Class of 2016 How Dino Babers overhauled Syracuse football's 2016 recruiting class

[Antiprodigy]

It isn't apples to apples. You can't compare what Shafer had this year with what Babers has gotten. How good do you think Babers class would be if he was on a one year contract? Everyone knew Shafer was playing out the string, and the odds were stacked against him coming back. The fairest comparison will be Babers class next year to Shafer's 2015 class. When we see what Babers get next year, we should have a much clearer indication of how much of an upgrade Babers will be. Anything else before that is purely conjecture and for the most part, just noise.

Cheer if you want too, Boo if you don't. But the proof will be on NSD next year. If you believe the hype. If you wait for actual results, you need to wait for at least four years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I understand that position. Unfortuately, coming off 9 wins in 2 years, I'm expecting that we will need to have several of the incoming kids make significant contributions in 2016. That scenario would also give us some indication of this staff's ability to judge talent.

Other than at defensive end, I'm not actually sure we'll need a lot of freshmen playing.

Unless of course the holdovers really, really are square pegs for round holes.

 

[orangenauburn]

It isn't apples to apples. You can't compare what Shafer had this year with what Babers has gotten. How good do you think Babers class would be if he was on a one year contract? Everyone knew Shafer was playing out the string, and the odds were stacked against him coming back. The fairest comparison will be Babers class next year to Shafer's 2015 class. When we see what Babers get next year, we should have a much clearer indication of how much of an upgrade Babers will be. Anything else before that is purely conjecture and for the most part, just noise.

Cheer if you want too, Boo if you don't. But the proof will be on NSD next year. If you believe the hype. If you wait for actual results, you need to wait for at least four years.

True

But you can compare HCSS transition to this one -- and it is night and day in Babers favor. HCSS was a continuity coach coming off multiple bowl wins in the preceding years, whereas Babers is coming in to a 3 and 4 win team with questionable depth in key areas, and scorch earthed the program and has essentially rebuilt it in a month.

 

[Antiprodigy]

True

But you can compare HCSS transition to this one -- and it is night and day in Babers favor. HCSS was a continuity coach coming off multiple bowl wins in the preceding years, whereas Babers is coming in to a 3 and 4 win team with questionable depth in key areas, and scorch earthed the program and has essentially rebuilt it in a month.

It is true that Shafer inherited a team that had won more games. It is also true that I am far from an expert at football talent. However, I have read many posts on here claiming that Marrone did not leave a very deep team in several key areas, much like Babers is inheriting. I certainly think it it close enough that judging 2015 to Babers recruits next year will be the best judge of improvement in the program.

 

[007]

Other than at defensive end, I'm not actually sure we'll need a lot of freshmen playing.

Unless of course the holdovers really, really are square pegs for round holes.

Might see a Fr play at DE, Safety, LB, WR, and oh yeah, WR.

 

[SUFan44]

It isn't apples to apples. You can't compare what Shafer had this year with what Babers has gotten. How good do you think Babers class would be if he was on a one year contract? Everyone knew Shafer was playing out the string, and the odds were stacked against him coming back. The fairest comparison will be Babers class next year to Shafer's 2015 class. When we see what Babers get next year, we should have a much clearer indication of how much of an upgrade Babers will be. Anything else before that is purely conjecture and for the most part, just noise.

Cheer if you want too, Boo if you don't. But the proof will be on NSD next year. If you believe the hype. If you wait for actual results, you need to wait for at least four years.

I think the true comparison is how the team looks this year (and next) with the talent Babers was handed.

Babers has proven he can win with other coach's recruits. And I think/hope that will continue at SU.

And if it continues, his recruiting will improve. Which will be significant upgrade, based on what he has done in the little time he has had to basically rebuild this class.

 

[BKCuse]

Might see a Fr play at DE, Safety, LB, WR, and oh yeah, WR.

The more freshmen that play this year the better recruiting will be for the next class. Nothing a kid likes more than the chance to play early. That and the SEC

 

[Statesman1]

It isn't apples to apples. You can't compare what Shafer had this year with what Babers has gotten. How good do you think Babers class would be if he was on a one year contract? Everyone knew Shafer was playing out the string, and the odds were stacked against him coming back. The fairest comparison will be Babers class next year to Shafer's 2015 class. When we see what Babers get next year, we should have a much clearer indication of how much of an upgrade Babers will be. Anything else before that is purely conjecture and for the most part, just noise.

Cheer if you want too, Boo if you don't. But the proof will be on NSD next year. If you believe the hype. If you wait for actual results, you need to wait for at least four years.

Of course you can compare Shafer to Babers-especially in their transition year. Shafer wasn't on a 1 year contract, he was HC for three years and a coordinator before that. His body of work is what it is- not enough wins and not enough talent brought in. The unfortunate facts are what they are-there are not enough P5 bodies on this roster to compete and win games and Shafer is not blameless for that fact. He couldn't hold on to our top recruits, notably Edwards and Allen his first year- Babers not only held onto our top recruits he improved the rest of the class as well. Why not give him credit for that? So far Babers is off to a very good start- in contrast to his predecessor.

 

[PhatOrange]

True

But you can compare HCSS transition to this one -- and it is night and day in Babers favor. HCSS was a continuity coach coming off multiple bowl wins in the preceding years, whereas Babers is coming in to a 3 and 4 win team with questionable depth in key areas, and scorch earthed the program and has essentially rebuilt it in a month.

True and Shaf who was partially kept for continuity lost a handful of good recruits who flipped on him. Edwards to Miami, Allen to TCU, Laray smith to Indiana.

 

[721Comstock]

True and Shaf who was partially kept for continuity lost a handful of good recruits who flipped on him. Edwards to Miami, Allen to TCU, Laray smith to Indiana.

Have any of those guys done anything of note for their respective new schools?

 

[Finwad32]

True and Shaf who was partially kept for continuity lost a handful of good recruits who flipped on him. Edwards to Miami, Allen to TCU, Laray smith to Indiana.

And so far, Gus Edwards is really the only one to do anything. I'm interest to see what Richt does with him, he's talented.

 

[PAcuse]

Gus was hurt this year. Around 300 yards his first two years
Allen is a WR now and has done nothing
Laray is transferring Deleware St. He switched from RB to CB while at Indiana. Transferring to play RB.

 

[PhatOrange]

And so far, Gus Edwards is really the only one to do anything. I'm interest to see what Richt does with him, he's talented.

Laray always seemed to lean more towards track but who knows with anselmo and marrone here as well as the other NYC kids.

Zach Allen would've been given every opportunity to succeed here to. Every opportunity.

 

[SoBristol]

Of course you can compare Shafer to Babers-especially in their transition year. Shafer wasn't on a 1 year contract, he was HC for three years and a coordinator before that. His body of work is what it is- not enough wins and not enough talent brought in. The unfortunate facts are what they are-there are not enough P5 bodies on this roster to compete and win games and Shafer is not blameless for that fact. He couldn't hold on to our top recruits, notably Edwards and Allen his first year- Babers not only held onto our top recruits he improved the rest of the class as well. Why not give him credit for that? So far Babers is off to a very good start- in contrast to his predecessor.

We will have to see how much Babers improved the class. He lost the best QB prospect in my opinion (Lindsey Scott), his best offensive skill guys (Chapman & Neal) are carry-overs from Shafer, and he had to settle at WR when his high priority targets did not select SU. Jo-El Shaw is a good RB, but we will have to see how he compares to Frederick (2015 class). It might be that his OL commits are better than two he let de-commit and go to UConn -- but if they are better, it is not by a wide margin. I expect the LBs are better than the de-commits, but are they better than Franklin and Bennett from Shafer's 2014 class? Shafer's DL recruits in his 2014 and 2015 class seem strong as well -- not clear that Babers are as good, especially if Nelson bolts.

For fairness, Babers is off to a great start and he will have a chance to win with what Shafer has left to him. He aced his first press conference, has put together a very strong and young group of assistants, and a first year class that is comparable to Shafer's best class.

 

[Whitey23]

Have any of those guys done anything of note for their respective new schools?

Edwards was competing for a starting spot before suffering a season ending injury.

 

[CuseOnly]

Well, "show something" (if you watched games) meant Shafer's 2015 class had true frosh who played early and had an impact. Best frosh RB in years -- only comparison is Deleone Carter, and Fredericks had a better frosh year. Best frosh QB in a decade. Only true frosh DT to play in the rotation since Bromley. Stickland is a star in the making.
Obviously Shafer was hurt by his 2013 class (the transition from Marrone), and defections from a highly rated 2014 class, but don't discount the value of his 2015 class. As I wrote above, it would be terrific if Babers' first class proves out as well.

Guidice was in the rotation as well don't forget.

 

[SoBristol]

Guidice was in the rotation as well don't forget.

Yes, not comparable to Clark, but another Shafer recruit who was not highly rated by recruiting services, and should now contribute. Could mention Whitner as well, who stepped in at safety at the end of the season due to injuries to the starters.

 

[CousCuse]

The defense is getting different types of players because of a different scheme, can't really make any valid talent comparisons . The offense is Baber's stock in trade but really haven't gotten anything to rave about there .

 

[Statesman1]

We will have to see how much Babers improved the class. He lost the best QB prospect in my opinion (Lindsey Scott), his best offensive skill guys (Chapman & Neal) are carry-overs from Shafer, and he had to settle at WR when his high priority targets did not select SU. Jo-El Shaw is a good RB, but we will have to see how he compares to Frederick (2015 class). It might be that his OL commits are better than two he let de-commit and go to UConn -- but if they are better, it is not by a wide margin. I expect the LBs are better than the de-commits, but are they better than Franklin and Bennett from Shafer's 2014 class? Shafer's DL recruits in his 2014 and 2015 class seem strong as well -- not clear that Babers are as good, especially if Nelson bolts.

For fairness, Babers is off to a great start and he will have a chance to win with what Shafer has left to him. He aced his first press conference, has put together a very strong and young group of assistants, and a first year class that is comparable to Shafer's best class.

You're last comment regarding Baber's is what rings true to me: "a first year class that is comparable to Shafer's best class". Of course, we will have to wait to see how things pan out on the field but if the guy can put together a class in a month that is at least as good as Shafers best effort year 3 then I like the direction we are heading in. I'm not gonna kill Babers for losing Scott, he was gone no matter what once LSU offered and its obvious he was a plan C for Babers anyway-- Shafer would likely have lost him as well once Saban picked up the phone. Holding on to Chapman & Neal is to Babers' credit- unlike Shafer Babers was able to hold onto top guys. I like what Babers has done with this class in bringing in depth and quality- doesn't seem like there are too many reaches and the "diamonds in the rough" that Shafer was famous for taking chances on.

 

[Statesman1]

Shafer and everyone in the country knew that he was on the hot seat. I think that he made a smart move by offering early. As the season melt down began he couldnt upgrade. The early kids might have received better looks but at the end of the day if you are good there are plenty of schools that will find room.

So you're saying Shafer offered pedestrian kids early to play it safe hoping to upgrade later? I don't know Shafer's thinking on how the staff targeted recruits, but that sounds backwards to me. Why not target guys maybe a little out of our league and then fall back on guys we know we could get? Ultimately Shafer got the best recruits he could, end of story.