How did Kansas State get so good since last Pin Stripe Bowl

[kirbivore]

No . Snyder is a possible hall of famer. You might want to check out his record the first 4 years as a head coach.

1 and 10
5 and 6
7 and 4
5 and 6

I'm guessing he should have been canned with a record like that.

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Kansas St. sucked for like 50 years before Snyder got there, like 50 years of GRob level football. Total rebuild. Since they played in a real conference (Big 8 then Big 12) part of the strategy was playing OOC cupcakes that Shady would be ashamed to play.

 

[CIL]

This is what I don't get - whenever anyone points out that coaches like Beamer at VT didn't start out with great records at the start of their careers, posters like Stern try to argue that the world has changed, things move faster, and all that matters is now. But when arguing from the opposite side, 6-6 records from five years before Marrone starting coaching set the minimum bar on how Marrone should perform out of the gate. Because history suddenly matters. It's picking an agenda and the facts that support it.

Syracuse sucked moose balls during the GRob era. Absolutely putrid. Guys are underestimating how much damage that did to the Syracuse "brand" with recruits. In the eyes of recruits, we are still Duke. This was not a highly desired job when Marrone was hired; it certainly wouldn't be more desirable if Syracuse fired a guy that within the coaching community appears to be respected. It would look like Syracuse is a school where careers go to die. So we fire Marrone, who comes here? Most likely a coach that's already been fired multiple places and is damaged goods; nobody with an upward career trajectory is coming here. So we become (or maybe remain) Duke - great in hoops, the annual homecoming game for schools in football.

I don't know that Marrone is the right guy to turn around Syracuse football...but I'm fairly confident that firing him would mean Syracuse football has no chance at being competitive.

We actually lost out on a few recruits to Duke during that era.

 

[Stern]

I don't know that Marrone is the right guy to turn around Syracuse football...but I'm fairly confident that firing him would mean Syracuse football has no chance at being competitive.

So giving him an extension and watching him lose for another 5 years is a good thing? You would rather do that? I don't want Marrone fired now, but if we suck again next year I would rather fire him and take my shot with someone else. The job might not be "desirable" as you say (which I disagree with)...but sitting around and doing nothing but hope on a guy who 4 years in would be failing isn't the bet approach.

 

[Maxsumm]

Kansas St has for years gone the JUCO route more than probably any other D1 program and the strategy has worked. He knows getting kids to come to the 'little apple' as freshman is hard in comparison to UT/OU so he gets JUCOs with a chip on their shoulder and are ready to compete from day 1. Downside is you only get players for 2 yrs upside is they are ready day 1. This has also been marquette's strategy in basketball FYI. Given out complete lack of recruiting success lately it's a strategy I think we should consider at least to guess a buzz around this program again. The job should be easier here as we've got history and ACC membership. The best players in this program the last two years were all GROB recruits and I didn't see any young players outplaying them for time. I say go JUCO more ASAP.

 

[kingottoiii]

So giving him an extension and watching him lose for another 5 years is a good thing? You would rather do that? I don't want Marrone fired now, but if we suck again next year I would rather fire him and take my shot with someone else. The job might not be "desirable" as you say (which I disagree with)...but sitting around and doing nothing but hope on a guy who 4 years in would be failing isn't the bet approach.

We should extend him 2 years during the Spring. This next recruiting class is supposed to be his break through class. Why hamstring him by having him be a lame duck and have kids turned off by our lack of commitment? Wouldn't it hurt the program more to have a crappy recruiting class for the next HC? At the end of next year if Marrone has a crappy season and hasn't delivered on the recruiting trail, you can still fire him. If he has a mediocre year and has a mediocre class, then you can give him a 5th year where all the kids are his players. If that isn't a breakthrough year on the field, then fire him. IMO there is more harm in not extending him than there is by leaving him dangling out there.

 

[Czar]

It is an awful comparison. K St from 1974-1988 had one season with more than 4 wins. That is one in fifteen seasons. BS after four years had THREE of them. That is a fireable offense when they are at their programs PEAK? What would be the rational to bail on him?

In comparison SU from 2002-2008 had two seasons with 6 wins. That is two in 7 seasons. After 3 seasons Marrone has one of them. So he is currently running at par to what happened the 7 years prior. Which happens to be our programs BOTTOM. You think those two are the same?

Not to mention Marrone is coaching in by far the worst BCS conference and that his 8 W season was inflated by playing two 1AA teams. Had SU played VT like they were scheduled and lost, would people be have been as excited with a 6-6 regular season? In terms of Bowl eligibility Marrone has gone 4-8, 6-5, and 5-7 in his three years. That looks to me like what got Coach P fired.

You miss my point. Until Snyder got there the first time, Kansas State was one of the worst programs of all time. Syracuse has actually been good, won championships. Snyder got a lifetime pass because he did what no one else had ever done there. He's in a Tom Osborne situation. In comparison, Marrone is simply a new coach in a place that hasn't always been complete ass. This is not Kansas State where success has been impossible except after one coach. It's been done multiple times in multiple era's. That's the issue.

 

[orangecuse]

We actually lost out on a few recruits to Duke during that era.

Makes sense. If I was a kid with a scholarship offer to Duke or SU, with the reality of professional ball, well, not being a reality, I would've choosen the more prestigous degree route too...

 

[SWC75]

Yeah but he was playing in a REAL football conference vs LEGIT Top 25 competition. Doug is playing against the little sisters of the poor in the Big East.

Can't compare the starts of their careers, its not fair

You're missing the point. I'm sure that there were plenty of K-State fans would didn't think he was "the guy" at that point- just another one of their many failures. Nobody said "but we're in the Big 8 so it's OK."

But the administration stuck with him and it paid off.

 

[SWC75]

So giving him an extension and watching him lose for another 5 years is a good thing? You would rather do that? I don't want Marrone fired now, but if we suck again next year I would rather fire him and take my shot with someone else. The job might not be "desirable" as you say (which I disagree with)...but sitting around and doing nothing but hope on a guy who 4 years in would be failing isn't the bet approach.

It's not a good thing if you assume he's going to "lose for another five years". The guy has won some games, too.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Synder is a great college coach who has had ups and downs in his tenure at KState. SU beat a good KState team last year that was primed to improve this year. And while I'm not familiar with KState's schedule this year I question the overall strength of the Big12.

The thought has never even crossed my mind that HCDM's job is somehow on the line after this season. Am I more concerned than one year ago? Absolutely. Next year is important for the program and coach, and a winning season is expected. But 5-7 this year, even with the 5 consecutive loses to end the season, isn't all that surprising especially considering that most people on here predicted 7-5 or even 6-6. The offense was a disappointment and needs to improve. I'm looking forward to seeing how coach approaches the offense next year, and I look forward to a defense that is closer to 2010 than 2009.

 

[Aweart23]

It's not a good thing if you assume he's going to "lose for another five years". The guy has won some games, too.

Exactly...I wonder if the DM bashers have just completely wiped last year out of their brains...or the first half of this year

 

[Stern]

You're missing the point. I'm sure that there were plenty of K-State fans would didn't think he was "the guy" at that point- just another one of their many failures. Nobody said "but we're in the Big 8 so it's OK."

But the administration stuck with him and it paid off.

Every situation is different. That's the point. Being in the Big 8 bought Snyder some extra time because its a real conference with good teams that were nationally ranked. The fact he was making leaps (by their standards) in THAT conference at THAT time was remarkable. Being in the Big East with the worst of the worst and bottom feeders of BCS level schools doesn't buy Doug any extra time. SU plays a mediocre to weak schedule. The conference schedule sucks and the out of conference teams (with the exception of USC or Penn St every now and then) are nothing special (Wake, Northwestern Tulane, Rhode Island, Akron, Colgate, Maine, Toledo, Minnesota, ..etc...).

It's night and day. To compare their situations is foolish. Doug has it much much easier therefore he doesn't, shouldn't, and probably won't get the longer leash that Snyder did!

 

[SWC75]

Every situation is different. That's the point. Being in the Big 8 bought Snyder some extra time because its a real conference with good teams that were nationally ranked. The fact he was making leaps (by their standards) in THAT conference at THAT time was remarkable. Being in the Big East with the worst of the worst and bottom feeders of BCS level schools doesn't buy Doug any extra time. SU plays a mediocre to weak schedule. The conference schedule sucks and the out of conference teams (with the exception of USC or Penn St every now and then) are nothing special (Wake, Northwestern Tulane, Rhode Island, Akron, Colgate, Maine, Toledo, Minnesota, ..etc...).

It's night and day. To compare their situations is foolish. Doug has it much much easier therefore he doesn't, shouldn't, and probably won't get the longer leash that Snyder did!

So schools in weaker conferences fire their coaches more frequently because they have less of an excuse for losing whereas schools in strongers conferences are more patient because they realize how hard it is to win in their conferences. Do you really believe that?

 

[kingottoiii]

Exactly...I wonder if the DM bashers have just completely wiped last year out of their brains...or the first half of this year

I wish people would realize that he is 8-20 vs BCS teams during the season. His "good" year he was 4-5. A .286 winning % isn't going to get you to many Bowls.

 

[Stern]

So schools in weaker conferences fire their coaches more frequently because they have less of an excuse for losing whereas schools in strongers conferences are more patient because they realize how hard it is to win in their conferences. Do you really believe that?

Never said that at all. I said you must look at the different circumstances when making a decision. It's not as black or white as "strong conference or weak conference." It's one of the criteria though, yes!

 

[kcsu]

I have posted this in the past but would not give him an extension in the spring unless he agreed to a small buyout. say 500k per year. The big differance this time around is the ACC. This will allow us to hire a very good coach much better position this time around. If Doug is such a solid SU guy i would think that he would go for an extension with a lower buy out. If not than i would see how next year unfolds. Trust me if he is winning early in the season we can extend him and he will do just fine with recruits. If on the other hand we extend him in the spring and he tanks next year he isnt going to be able to recruit anyway

 

[OrangeZone]

...yup the team we beat...played well against...ends in the top 10-20 this year. What. How is it Kansas State's play shot straight up while 'Cuse headed down. We didn't lose that many players...Kansas State didn't gain many new starters...so tell me...what happened...how could the fortunes of two realtively equal teams go in such opposite directions in less than a year...I am all ears! HELP

The KSU coach is a master of working the JUCO ranks for players who are able to come in and contribute. That has been a consistent recruiting strategy both prior to his earlier retirement and now with his return as head coach.
Coach Marrone has chosen the slower growth pathway of sticking mostly with recruits from high school or prep. school. Part of this is geographic; KSU is closer to JUCO powers than are we.

Now as to your 'Cuse headed down' assumption; it's way to early to determine how Coach Marrone's tenure will play out.

Do you recall the "Sac Mac" campaign to get now venerable Coach Mac?

Enough said.