships the Orange decide to hand out, but if fully funded, a recruit won’t have to let cost be a factor in their decision making.

Very curious to see how this all plays out. To go from 12.6 scholarships to 48 in one year is wild to me. Getting a full ride to play lacrosse used to be a humongous deal. Now it will become common place. Good for the student athletes.

Roster management will be interesting to watch. Will players not living up to the hype get cut due to roster limits? There will not be a lot of wiggle room on a 48 man roster. What does the transfer portal look like when you need to have tradeoffs? Will recruiting classes be smaller and take longer to build?

There will be haves and have nots, who will they be and how will we know? (Which players are getting scholarship money now is a mystery, to say nothing of NIL deals).

Syracuse has been spending thr most money of any DI team on lacrosse for as long as I can remember, but this is a whole new ballgame. Will the athletic department make the commitment to the program that I’m sure other big money schools will? I hope so!

Excellent post. To add to it - will schools be able to start recruiting on Sept 1st for the class coming in the Fall of '26 without knowing how many scholarships they will have? Plus does this throw in the air the recruits who have verbally committed for the class coming in the Fall of '25 who are due to sign NLIs in December without knowing their scholarship status? It seems scholarships will have to be decided by NLI day.

 

[Whitey23]

Was interesting to see Rabil tweet that this was "game changing for lacrosse". While others said it put a barrier up for new schools adding programs.

Not sure what I think yet. Obviously good for student/athletes. And maybe the established programs?

 

[DoctahLexus]

If a school could in theory give out 48 full scholarships, then this just puts more emphasis on the resource battle in comparison to the battle for the best coaches, best recruiting/player development, etc. To me that is nothing but a major negative for the sport. I want Syracuse to be the best because we choose the best coaches, who have the best eye for talent on the recruiting trail, and then turn that group into the best team. This just solidifies the money battle as a key factor in recruiting the best talent.

The thought of a school working with potentially dozens less scholarships just because the administration is unwilling/unable to fork over the cash is disturbing. Further reduces factors like the coaches ability to identify talent and make a strong pitch for the school.

I guess with 5 star players who are already expecting to receive a full ride this does not change things too much? Maybe that battle for 4 star type talent favors the bigger schools with more scholarships. More situations for 4 star talent where blue blood school A is offering a full ride and a mid level school is only offering half.

It will be a chess match choosing how to use them. But i want the focus to be on the chess match on the field. Money was always a factor, but i hate that it is becoming a serious battle for who uses their money the best and spends the most. Bad day for the sport IMO

 

[wgdsr]

If a school could in theory give out 48 full scholarships, then this just puts more emphasis on the resource battle in comparison to the battle for the best coaches, best recruiting/player development, etc. To me that is nothing but a major negative for the sport. I want Syracuse to be the best because we choose the best coaches, who have the best eye for talent on the recruiting trail, and then turn that group into the best team. This just solidifies the money battle as a key factor in recruiting the best talent.

The thought of a school working with potentially dozens less scholarships just because the administration is unwilling/unable to fork over the cash is disturbing. Further reduces factors like the coaches ability to identify talent and make a strong pitch for the school.

I guess with 5 star players who are already expecting to receive a full ride this does not change things too much? Maybe that battle for 4 star type talent favors the bigger schools with more scholarships. More situations for 4 star talent where blue blood school A is offering a full ride and a mid level school is only offering half.

It will be a chess match choosing how to use them. But i want the focus to be on the chess match on the field. Money was always a factor, but i hate that it is becoming a serious battle for who uses their money the best and spends the most. Bad day for the sport IMO

firstly, i'm surprised all the time, but i'll be really surprised if lacrosse becomes some fully funded race.

2nd, respectfully, fans like us of bluebloods are taking an awful lot for granted by taking away that this is a straw breaking the camel's back move. 'cuse, uva, others have tons of advantages over the hobarts, albanys, colgates and vmis of the world. we love it and can't wait to crush or at least win most of those meetings every year. this is merely a continuation of that. imo.

 

[DoctahLexus]

firstly, i'm surprised all the time, but i'll be really surprised if lacrosse becomes some fully funded race.

2nd, respectfully, fans like us of bluebloods are taking an awful lot for granted by taking away that this is a straw breaking the camel's back move. 'cuse, uva, others have tons of advantages over the hobarts, albanys, colgates and vmis of the world. we love it and can't wait to crush or at least win most of those meetings every year. this is merely a continuation of that. imo.

The extra money bluebloods spend on lacrosse has always been a factor, but that money goes to things like coaches pay and facilities. To have the opportunity to throw more money directly at scholarships on top of all the rest could have a significant impact. NIL opportunities have had a similar effect, but this is a direct choice by the school admin on how much money they want to throw down for recruits.

A 4 star recruits choice in previous years may have been receive an offer from Syracuse/Duke/UVA but no scholarship or get a full ride from Richmond. Now it’s more likely for those schools to have the funds for a half or even full ride for the kid, which sweetens the deal in their favor. Even if they are not the primarily focus of that schools recruiting class they can still get a scholarship. Being a reserve player not on scholarship sounds a lot worse to a kid/his family than reserve player with a full ride.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

Is it safe to say that Syracuse brings in more money from lacrosse ticket sales than most?

 

[wgdsr]

The extra money bluebloods spend on lacrosse has always been a factor, but that money goes to things like coaches pay and facilities. To have the opportunity to throw more money directly at scholarships on top of all the rest could have a significant impact. NIL opportunities have had a similar effect, but this is a direct choice by the school admin on how much money they want to throw down for recruits.

A 4 star recruits choice in previous years may have been receive an offer from Syracuse/Duke/UVA but no scholarship or get a full ride from Richmond. Now it’s more likely for those schools to have the funds for a half or even full ride for the kid, which sweetens the deal in their favor. Even if they are not the primarily focus of that schools recruiting class they can still get a scholarship. Being a reserve player not on scholarship sounds a lot worse to a kid/his family than reserve player with a full ride.

we could go back and forth on scenarios that benefit tier 1, tier 2, etc. schools here. cuse/duke/uva will now have to drop a player (or 1 1/2 players) to offer richmond's guy, who likely is similar in recruit profile to the new guy. richmond might also be able to squeeze a partial now to not lose a guy fairfield offered more to.

my point is there is a tier 1 and 2 and 3, and it's not limited to hiring coaches and facilities. and even those are exactly what this is, program commitment. there are haves and have nots. and want to haves. only now, teams won't be able to keep 60 of them.

 

[FloridaCuse]

For those of you who subscribe to the NYTimes or The Athletic, there's an article this morning titled "Big win for the Big East? House settlement unknowns have college basketball coaches worried". Here's a link --

For college basketball coaches, historic House settlement comes with key unknowns

Men’s basketball is expected to be second in line behind football, and its coaches are already wondering what their allotment looks like.

www.nytimes.com

Some of the points made in the article:
-- The Big East coaches think they have an advantage because their school don't have to spend scholarship money on football players
-- SEC basketball coaches have been buzzing about this nightmare scenerio since last year
-- But it points out that the media revenue earned by the Big East schools is far less than earned by the Power 4 schools
-- "Based on the formula for back-pay distribution put forth Friday, somewhere between 80 to 90 percent of the total damages paid out by the NCAA will go to former football and men’s basketball athletes from power conferences."
-- John Calipari has made the point that the bulk of the pack-pay settlement is coming out of funds from the NCAA Basketball Tournament and 70% is slated to go to former football players. He says how does that make sense? Aren't they risking a lawsuit by the former basketball players?
-- By adding $20-23 million dollars to a college athletic dept, how are they going to balance the budget? It adds "a good chunk of the new pay-for-play budget will have to come through fundraising."
-- This may result in an end to the facilities arms race as athletic departments are going to need to spend the money on players, not facilities.
-- "What will not change: Donors will still be footing a chunk of the bill, and the leagues with the most revenue and richest donors will still have an advantage."
-- When UConn BB coach Danny Hurley was told of the concern about the Big East from coaches in other conferences, he said they should be more concerned that Big East teams have won the last four out of eight NCAA BB Championships.

Lots to discuss and consider. I've been wondering if Syracuse might have some advantage over some other schools in not sponsoring as many sports. Such as no baseball, wrestling, golf and other teams that other schools have.

 

[ColdAnger]

Roster limits prevent stockpiling but also create developmental challenges as higher level backups spend more time running scout team versus your own schemes. Injury management also becomes more important.

The transfer portal becomes even more important. Some top recruits don’t pan out. Some get injured. Some fall through the recruiting cracks and blossom at a second or third tier program. Some will want to test themselves at the highest level programs. Some will be opportunistic and seek to level up academically/reputationally.

I believe there will be an inevitable competitive race to full funding of 48 scholarships in the ACC for Men’s Lacrosse. Beyond that, the athletic departments can pay athletes and this is where the program-to-program, player-to-player variability will get interesting.

What is the value of men’s lacrosse at Syracuse relative to the other non-revenue programs AND how does that relative value compare to other top tier programs. I think athletic departments will be asking themselves “What investment do I need to make in Sport X to be win titles/be relevant/be competitive/maintain a program?” And then allocate based upon a return model.

I think Syracuse Men’s lacrosse fairs very well in this analysis as a “Top 4” program at the university. A lot more competition for relevance at UVA, Duke, UNC, ND, Penn St, Ohio St, and Michigan. While maybe similarly valued at MD and less valued than at Hop.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Hopefully lengthening the season is next it ends way too early.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I think there could be an arms race that leads to the big names adding more scholarships, but do we really think it goes all the way up to 48? That is a major increase in money the schools would shell out for lacrosse. Some schools could be getting up to 25-30+ scholarships while others are not even using the full 12. I know it was unequal before, but this is nothing but bad for the sport and putting a bigger rift between the haves and have nots than we have seen previously.

 

[ColdAnger]

I think there could be an arms race that leads to the big names adding more scholarships, but do we really think it goes all the way up to 48? That is a major increase in money the schools would shell out for lacrosse. Some schools could be getting up to 25-30+ scholarships while others are not even using the full 12. I know it was unequal before, but this is nothing but bad for the sport and putting a bigger rift between the haves and have nots than we have seen previously.

If ND and UVA go to 48, for example, how do the other ACC schools not match. If the Big10 schools go to 48 because their budgets allow, how do the ACC schools not match and retain their top tier status. That’s why I think it inevitably becomes 48 full in the ACC.

I think the cost will be passed on through tuition increases. There are about 700 athletes at Syracuse (all currently fielded sports) and tuition is about $64k that equals a ~$45M nut to cover if all athletes are 100% scholarship. Add to that the $23M in revenue sharing and it’s a $68M nut.

Syracuse has about 23,000 students. If 2000 of those students pay zero tuition (merit, need, athletic, whatever) and the remaining share the $68M burden it adds $1,620 per semester to the tuition bill.

Would students and families be willing to spend $1,620 extra per semester to have college football, basketball, lacrosse, etc?

Thus, I think we get to full scholarship and full revenue share in the Power 4 rather quickly.

 

[wgdsr]

If ND and UVA go to 48, for example, how do the other ACC schools not match. If the Big10 schools go to 48 because their budgets allow, how do the ACC schools not match and retain their top tier status. That’s why I think it inevitably becomes 48 full in the ACC.

I think the cost will be passed on through tuition increases. There are about 700 athletes at Syracuse (all currently fielded sports) and tuition is about $64k that equals a ~$45M nut to cover if all athletes are 100% scholarship. Add to that the $23M in revenue sharing and it’s a $68M nut.

Syracuse has about 23,000 students. If 2000 of those students pay zero tuition (merit, need, athletic, whatever) and the remaining share the $68M burden it adds $1,620 per semester to the tuition bill.

Would students and families be willing to spend $1,620 extra per semester to have college football, basketball, lacrosse, etc?

Thus, I think we get to full scholarship and full revenue share in the Power 4 rather quickly.

the first $2.5 million in new scholarships will draw down the $21.5, as will the $2.5 - 3 million in annual payoff to old nil obligations in settlement. so after the 22 scholarships that are most definitely going to football and basketball, an expensive school like syracuse will have a choice to pay out more scholarships or pay players (in football and basketball). they'll likely have to throw women a bone for several. beyond that? hoo knows?

but i'd be taking all kinds of action that schools aren't racing to fully fund non-revenue sports at a time when they need to start pulling $20+ million out of thin air.

and acc schools with who knows what's next? i mean, c'mon.

 

[LaxDoc]

Title IX will be the issue driving this particularly for schools with big football programs to achieve parity across mens and women's sports. .

 

[wgdsr]

Title IX will be the issue driving this particularly for schools with big football programs to achieve parity across mens and women's sports. .

there is no such thing in today's title ix as parity. 83% of the old nil settlement dollars will be going to football and basketball. similar amounts from this for future payments to current athletes. football coaches with 8 and 9 figure contracts. 9 figure football facilities. more scholarships and spots for men when they make up 40-45% of the student pop.

title ix will be a pimple. the one thing it will give is protection that women's non-revs will be extremely difficult to cut. men's, maybe not so much.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Excellent post. To add to it - will schools be able to start recruiting on Sept 1st for the class coming in the Fall of '26 without knowing how many scholarships they will have? Plus does this throw in the air the recruits who have verbally committed for the class coming in the Fall of '25 who are due to sign NLIs in December without knowing their scholarship status? It seems scholarships will have to be decided by NLI day.

And will the SEC now start their own Lax programs? Wouldn’t that be a hoot. They’ve destroyed everything else. Might as well take Lax too. (Sarcasm). Just can’t see the good ol boys down there taking to an East Coast dominated sport. They want to own football and hoops.

I honestly don’t even think the BIG will go overboard on Lax. Unless they can get their new PAC12 programs to invest in the sport, that is. I don’t think any of the other schools much care, which is why they had to get Hopkins for an auto bid.

 

[Powellfan]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I hope we're well endowed.

 

[Troughin']

I hope we're well endowed.

That's what she said.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

Not sure why he thinks they will only add 1 to 2 scholarships when they can have the entire roster on a full ride if they wanted. I’m hoping Cuse adds more than the others so they have an edge in recruiting.

 

[wgdsr]

Not sure why he thinks they will only add 1 to 2 scholarships when they can have the entire roster on a full ride if they wanted. I’m hoping Cuse adds more than the others so they have an edge in recruiting.

because syracuse and many others now have to come up with up to $20 million they didn't have yesterday (or at least a respectable amount) to compete with football and basketball schools that will.
and their ROI on lacrosse is negative.

 

[DoctahLexus]

because syracuse and many others now have to come up with up to $20 million they didn't have yesterday (or at least a respectable amount) to compete with football and basketball schools that will.
and their ROI on lacrosse is negative.

So do you see major football schools with cash lying around making more of a move here? OSU/Michigan/ND for instance

 

[wgdsr]

So do you see major football schools with cash lying around making more of a move here? OSU/Michigan/ND for instance

good question, and the boring answer is hoo knows? calls for even more speculation than what we're all doing already. there are so many factors (and they are mostly qualitative and subjective on participants) and under a shifting landscape, that 100% won't stop shifting.

but ok, assume a couple things... this is the construct, gets approved as is (for awhile). take osu and mich:
- you can say they don't care "as much" as cuse about lax, but they've sponsored the sport when many p5s don't.
- flip side their investment: umich was only started after 8 figures was raised to endow. osu new facility only done after money raised (>$20 mill). these are 2 of the richest 5 schools in the country, and they made them pay the department for a lot of it.
- next, both schools although swimming in cash, are about to get about a $30-40m pay raise minimum with their new media and cfp deals. they still need places to spend money. the cap? that's a % of an average of p5 schools revenue, and each of theirs is 2+× that. maybe 3x.

so go back to foy's article, which is very good. endowing scholarships. i don't want to go down the rabbit hole of athletic department accounting, which is it's own animal and not seen anywhere else, but largely this is how ath dept's operate. the main question may be whether there is a whale (or multiple baby whales) that can make it happen. these schools aren't gonna rule this out because $20 million is a pimple. they have their cash coming in in perpetuity, and they know it. 48 no way (imo), but decent bump very possible. as it is, they sponsor a lot of sports because they like to, they can, and branding.

notre dame not as similar. they are much tighter with their cash. for lax at least.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I mean we can get very good D1 players willing to pay tuition to be #25-48 on the roster and realistically never play as is. Whats going to change that makes us better giving them full rides? Of course loosening things up after the current limits and having another 10-20 to give out will help and we'll use them but after that you're just giving guys schollies so they can inevitably transfer out somewhere to play.

I want D1 mens lax to be treated like pro sports ASAP. The pro lacrosse leagues suck I don't really like baseball. Rotating to a different city every week really? Boston games looked packed but I was busy and its overkill that much in a weekend. Double the number of games get them on TV play midweek etc. Its a sport I consume a lot of when it goes up h2h with more popular ones and I watch more neutral college lax than anything else. Sooner this happens the better.

No athletes go home for the summer they all get their credits during summer sessions lax should go mid March-July.