How would you rank ACC football teams by tier(alltime)

[Alsacs]

After having a healthy discussion about Virginia Tech I thought I would create this thread because I want to see how others would rank the teams alltime. I don't put that much weight to anything before 1964 and segregation ended, but people can rank the teams how they deem them to fall.


Tier 1: Florida State and Miami(national players)
These teams each have atleast 3 National Championships since 1983. Miami was the team of the 1980's, Florida State was arguably the team of the 1990's. Each has had 2 Heisman winners Jameis Winston, Charlie Ward and Gino Torretta, Vinny Testaverde






Tier 2: Virginia Tech, Clemson(top 25 programs)
Virginia Tech doesn't have much history prior to Beamer, but they have played in 7 Sugar/Orange Bowls since 1995, they have 9 conference title Big East/ACC during that time. Clemson has the 1981 NC, they have done well under Swinney, but only 2 major bowls since 1981. They are on an upswing, but don't have the body of work.



Tier 3: Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, Syracuse(all three have history, but not much recent success)
These schools have national titles in football and Pitt/Syracuse have Heisman winners and NCs. No major bowl wins for any since Syracuse in 1993 Fiesta Bowl.

Tier 4: Louisville, Boston College
Recent success from Louisville 2 BCS bowl wins since 2006, Boston College has a Heisman winner and been above average from a while

Tier 5: North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
This is the foundation of the ACC, but none of these teams have major bowls in the last 20 years or Heisman trophy's in their school history.

Note: I say a huge gap between tier 1 and 2 a decent gap between 2 and 3 and very little gap between tiers 3 and 5.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I'd probably just have 3 levels-combine 1 and 2 as VT has been head and shoulders above Miami for the last 10-15 years, and group BC and L'ville in the new Tier 2 w/ SU, Pitt, GT.

 

[cpatrocks]

1) Fl State and Clemson
2) Everyone else.

 

[Alsacs]

1) Fl State and Clemson
2) Everyone else.

This is just patently wrong. Miami has 5 NCs since 1983. They won it in 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001 and have played for the NC in 1986 and 2002(when the Luckeyes stole one from them).

If you think Clemson is above Miami that is crazy. Even most Clemson fans would acknowledge that. Miami has played for the NC 8 times since 1983, and have 2 Heisman winners to Clemson's 1 NC(1981) and 0 Heisman winners.

 

[sufandu]

After having a healthy discussion about Virginia Tech I thought I would create this thread because I want to see how others would rank the teams alltime. I don't put that much weight to anything before 1964 and segregation ended, but people can rank the teams how they deem them to fall.


Tier 1: Florida State and Miami(national players)
These teams each have atleast 3 National Championships since 1983. Miami was the team of the 1980's, Florida State was arguably the team of the 1990's. Each has had 2 Heisman winners Jameis Winston, Charlie Ward and Gino Torretta, Vinny Testaverde






Tier 2: Virginia Tech, Clemson(top 25 programs)
Virginia Tech doesn't have much history prior to Beamer, but they have played in 7 Sugar/Orange Bowls since 1995, they have 9 conference title Big East/ACC during that time. Clemson has the 1981 NC, they have done well under Swinney, but only 2 major bowls since 1981. They are on an upswing, but don't have the body of work.



Tier 3: Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, Syracuse(all three have history, but not much recent success)
These schools have national titles in football and Pitt/Syracuse have Heisman winners and NCs. No major bowl wins for any since Syracuse in 1993 Fiesta Bowl.

Tier 4: Louisville, Boston College
Recent success from Louisville 2 BCS bowl wins since 2006, Boston College has a Heisman winner and been above average from a while

Tier 5: North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
This is the foundation of the ACC, but none of these teams have major bowls in the last 20 years or Heisman trophy's in their school history.

Note: I say a huge gap between tier 1 and 2 a decent gap between 2 and 3 and very little gap between tiers 3 and 5.

Looks like a good arrangement to me. I don't think I could make a strong argument to switch anything around. I hate seeing VaTech above us, but I suppose their consistent performance the last 15 years combined with our decade of complete irrelevance makes it so.

 

[CanadianSU]

1) FSU
2) Clemson
3) VT, Miami, Syracuse, Louisville, GT
All the rest

 

[sufandu]

I'm surprised by the people putting Miami so low. How does a 5 time national champion rank below Clemson all time? Does the last 5 years erase everything that came before?

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

I'd put Louisville in Tier 2 based on their first Petrino years and the Charlie Strong era. I'd move UNC up to Tier 3 just on potential and perception. I'd move BC down to Tier 5, thus eliminating Tier 4.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm surprised by the people putting Miami so low. How does a 5 time national champion rank below Clemson all time? Does the last 5 years erase everything that came before?

Miami has struggled since Coker didn't have Butch Davis recruits, but that program is an alltime King program with 5 NCs and all since 1983. Their is too much talent in S. Florida for the Canes not to become an annual top 15 program. Golden had that NCAA investigation hanging over the program they are on the way back. The Canes are clearly a top 2 ACC program all-time even if they have struggled the last 5 years.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

I'd put Notre Dame in the top tier. I'd put Duke on the bottom all by themselves.

 

[OrangeMojo]

I'm surprised by the people putting Miami so low. How does a 5 time national champion rank below Clemson all time? Does the last 5 years erase everything that came before?

I think a lot of folks are missing or ignoring the (alltime) qualifier in the title - clearly if you look at alltime, then putting Clemson alone above everyone else including Miami is silly

 

[orange_in_VA]

After having a healthy discussion about Virginia Tech I thought I would create this thread because I want to see how others would rank the teams alltime. I don't put that much weight to anything before 1964 and segregation ended, but people can rank the teams how they deem them to fall.


Tier 1: Florida State and Miami(national players)
These teams each have atleast 3 National Championships since 1983. Miami was the team of the 1980's, Florida State was arguably the team of the 1990's. Each has had 2 Heisman winners Jameis Winston, Charlie Ward and Gino Torretta, Vinny Testaverde






Tier 2: Virginia Tech, Clemson(top 25 programs)
Virginia Tech doesn't have much history prior to Beamer, but they have played in 7 Sugar/Orange Bowls since 1995, they have 9 conference title Big East/ACC during that time. Clemson has the 1981 NC, they have done well under Swinney, but only 2 major bowls since 1981. They are on an upswing, but don't have the body of work.



Tier 3: Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, Syracuse(all three have history, but not much recent success)
These schools have national titles in football and Pitt/Syracuse have Heisman winners and NCs. No major bowl wins for any since Syracuse in 1993 Fiesta Bowl.

Tier 4: Louisville, Boston College
Recent success from Louisville 2 BCS bowl wins since 2006, Boston College has a Heisman winner and been above average from a while

Tier 5: North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
This is the foundation of the ACC, but none of these teams have major bowls in the last 20 years or Heisman trophy's in their school history.

Note: I say a huge gap between tier 1 and 2 a decent gap between 2 and 3 and very little gap between tiers 3 and 5.

Your list seems recent history biased a little bit. Tier 1 makes the most sense, but Tiers 2-4 could be interchangable. Louisville has great recent success, but since they have only played real competition for around 10 years I would drop them down into Tier 5 (3) until they earn it in a real conference. That being said with all the money and ACC affiliation, I see them quickly climbing the tiers. Combine Tiers 2-4, minus Louisville, making just 3 Tiers. Virginia Tech has Zero Heisman trophies and Zero National titles, plus poor showings in Bowls and other big games make me value them less then some. A good fanbase and fertile recruiting grounds do not overshadow their historical shortcomings when put into perspective, in my opinion.

Tier 1: Florida State and Miami
Tier 2: VT, Clemson, Pitt, GT, Cuse, BC
Tier 3: Everyone else.

 

[cpatrocks]

This is just patently wrong. Miami has 5 NCs since 1983. They won it in 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001 and have played for the NC in 1986 and 2002(when the Luckeyes stole one from them).

If you think Clemson is above Miami that is crazy. Even most Clemson fans would acknowledge that. Miami has played for the NC 8 times since 1983, and have 2 Heisman winners to Clemson's 1 NC(1981) and 0 Heisman winners.

I read the question more as a recent ranking, not all time.

 

[TampaNole]

Tier 1: Florida State and Miami(national players)
These teams each have atleast 3 National Championships since 1983. Miami was the team of the 1980's, Florida State was arguably the team of the 1990's. Each has had at least 2 Heisman winners Jameis Winston, Charlie Ward, Chris Weinke and Gino Torretta, Vinny Testaverde

FIFY

 

[Chris02M]

1-FSU


2- Miami,Clemson,Virginia Tech

3-North Carolina, Syracuse,Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh

4- Boston College, Wake Forest, NC State,Virginia,Duke

 

[dinosaurbbq]

1-FSU


2- Miami,Clemson,Virginia Tech

3-North Carolina, Syracuse,Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh

4- Boston College, Wake Forest, NC State,Virginia,Duke

I go with this one over the original, but I'd move Louisville down to 4 and Duke down to 5. Duke has had exactly one decent year of NCAA Football in the last 50 years and ended up ranked #22/23 in the final polls. They are worse than Rutgers at football.

 

[bevosu]

After having a healthy discussion about Virginia Tech I thought I would create this thread because I want to see how others would rank the teams alltime. I don't put that much weight to anything before 1964 and segregation ended, but people can rank the teams how they deem them to fall.


Tier 1: Florida State and Miami(national players)
These teams each have atleast 3 National Championships since 1983. Miami was the team of the 1980's, Florida State was arguably the team of the 1990's. Each has had 2 Heisman winners Jameis Winston, Charlie Ward and Gino Torretta, Vinny Testaverde






Tier 2: Virginia Tech, Clemson(top 25 programs)
Virginia Tech doesn't have much history prior to Beamer, but they have played in 7 Sugar/Orange Bowls since 1995, they have 9 conference title Big East/ACC during that time. Clemson has the 1981 NC, they have done well under Swinney, but only 2 major bowls since 1981. They are on an upswing, but don't have the body of work.



Tier 3: Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, Syracuse(all three have history, but not much recent success)
These schools have national titles in football and Pitt/Syracuse have Heisman winners and NCs. No major bowl wins for any since Syracuse in 1993 Fiesta Bowl.

Tier 4: Louisville, Boston College
Recent success from Louisville 2 BCS bowl wins since 2006, Boston College has a Heisman winner and been above average from a while

Tier 5: North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia
This is the foundation of the ACC, but none of these teams have major bowls in the last 20 years or Heisman trophy's in their school history.

Note: I say a huge gap between tier 1 and 2 a decent gap between 2 and 3 and very little gap between tiers 3 and 5.

Total agreement.

 

[HtownOrange]

The OP asked for All-Time.

Pitt has the most NC's, though there is the footnote that most were before the Coach's and Writer's polls.

Then Miami and FSU, (Championships and Heisman's speak volumes)

Then Syracuse, Clemson, GATech, (All have championships, all have played high caliber ball since desegregation, per OP. All have played top level teams and won, all have performed generally over time.) All have respectable numbers of wins as well as being able to win big games/bowls.

Then VPI, BC, NCState, Louisville, UNC, all have good points but all have serious flaws, none have championships. BC and to some extent Louisville play above their talent levels and have won big games, neither has a great history but both have some excellent highlights, VPI and UNC play below their talent levels and do not fare well in big games. NCState is, well NCState, they could come in second in a on horse race, but they have had some good years, too and they pull off the upset at some of the worst times.

Then Wake Forest, UVA, Duke, each has had some good periods and some good games but generally are pushovers on the gridiron.

 

[Alsacs]

The OP asked for All-Time.

Pitt has the most NC's, though there is the footnote that most were before the Coach's and Writer's polls.

Then Miami and FSU, (Championships and Heisman's speak volumes)

Then Syracuse, Clemson, GATech, (All have championships, all have played high caliber ball since desegregation, per OP. All have played top level teams and won, all have performed generally over time.) All have respectable numbers of wins as well as being able to win big games/bowls.

Then VPI, BC, NCState, Louisville, UNC, all have good points but all have serious flaws, none have championships. BC and to some extent Louisville play above their talent levels and have won big games, neither has a great history but both have some excellent highlights, VPI and UNC play below their talent levels and do not fare well in big games. NCState is, well NCState, they could come in second in a on horse race, but they have had some good years, too and they pull off the upset at some of the worst times.

Then Wake Forest, UVA, Duke, each has had some good periods and some good games but generally are pushovers on the gridiron.

I personally put a caveat before any title won before 1964 because of racism. Even Pitt fans would blush if they tried to claim they were in the same league as Florida State or Miami. Those "8" NCs aren't real in my opinion. Its like the Minnesota troll from last December trying to claim Minnesota is a better program for those NCs in 30's or 40's. You can put Pitt first, but I find that hard to take seriously.

The rest I can see the argument, but VPI is higher for me.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is just patently wrong. Miami has 5 NCs since 1983. They won it in 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001 and have played for the NC in 1986 and 2002(when the Luckeyes stole one from them).

If you think Clemson is above Miami that is crazy. Even most Clemson fans would acknowledge that. Miami has played for the NC 8 times since 1983, and have 2 Heisman winners to Clemson's 1 NC(1981) and 0 Heisman winners.

Miami was a good team in the 1960s, too. They have a great body of work. If we are talking about post-WWII history, then it is Miami and Florida State at the top, and then Va Tech, Syracuse, Pitt, Georgia Tech, then probably Clemson and Boston College, then the rest of the Carolina schools.

If we are talking "Modern Era" - 1960s to the present, it stays pretty much the same, although Boston College would probably be ahead of Clemson. It's only if you are talking the last 10 years that the ratings get shuffled around and Clemson is a "major power". They are a Johnny-Come-Lately, like Va Tech was back in the 90s.

 

[HtownOrange]

I personally put a caveat before any title won before 1964 because of racism. Even Pitt fans would blush if they tried to claim they were in the same league as Florida State or Miami. Those "8" NCs aren't real in my opinion. Its like the Minnesota troll from last December trying to claim Minnesota is a better program for those NCs in 30's or 40's. You can put Pitt first, but I find that hard to take seriously.

The rest I can see the argument, but VPI is higher for me.

I started with your thread title "All Time" and I recognized your modification.

Not sure I fully agree with your arbitrary date of desegregation. Syracuse won the title in 1959, Davis won the Heisman before 1964 and Jim Brown played in the 1950's. Bybthe All-Time criteria the data is in by the modified criteria the data is out. However, my opinion is still my opinion.

Re: Pitt: Pitt was a generally recognized powerhouse. You are free to ignore their accomplishments pre-AP/UPI but it does not change the facts.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Miami was a good team in the 1960s, too. They have a great body of work. If we are talking about post-WWII history, then it is Miami and Florida State at the top, and then Va Tech, Syracuse, Pitt, Georgia Tech, then probably Clemson and Boston College, then the rest of the Carolina schools.

If we are talking "Modern Era" - 1960s to the present, it stays pretty much the same, although Boston College would probably be ahead of Clemson. It's only if you are talking the last 10 years that the ratings get shuffled around and Clemson is a "major power". They are a Johnny-Come-Lately, like Va Tech was back in the 90s.

"Modern Era" begins in 1951. The year I was born.

FWIW, "all-time" means since Rutgers and Princeton laced 'em up. "Recent past" means anything after the Frank Maloney years.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I started with your thread title "All Time" and I recognized your modification.

Not sure I fully agree with your arbitrary date of desegregation. Syracuse won the title in 1959, Davis won the Heisman before 1964 and Jim Brown played in the 1950's. Bybthe All-Time criteria the data is in by the modified criteria the data is out. However, my opinion is still my opinion.

Re: Pitt: Pitt was a generally recognized powerhouse. You are free to ignore their accomplishments pre-AP/UPI but it does not change the facts.

They won a national championship in the 1970s with Tony Dorsett. That's not ancient history as far as this guy is concerned.

 

[Alsacs]

They won a national championship in the 1970s with Tony Dorsett. That's not ancient history as far as this guy is concerned.

I gave them credit for the Dorsett Heisman/NC in my rankings. They have played in 1 major bowl since Marino and it was because Diamond Ferri destroyed BC and Pitt was destroyed by Utah in that Fiesta Bowl. Pitt is not a top 25 program right now they are better than us, but only slightly. Instead of bottoming with G-Rob they bottomed out a decade earlier with Johnny Majors 2.0 from 93-97.

 

[SoBeCuse]

1-FSU


2- Miami,Clemson,Virginia Tech

3-North Carolina, Syracuse,Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh

4- Boston College, Wake Forest, NC State,Virginia,Duke

This. Original post is good, also.