I Am Alllll In On DINO but. ... | Syracusefan.com

I Am Alllll In On DINO but. ...

Ish88888

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I will be interested to see how ACC athletes trained for lean mass and flexibility hold up against stout defenses like FSU, CLEMSON, BC, ETC. I do realize Shafers staff encouraged faster, lean Offensive lineman. We will still need beef on the Dline and MLB. Yes, this offense is proven in P5 play, but only Oregon and the defenseless Big 12. I am sure Dino will figure it out. So impressed with this man! Spring game tailgate!
 
I will be interested to see how ACC athletes trained for lean mass and flexibility hold up against stout defenses like FSU, CLEMSON, BC, ETC. I do realize Shafers staff encouraged faster, lean Offensive lineman. We will still need beef on the Dline and MLB. Yes, this offense is proven in P5 play, but only Oregon and the defenseless Big 12. I am sure Dino will figure it out. So impressed with this man! Spring game tailgate!

I had similar doubts too, then I remembered that playoff game between Oregon and FSU last year..
 
I had similar doubts too, then I remembered that playoff game between Oregon and FSU last year..

Very good point, in the end speed kills, just score enough to not need short yardage!
 
What we had wasn't working let's try something different.
Babers' presser was flat-out exciting. He has a mesmerizing personality .. and his passion for the game is infectious. His offensive scheme has yielded obvious results (big jumps in year 2 at both his latest schools).

That said, the no-huddle alone is not going to be enough. In order to compete at the upper level of our division in the ACC, we have to be able to score on FSU and Clemson and hold their NFL-athletes in check. Recruits that good are not going to come from NY in large enough numbers to make a difference. He's going to need speed and size at the skill positions ... WR, TE and RB, or FSU and Clemson could look like Tennessee did against BG earlier this season.

I think Babers can recruit and win here, if:

1- He hires a staff that can compete for 3-5 star players in FLORIDA, as well as NY and the Mid-West (Ill., Mich)(I loved his comment that he'll have guys recruiting "by the end of the day");
2- His defensive staff and scheme are ingenious enough to hold the high powered offenses of upper level ACC teams in check;
3- SU goes "all-in" on the Dome renovation and FB wing re-do to match the exciting start we made with the IPF.
 
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I will be interested to see how ACC athletes trained for lean mass and flexibility hold up against stout defenses like FSU, CLEMSON, BC, ETC. I do realize Shafers staff encouraged faster, lean Offensive lineman. We will still need beef on the Dline and MLB. Yes, this offense is proven in P5 play, but only Oregon and the defenseless Big 12. I am sure Dino will figure it out. So impressed with this man! Spring game tailgate!

Those Stout defenses still have to run with our offenses, let's see how they do in the 3rd and 4th quarter chasing 600 yards of offense all over the field.
 
Those Stout defenses still have to run with our offenses, let's see how they do in the 3rd and 4th quarter chasing 600 yards of offense all over the field.
Good point. Unfortunately, at our current talent level, at least for the first 3 quarters I don't think we're going to scare the Seminoles or the Tigers by running a track-meet. In the fourth quarter, however, I think any defense is going to wear down chasing an offense constantly on the run.

Of course, that assumes that our offense is running around and actually sustaining drives -- catching passes and gaining yards on the ground. To do that, Babers is going to need some thunder in the backfield at RB, a TE who can get open and catch and some receivers who can compliment Ish and finally give us a vertical threat.
 
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We have a better chance of accumulating a roster of quick guys with lean mass, then we do stout guys with a lot of beef. It plays into the guys we can recruit and helps equal the playing field if down correctly imo (see Baylor, Oregon). They get their fair share of recruits, NOW. But it wasn't always that way. There was a time when Baylor wasn't pulling anything more then what we are now. Sure they are in Texas so that makes it easier now, but there was a time when they were just you're regular ho-hum P5 program.
 
I will be interested to see how ACC athletes trained for lean mass and flexibility hold up against stout defenses like FSU, CLEMSON, BC, ETC. I do realize Shafers staff encouraged faster, lean Offensive lineman. We will still need beef on the Dline and MLB. Yes, this offense is proven in P5 play, but only Oregon and the defenseless Big 12. I am sure Dino will figure it out. So impressed with this man! Spring game tailgate!

Big 12 hasn't always been defenseless (Oklahoma). Texas Tech was able to compete against the factories like UT and A&M without having the stud recruits by offering a different style of play. They basically made A&M obsolete until the Aggies got Sumlin and moved to the SEC.
 
I have serious concerns at tackle this year. Offensive line play is the key to all of this. Would love to see if Dino goes after some juco oline recruits.
 
We competed with Clemson surprisingly well the past couple years. How "stout" were we?
We did, but it wasn't because we were stout (if you mean that in the positive sense as big or strong). Our defense played their butts off in that game. Holding the nation's #1 team without a TD in the second half was probably the high point of the season. Unfortunately, not only did we lose, I think that defensive performance turned out to be an outlier. We got embarrassed against LV, USF, FSU and NCSt. In 7 out of 8 losses, our defensive line got pushed around and opposing O linemen were often able to block our LB's off the ball. In the secondary, we were outmatched in size, speed and experience. We couldn't defend bubble screens because our CB's and safeties got manhandled by bigger stronger receivers on the other teams. We also had trouble all year tackling bigger, faster RB's and TE's (I remember us trying to tackle USF's tight end .. it took half the defense to bring him down). So I'd say size and speed were the two biggest concerns with our defense this year.

Pretty much the same story on offense. Our OL was overmatched in most games and had trouble opening holes against bigger, stronger D linemen. In our backfield, Fredricks provided occasional lightening. But he's certainly not a short yardage back and we had no thunder to compliment him in the running game. Again our receivers, with one exception, had trouble separating and weren't big enough to out-muscle or out-jump opposing defenders.

I don't know how people can watch RB's like Furnette, Gallman, Ollison, Patrick, etc. run over our defense and conclude that size isn't an issue. Have you seen Alabama's RB? Monster. I'll take THAT guy.
 
I will be interested to see how ACC athletes trained for lean mass and flexibility hold up against stout defenses like FSU, CLEMSON, BC, ETC. I do realize Shafers staff encouraged faster, lean Offensive lineman. We will still need beef on the Dline and MLB. Yes, this offense is proven in P5 play, but only Oregon and the defenseless Big 12. I am sure Dino will figure it out. So impressed with this man! Spring game tailgate!
i don't think training techniques rules out that they can find big kids. it actually gives me hope, one of marrones accomplishments i thought was plucking jay bromley. there are plenty of huge kids in the tri-state area that haven't played enough football and are not on national recruiting radars that if coached properly can be good players. i think yukon is beating us to the punch in this area a bit, by recruiting the biggest kids they can find and seeing if they can turn them into football players. i think it is a good way to find lineman.
 
I will be interested to see how ACC athletes trained for lean mass and flexibility hold up against stout defenses like FSU, CLEMSON, BC, ETC. I do realize Shafers staff encouraged faster, lean Offensive lineman. We will still need beef on the Dline and MLB. Yes, this offense is proven in P5 play, but only Oregon and the defenseless Big 12. I am sure Dino will figure it out. So impressed with this man! Spring game tailgate!

Over the long haul, they won't compete that well with FSU, Clemson, ND, LSU etc. Bigger, better athletes will win out more often. Oregon and Baylor still haven't hung national title banners. Texas A&M hasn't taken care of much business in the SEC West.

But in any single game or single season basis, this gives you the best chance to compete with those schools from time to time. Does anyone really think that ANY coach can recruit to Syracuse (or about 85+ other schools) the kind of freak giant athletes that the top recruiting schools get? Banging your head and trying to "out-tough" defensive ends that are 6-4, 270 and run a 4.6 with 2-star O Linemen is just not a winning proposition.

College football is not level playing field. You're still going to get stomped by better stronger guys at the line of scrimmage more than a little bit against the very best teams on your schedule. But you're also going to sometimes get guys in space, confuse the defense, get the defense gassed, make plays with speed, and catch a couple breaks if you've got an offense and a game plan designed to take advantage.

Now, of course, when you start putting together some 6, 7, 8 win seasons every year, the caliber of athlete you can get in the door goes up, and that allows you to do more things helmet on helmet eventually.
 
Over the long haul, they won't compete that well with FSU, Clemson, ND, LSU etc. Bigger, better athletes will win out more often. Oregon and Baylor still haven't hung national title banners. Texas A&M hasn't taken care of much business in the SEC West.

But in any single game or single season basis, this gives you the best chance to compete with those schools from time to time. Does anyone really think that ANY coach can recruit to Syracuse (or about 85+ other schools) the kind of freak giant athletes that the top recruiting schools get? Banging your head and trying to "out-tough" defensive ends that are 6-4, 270 and run a 4.6 with 2-star O Linemen is just not a winning proposition.

College football is not level playing field. You're still going to get stomped by better stronger guys at the line of scrimmage more than a little bit against the very best teams on your schedule. But you're also going to sometimes get guys in space, confuse the defense, get the defense gassed, make plays with speed, and catch a couple breaks if you've got an offense and a game plan designed to take advantage.

Now, of course, when you start putting together some 6, 7, 8 win seasons every year, the caliber of athlete you can get in the door goes up, and that allows you to do more things helmet on helmet eventually.
modern offenses are held to a higher standard. if you run some boring old offense against FSU and get killed, people shrug and say "well what can you do, it's FSU"

but when something different fails against FSU all of a sudden it's because you did something different

(not directed at you ish)
 
We did, but it wasn't because we were stout (if you mean that in the positive sense as big or strong). Our defense played their butts off in that game. Holding the nation's #1 team without a TD in the second half was probably the high point of the season. Unfortunately, not only did we lose, I think that defensive performance turned out to be an outlier. We got embarrassed against LV, USF, FSU and NCSt. In 7 out of 8 losses, our defensive line got pushed around and opposing O linemen were often able to block our LB's off the ball. In the secondary, we were outmatched in size, speed and experience. We couldn't defend bubble screens because our CB's and safeties got manhandled by bigger stronger receivers on the other teams. We also had trouble all year tackling bigger, faster RB's and TE's (I remember us trying to tackle USF's tight end .. it took half the defense to bring him down). So I'd say size and speed were the two biggest concerns with our defense this year.

Pretty much the same story on offense. Our OL was overmatched in most games and had trouble opening holes against bigger, stronger D linemen. In our backfield, Fredricks provided occasional lightening. But he's certainly not a short yardage back and we had no thunder to compliment him in the running game. Again our receivers, with one exception, had trouble separating and weren't big enough to out-muscle or out-jump opposing defenders.

I don't know how people can watch RB's like Furnette, Gallman, Ollison, Patrick, etc. run over our defense and conclude that size isn't an issue. Have you seen Alabama's RB? Monster. I'll take THAT guy.
Not sure I get your point here. Are you saying that instead of bringing in a proven system like what Babers runs that could differentiate SU from the majority of peer schools, you'd rather just recruit guys like Fournette and Henry to run the ball at Syracuse? I'm pretty sure that's not currently a viable option.
 
Not sure I get your point here. Are you saying that instead of bringing in a proven system like what Babers runs that could differentiate SU from the majority of peer schools, you'd rather just recruit guys like Fournette and Henry to run the ball at Syracuse? I'm pretty sure that's not currently a viable option.
No, I like Babers system. My point was, at the end of the day, no matter what system he runs, he's still going to need players with strength, speed and size. I'm not saying we need everyone of our players to meet certain criteria .. it'd be too hard to recruit that way. And to be sure, we have a few players on the roster that make you forget their size -- Cordy, Estime, Phillips come to mind. But in the long run in our conference, with the teams we need to play every year, there's no substitute for big, fast guys. I'm tired of seeing them on the other team -- that's what I'm saying.
 
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modern offenses are held to a higher standard. if you run some boring old offense against FSU and get killed, people shrug and say "well what can you do, it's FSU"

but when something different fails against FSU all of a sudden it's because you did something different

(not directed at you ish)

There is a lot of truth in that, that's a very good observation. I agree with that.
 
I just think of it like going into a gladiator fight against a guy with a 36" sword, and you have a choice of a 16" sword or a wooden spear. If all things were equal a sword is a better weapon than a wooden spear, all things AREN'T equal. You're probably going to die anyway, but a wooden spear at least gives you a shot to stay out of range, and get a couple good/lucky shots in, and wear him down. And considering the guy has probably been training in swordsmanship his entire life, you might just be able to outwit him a bit using a weapon he hasn't faced that much. It seems better than just grabbing a much smaller sword and charging in to take on a trained swordsman, even if you still end up dead more often than not.

Now later, if you can get your hands on a 30" or 32" inch sword, then you might start reconsidering your plan, but you're not there yet.
 
I don't expect Syracuse to go 10-2 in a down year like FSU did this year.
The talent is never going to be there for FB to be top 25 every year.
We just need our program to be a consistent 7-5 or 8-4 program.
ACC Coastal could become the SEC West of the conference
Florida State = Alabama
Clemson = LSU
Louisville = Texas A&M
NC State = Mississippi State
Now Syracuse, Boston College, Wake need to evaluate up now. As the SEC west has Auburn, Ole Miss, Arkansas as well.
 
I'll also mention, Syracuse bringing in a system like this is a good thing for FSU and Clemson (and everyone else in the Atlantic). Most of the time (not every time) those schools are still going to come out on top based on sheer talent, but seeing that offense once a year every year will make them stronger in the event they run into a similar system in a bowl game or the playoffs which isn't that unlikely.

It's like the schools that play GT have an advantage taking on that kind of offense, but who else runs that kind of offense that you're ever going to run into in a playoff or major bowl game? I mean, it might help when you play your FCS opponent, but otherwise there's not much benefit. Having this offense in the league will be good for the conference overall I believe.
 
It's a lot easier to beat a good, stout defense by spreading them out. Spread out the splits between linemen, move the receivers around, get quick kids. This can work.

We've been running offenses with smaller, slower, less talented kids as it is. I'm more than happy to see something more high flying and trying to improve the recruits as the offense gets going. Success breeds success.
 
I don't expect Syracuse to go 10-2 in a down year like FSU did this year.
The talent is never going to be there for FB to be top 25 every year.
We just need our program to be a consistent 7-5 or 8-4 program.
ACC Coastal could become the SEC West of the conference
Florida State = Alabama
Clemson = LSU
Louisville = Texas A&M
NC State = Mississippi State
Now Syracuse, Boston College, Wake need to evaluate up now. As the SEC west has Auburn, Ole Miss, Arkansas as well.
I agree with you .. a division championship is a long way off. Unfortunately, so is 7-5 or 8-4 given our current schedule. I know we were there 3 seasons ago, but that's history. Next year, we're going to start off with Colgate, USF, UConn and ND. I'd be happy with 2 wins there. Then, we play Clemson, FSU, LV, V-T and Pitt. Realistically, can we beat any of those teams? Who knows. But if not, we're 2-7. That's it right there ... a losing season if we're lucky (i.e, we don't have trouble with BC, WF, or the other 3 games we schedule).

This program need a colossal talent upgrade. While we're working on that, Babers' new scheme will help us score points against bigger, faster teams -- that's who we play in the ACC. I love Babers attitude, his ideas, his excitement for the game. He comes from a military family .. all the values are there. He obviously wants a "relentless" "Physical" defense. So I love what I'm hearing. I just hope they step out of their bodies on the recruiting circuit .. because that's where the ACC games are won and lost every year.
 
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