howard needs more run

[Cusefan0307]

The box score absolutely missed an assist. Which is the weirdest thing, because he had the nicest pass of the day to Cooney in transition for a 3 and Bilas praised him for a solid 10 seconds and they showed a replay of it. I guess we know for sure the statistician doesn't watch the broadcast of the game. Either way he was asleep at the wheel. Makes you wonder what else they miss.

Who wants to keep score when it's 85 and sunny outside. They missed Cooneys block as well.

 

[orangefan13]

I don't think Gbinije or Cooney are going to sit much this year. There won't be many minutes to give a third guard. 10-15 at most. Howard was ok today. Joseph didn't do anything today. He was 0-6. I think tomcat alluded to this in his recap, but Joseph has to have the worst plus/minus on the team. He hit a couple of shots against, Lehigh, but other than that he's looked the same as he did last year.

I think the last line is premature.
He had to play point guard against elon and didn't get the run against st. Bonnies.
Today he tried to shoot alittle but his form digressed immensly. Faster release not enough lift not enough arc, not tight enough release, as the 3rd-4th shooting option on the floor he doesn't need to do that. He was even shooting really tight nice jumpers off a dribble or two a few games back, He doesn't make you pay in the paint teams know he is going to pass out of it. Hard to drive and dish out of the lane if you can't make them pay some in the lane first.
This guy lived off the pick and roll overseas this summer as the leading scorer and made them pay inside.

I just don't think he knows his role yet and hes one of those guys that needs to. He needs to be overcoached loosely some, hes just not doing it on his own, and having a tough time getting momentum right now.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I am truly hoping KJ emerges because having more options obviously bodes better for the team. At worst FH was even with KJ today. KJ did nothing except for a nice baseline pass. I didn't look at the stats yet but he was mostly hesitating out there ball stopping and shooting awkward jumpers. I think he turned it over a few times as well. I like FH's low to the ground dribble and that pass in transition for the 3 was awesome. At worst FH was even with KJ who is an older and more experienced player.

 

[RF2044]

I am truly hoping KJ emerges because having more options obviously bodes better for the team. At worst FH was even with KJ today. KJ did nothing except for a nice baseline pass. I didn't look at the stats yet but he was mostly hesitating out there ball stopping and shooting awkward jumpers. I think he turned it over a few times as well. I like FH's low to the ground dribble and that pass in transition for the 3 was awesome. At worst FH was even with KJ who is an older and more experienced player.

Not to be argumentative, but that is simply not true. KJ has a couple of assists in the first half, and was definitive with the ball in our half court offensive sets. He didn't do "nothing except for a nice baseline pass." He wracked up a couple of very nice assists compared to an easy one in transition for Howard, and had several dishes that his teammates couldn't convert. He also had a few passes that let to "hockey" assists.

Problem is, he missed a few open jumpers [which I can live with], and also didn't convert on a couple of drives. And then he fell down once leading to a run out. What?

Those dumb mistakes offset the good plays he made. I feel like we're watching young Scoop--one step forward, one step back.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Not to be argumentative, but that is simply not true. KJ has a couple of assists in the first half, and was definitive with the ball in our half court offensive sets. He didn't do "nothing except for a nice baseline pass." He wracked up a couple of very nice assists compared to an easy one in transition for Howard, and had several dishes that his teammates couldn't convert. He also had a few passes that let to "hockey" assists.

Problem is, he missed a few open jumpers [which I can live with], and also didn't convert on a couple of drives. And then he fell down once leading to a run out. What?

Those dumb mistakes offset the good plays he made. I feel like we're watching young Scoop--one step forward, one step back.

We're just going to continue to butt heads re: Joseph. We clearly aren't seeing the same player. It's fine and I DO hope you're right. I don't think anybody is right with their analysis on him currently and it seems like the coaches probably aren't sure what they will get night in and night out. He's an enigma.

 

[RF2044]

We're just going to continue to butt heads re: Joseph. We clearly aren't seeing the same player. It's fine and I DO hope you're right. I don't think anybody is right with their analysis on him currently and it seems like the coaches probably aren't sure what they will get night in and night out. He's an enigma.

I'm not disputing that he's struggled. But he also played 4X as much as Howard did today [a coaching decision], and made several positive plays that many aren't acknowledging.

As I've also mentioned numerous times in this thread, he also made some boneheaded plays, which are frustrating.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I'm not disputing that he's struggled. But he also played 4X as much as Howard did today [a coaching decision], and made several positive plays that many aren't acknowledging.

As I've also mentioned numerous times in this thread, he also made some boneheaded plays, which are frustrating.

I definitely noted earlier in a different thread that he played more minutes. My opinion is that the staff is REALLY trying to get him going since Howard is more calm out there, court saavy, and trustworthy? Meaning I think they can plug FH in and not really worry about him moving forward. We'll see.

 

[RF2044]

The team desperately needs one of these two to emerge to provide consistent backcourt contributions.

That's the bottom line. Both would be phenomenal.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The team desperately needs one of these two to emerge to provide consistent backcourt contributions.

That's the bottom line. Both would be phenomenal.

Absolutely!

 

[orangefan13]

I'm not disputing that he's struggled. But he also played 4X as much as Howard did today [a coaching decision], and made several positive plays that many aren't acknowledging.

As I've also mentioned numerous times in this thread, he also made some boneheaded plays, which are frustrating.

This team doesn't have a slow it down perimeter isolation and inside post up style of offense. It brings a different style of point guard play. Neither Howard or Kaleb are ready to make you pay in the lane and draw alittle help defense a few plays a game to speed up the offense.

At this point figuring out their roll is like disecting the grand canyon compared to Cooney and Gbinije being a small stream in your backyard.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

He got two rebounds--both on the same offensive tip, I believe. Zero assists. Zero across the rest of the box score.

I love the kid's potential, but when the OP says: "he really impressed me today..." I'm not sure what he was watching.

maybe you should not rely so hard on stats to determine if someone contributed positively or not.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I am truly hoping KJ emerges because having more options obviously bodes better for the team. At worst FH was even with KJ today. KJ did nothing except for a nice baseline pass. I didn't look at the stats yet but he was mostly hesitating out there ball stopping and shooting awkward jumpers. I think he turned it over a few times as well. I like FH's low to the ground dribble and that pass in transition for the 3 was awesome. At worst FH was even with KJ who is an older and more experienced player.

Even with KJ? I didnt even play and I was well ahead of KJ in terms of win shares contributed

 

[721Comstock]

The box score absolutely missed an assist. Which is the weirdest thing, because he had the nicest pass of the day to Cooney in transition for a 3 and Bilas praised him for a solid 10 seconds and they showed a replay of it. I guess we know for sure the statistician doesn't watch the broadcast of the game. Either way he was asleep at the wheel. Makes you wonder what else they miss.

Well, for starters... they missed the Cooney BLOCK.
He didn't get credit for that swat in the box score, either.
JB busted his chops about it in the presser, to which TC replied - "it was a block, everybody saw it."

Not unlike Howard's sweet pass to TC for the 3 at the end of the first half.
But since it wasn't in the box score - it never happened. According to some.

 

[CuseTG2003]

You can look at all the stats you want, but based on the eye test, Frankie's a much better player than KJ and most importantly, a much better fit w/ this team. It's not even close imo. We don't need another guard who's primarily a scorer (and not a good one at this level). We have enough firepower. We need a backup guard who can penetrate and dish, who's disruptive at the top of the zone, and active on the boards. Frankie's the guy.

 

[RF2044]

maybe you should not rely so hard on stats to determine if someone contributed positively or not.

Maybe people should rely on what happens in the game to determine if someone contributed positively or not instead of making mountains out of mole hills..

 

[CusefanATL]

I am really pissed off about this assist. What the HELL?

 

[CusefanATL]

You can look at all the stats you want, but based on the eye test, Frankie's a much better player than KJ and most importantly, a much better fit w/ this team. It's not even close imo. We don't need another guard who's primarily a scorer (and not a good one at this level). We have enough firepower. We need a backup guard who can penetrate and dish, who's disruptive at the top of the zone, and active on the boards. Frankie's the guy.

Frank probably isn't going to be a big contributor this year - but he is going to be very very good. He is passing the eye test the same way MCW was passing the eye test.

 

[jdubs30]

The most impressive thing Howard did was that offensive rebound where he got fouled, he looked like a 6'8 the way he skied up with the bigs to grab that

 

[RF2044]

I am really pissed off about this assist. What the HELL?

Don't be an ass. Year in year out, there is nobody more critical of our lead guard play than I am. Making a pass in the open floor is one of the easiest plays to make. It's being overblown.

I'm losing patience with Joseph. Time for him to straighten up and play mistake free ball. If he doesn't, then perhaps Howard will supplant him in the rotation. But there is a reason why Joseph played a lot more yesterday, because the coaching staff believes he is capable of providing more.

Agree with your post above, it is unlikely that Howard is a contributor this year [proverbial fourth guard in a three guard rotation]. But I could see him being a multi year starter--love his potential. Bottom line: we need either Joseph or Howard to show the same form they did in the preseason games, and not have that just be a tantalizing tease as it was with Ron Patterson last year.

 

[CusefanATL]

Don't be an ass. Year in year out, there is nobody more critical of our lead guard play than I am. Making a pass in the open floor is one of the easiest plays to make. It's being overblown.

I'm losing patience with Joseph. Time for him to straighten up and play mistake free ball. If he doesn't, then perhaps Howard will supplant him in the rotation. But there is a reason why Joseph played a lot more yesterday, because the coaching staff believes he is capable of providing more.

Agree with your post above, it is unlikely that Howard is a contributor this year [proverbial fourth guard in a three guard rotation]. But I could see him being a multi year starter--love his potential. Bottom line: we need either Joseph or Howard to show the same form they did in the preseason games, and not have that just be a tantalizing tease as it was with Ron Patterson last year.

I was not being an ass... I rewatched the highlight and from this post and sent it to a good friend of mine from College who is for all intensive purposes an assistant coach with Franks HS team. And I posted I was pissed off. I didn't read the thread at that point past the video.

 

[MonsterGame]

There is a bigger difference between KJ and Howard than just stats.

KJ often looks uncertain about what he's doing both defensively and offensively. It is visible in both his body language and actions.

Howard exudes that confidence that is a necessary ingredient for solid to great play. He looks like he belongs out on the floor.

This factor can come and go for players for a variety of reasons. (It might change in one direction or the other for either or both players given more PT for them) Right now, Howard makes me more comfortable when he's on the floor than KJ.

 

[CorduroyG]

There is a bigger difference between KJ and Howard than just stats.

KJ often looks uncertain about what he's doing both defensively and offensively. It is visible in both his body language and actions.

Howard exudes that confidence that is a necessary ingredient for solid to great play. He looks like he belongs out on the floor.

This factor can come and go for players for a variety of reasons. (It might change in one direction or the other for either or both players given more PT for them) Right now, Howard makes me more comfortable when he's on the floor than KJ.

Exactly. Howard impressing me yesterday had nothing to do with stats. Obviously since he didnt have any lol. He looks smooth, calm and confident out there. And with more pt hes only gonna get better.

 

[NateW]

Just want to jump in on this debate real quick. I'm as big of proponent of Frank as anyone (I've posted several times calling for more minutes for him) but some of the people putting down KJ need to back off a bit.

He had a great floor game yesterday. Not sure what the stats show but he had two excellent dimes I can recall right off of the top of my head where he used his dribble to set someone up for a wide open shot (the pass along the baseline, and a beautiful setup to Cooney for a 3.) You can tell the game is slowing down for him and he's actually playing with intent rather than just trying to survive out there. The 2 threes he missed were not in the flow of the offense and if I recall correctly were possessions where we just didn't get anything going and we needed to put a shot up. Also, I think he was tripped by the defender on the play where he fell down.

As far as Frank... His ceiling (especially in the Syracuse system) is miles higher than KJ's. He's a good rebounder for a guard already. He plays with purpose and like I've said before he has this ability to skate to the rim with his head up and he knows how to set teammates up. I have lots more to say about Frank but I gotta make my way to today's turkey.

Bottom line is that KJ is playing better and Frank has potential. I just don't want to have games this season where Frank doesn't play at all. He needs to be out there each and every game because we will need him come tournament time. I think JB likes Frank's game and will put him on the floor.

GO KJ, GO FRANK, GO ORANGE!!!

BEAT UCONN!!!!!

 

[orangefan13]

JB himself said "I thought Kaleb played well he just shot poorly" he had overall good things to say about kaleb despite the stats.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Unless KJ is dramatically outperforming FH in practice I see no reason why FH shouldn't get more run. KJ was horrendous yesterday. Too much dribble and not enough passing in the 2nd half. He did have that one nice pass to G in the corner on the break though.