I am truly embarrassed for some of you.

[SaintTristan]

Bernie Fine is family. And when someone in your family is under fire you protect them. You fight for them unconditionally. You dont sit there and whine about victims rights or spewing BS about attacking the victim. Honestly, some of you should be ashamed. naming names will only get this post deleted so I wont bother. But wont forget either.

The only victim I see is Bernie Fine. The guy is screwed. A blind person can see these guys are full of (I am still trying to understand why ESPN reopened an investigation based on the word of a guy who was visibly drunk). But it doesnt matter. Bernie's legacy is now going to be tainted by this. He is now part of the "story" and his obituary is going to address this scandal. I am sure his family is going to love that.

And others questioning whether JB helped cover something up!?!? Seriously?

Bernie and JB are the victims here. Not that freak and his drunk brother. They are opportunists. They are trial lawyers' spawn.

 

[dash-30-dash]

I know, I know. look a broken clock is right twice a day. If no one else comes forward, the story is over. There is no way to prove what happened between fine and these guys. Plus, the SLO has expired. The story needs another accuser. Short of that, it blows over. not for Bernie of course.

 

[AZOrange]

Bernie Fine is family. And when someone in your family is under fire you protect them. You fight for them unconditionally. You dont sit there and whine about victims rights or spewing BS about attacking the victim. Honestly, some of you should be ashamed. naming names will only get this post deleted so I wont bother. But wont forget either.

The only victim I see is Bernie Fine. The guy is screwed. A blind person can see these guys are full of (I am still trying to understand why ESPN reopened an investigation based on the word of a guy who was visibly drunk). But it doesnt matter. Bernie's legacy is now going to be tainted by this. He is now part of the "story" and his obituary is going to address this scandal. I am sure his family is going to love that.

And others questioning whether JB helped cover something up!?!? Seriously?

Bernie and JB are the victims here. Not that freak and his drunk brother. They are opportunists. They are trial lawyers' spawn.

Unless there is a tape of Bernie confessing to these crimes, I cannot even fathom why we are discussing them.

 

[liljoe]

Well said. I find the chicken little mentality troublesome.

Regardless of whether this is true or false, this is a case study of how easy it is to make false allegations for financial/personal gain. It's exactly why an individual faced with a false allegation will make some sort of monetary settlement with and the individual to not go public. If they go public, no matter the truth, you will be damaged.

Look what happened to the IMF boss in NYC. Guy was disgraced, lost his job, and all because some tried to pull a scam?

It's the one crime category where one is not innocent until proven so... Even then, you pay dearly.

 

[kirbivore]

One question about the "family" comment. Since you are not a CNY native or SU alum, how did you become an SU fan? Answering the question would give you more credibility with your rally the troops posts, which I totally agree with BTW.

 

[EastCoast2]

preach it brother

 

[omniorange]

Bernie Fine is family. And when someone in your family is under fire you protect them. You fight for them unconditionally. You dont sit there and whine about victims rights or spewing BS about attacking the victim. Honestly, some of you should be ashamed. naming names will only get this post deleted so I wont bother. But wont forget either.

The only victim I see is Bernie Fine. The guy is screwed. A blind person can see these guys are full of (I am still trying to understand why ESPN reopened an investigation based on the word of a guy who was visibly drunk). But it doesnt matter. Bernie's legacy is now going to be tainted by this. He is now part of the "story" and his obituary is going to address this scandal. I am sure his family is going to love that.

And others questioning whether JB helped cover something up!?!? Seriously?

Bernie and JB are the victims here. Not that freak and his drunk brother. They are opportunists. They are trial lawyers' spawn.

You've had some stupid posts in the past, but this may well take the cake.

If someone comes to me and tells me a family member who I don't have daily contact with is an alcoholic and they know because they have been drinking with them for quite a while, I will cautiously defend that family member while at the same time afterward watch with due diligence to see for myself if there is evidence that this might be true.

We are at the point now where we simply do not know, so we are mostly defending BF's reputation while at the same time looking for signs/evidence of whether or not it may be true.

We hope for the best, but blindly believing that it cannot possibly be true helps neither the family member nor any potential victims.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[DoctorBombay]

You don't "protect them", you give them support for whatever they're going through ie; you don't abandon them.
If a family memeber was being investigated for a crime, I wouldn't pronounce them guilty until all the facts are known.
They'd have my support until proven otherwise. Blind loyalty is not admirable.

 

[liljoe]

We hope for the best, but blindly believing that it cannot possibly be true helps neither the family member nor any potential victims.

Cheers,
Neil

Blindly supporting? Those who are "blindly" supporting Fine are do so with far more rational thought than the chicken littles. As I see it, those that are "blindly" supporting Fine are basing it on several indisputable facts.

A) The police declined to investigate in 2003 (coincidentally, same year as championship)
B) the Post Standard and ESPN both investigated back then and found nothing to report.
C) Syracuse University investigated the allegations in 2005 and found nothing.
D) In 2011 PSU scandal gives the public/press a thirst for blood regarding child sexual abuse
E) Accuser surfaces again, this time with a new victim... Who just happens to be a yep-brother.

Sorry, but being "blind" would be not seeing that there are a lot of sucpicious coincidences to cause skepticism.

 

[007]

...Bernie and JB are the victims here. Not that freak and his drunk brother. They are opportunists. They are trial lawyers' spawn.

Being 100% certain with less than 10% of the facts is rarely an intelligent position. Are you going to "remember" and be embarrassed by those of us who will reserve judgment until this plays out?

It's one thing to hope that Bernie is innocent and quite another to assert it as absolute fact.

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
Mark Twain

​

 

[DoctorBombay]

Blindly supporting? Those who are "blindly" supporting Fine are do so with far more rational thought than the chicken littles. As I see it, those that are "blindly" supporting Fine are basing it on several indisputable facts.

A) The police declined to investigate in 2003 (coincidentally, same year as championship)
B) the Post Standard and ESPN both investigated back then and found nothing to report.
C) Syracuse University investigated the allegations in 2005 and found nothing.
D) In 2011 PSU scandal gives the public/press a thirst for blood regarding child sexual abuse
E) Accuser surfaces again, this time with a new victim... Who just happens to be a yep-brother.

Sorry, but being "blind" would be not seeing that there are a lot of sucpicious coincidences to cause skepticism.

I was speaking in general, that to "protect" someone doesn't mean you should blindly support them, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[PhatOrange]

Bernie Fine is family. And when someone in your family is under fire you protect them. You fight for them unconditionally. You dont sit there and whine about victims rights or spewing BS about attacking the victim. Honestly, some of you should be ashamed. naming names will only get this post deleted so I wont bother. But wont forget either.

The only victim I see is Bernie Fine. The guy is screwed. A blind person can see these guys are full of (I am still trying to understand why ESPN reopened an investigation based on the word of a guy who was visibly drunk). But it doesnt matter. Bernie's legacy is now going to be tainted by this. He is now part of the "story" and his obituary is going to address this scandal. I am sure his family is going to love that.

And others questioning whether JB helped cover something up!?!? Seriously?

Bernie and JB are the victims here. Not that freak and his drunk brother. They are opportunists. They are trial lawyers' spawn.

Amen.

And I might add I applaud JB and have the utmost respect for the guy for standing up and defending Bernie and making pointed comments the way he did. Fluk this PC crap.

Someone in you're family is accused of something like this (and if you believe it to be bullsh!t) you stand up for them and defend them unequivocally. 'coming back to haunt him' whatever, he's not complicit, is at the end of his career and frankly has gobs of money, so he's not worried about having to step down. He wouldn't care anyways, he's doing what he's doing as a matter of prinicple and what he believes in.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

You've had some stupid posts in the past, but this may well take the cake.

If someone comes to me and tells me a family member who I don't have daily contact with is an alcoholic and they know because they have been drinking with them for quite a while, I will cautiously defend that family member while at the same time afterward watch with due diligence to see for myself if there is evidence that this might be true.

We are at the point now where we simply do not know, so we are mostly defending BF's reputation while at the same time looking for signs/evidence of whether or not it may be true.

We hope for the best, but blindly believing that it cannot possibly be true helps neither the family member nor any potential victims.

Cheers,
Neil

Seriously. This is the most ridiculous thing i've seen in a long time. He's NOT my family. He's a guy who works for the team that represents the school i attended. Period. I've never met the man.

Even if i were his wife, best friend, minister, shrink, or attorney, i wouldn't profess to know what he thinks about or what he does outside of my presence. And as far as 'sexual activity' goes, we are ALL on the DL.

Doesn't mean i don't presume his innocence, but Victims' Rights are real and need to be protected. If you can devise a way that they're protected as well as the accused, i suggest you write up the legislation and spend the rest of your days getting it instituted.

 

[Banned]

There really should be a BAC limit for accusing someone of molestation on National TV.

I have a very hard time believing anything these sketchballs say. I keep reviewing, in my head, some of the lines lang says and it gets me laughing cuz he sounds like such a phony.

 

[qdawgg]

I don't fit your category of who to be "embarrassed" for but if I did I wouldn't take it too personally. Since your the biggest douchebag on this board nobody should give 2 sh!ts what you think.

 

[moqui]

You've had some stupid posts in the past, but this may well take the cake.

If someone comes to me and tells me a family member who I don't have daily contact with is an alcoholic and they know because they have been drinking with them for quite a while, I will cautiously defend that family member while at the same time afterward watch with due diligence to see for myself if there is evidence that this might be true.

We are at the point now where we simply do not know, so we are mostly defending BF's reputation while at the same time looking for signs/evidence of whether or not it may be true.

We hope for the best, but blindly believing that it cannot possibly be true helps neither the family member nor any potential victims.

Cheers,
Neil

pretty dumb post on your own account, Omni.

This is now the fifth time that Bernie's good name has been dragged through the mud by this scoundrel:

• original ESPN investigation a decade ago came up empty
• ditto Post Standard investigation a few years later
• same for internal University investigation
• new ESPN dirt trolling added only a family member whose story not only contradicts the account he gave to Mike Waters 6 years ago, but also contradicts specific details in Davis' own story (and who publicly announced a financial motive for a scam just weeks before he urged his brother to dredge things up again), and an ex GF of one of the grifters who . . . saw VENETIAN BLINDS!!!
• now, the SPD/DA investigation of a non-crime whose statute of limitations is long since passed

If you are not satisfied by now that there is no there there, then you will never be.

Bernie is innocent, and God Bless JB for having the balls that so many of the team's alleged fans lack, and saying so.

 

[omniorange]

pretty dumb post on your own account, Omni.

This is now the fifth time that Bernie's good name has been dragged through the mud by this scoundrel:

• original ESPN investigation a decade ago came up empty
• ditto Post Standard investigation a few years later
• same for internal University investigation
• new ESPN dirt trolling added only an ex GF of one of the grifters who . . . saw VENETIAN BLINDS!!!
• now, the SPD/DA investigation of a non-crime whose statute of limitations is long since passed

If you are not satisfied by now that there is no there there, then you will never be.

Bernie is innocent, and God Bless JB for having the balls that so many of the team's alleged fans lack, and saying so.

And for the fifth and final time, no corroboration does not equal innocence.

Let's hope this time a thorough investigation will lead to Bernie being proven innocent.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[moqui]

And for the fifth and final time, no corroboration does not equal innocence.

Cheers,
Neil

in other words, then, nothing will ever suffice to prove Bernie's innocence to the likes of you.

After all the investigations, Bernie is owed a presumption of innocence not only by the law, but by those of us in his wider community as well.

 

[pearl31]

Blindly supporting? Those who are "blindly" supporting Fine are do so with far more rational thought than the chicken littles. As I see it, those that are "blindly" supporting Fine are basing it on several indisputable facts.

A) The police declined to investigate in 2003 (coincidentally, same year as championship)
B) the Post Standard and ESPN both investigated back then and found nothing to report.
C) Syracuse University investigated the allegations in 2005 and found nothing.
D) In 2011 PSU scandal gives the public/press a thirst for blood regarding child sexual abuse
E) Accuser surfaces again, this time with a new victim... Who just happens to be a yep-brother.

Sorry, but being "blind" would be not seeing that there are a lot of sucpicious coincidences to cause skepticism.

A) We don't know why they declined to investigate, and that is an important aspect right now (a big reason, it seems, why the DA's office has now jumped in). We don't know the extent to which police and Davis talked. If they simply told him "sorry, the SOL has passed" without consulting with the DA, that is troublesome and is worthy of looking into.
B) Both ESPN and the PS have indicated that it wasn't because there wasn't anything to report, but that there was no corroboration at the time. Listen to the Waters podcast from the other day—there was something there, but not the necessary corroboration to go forward with a story at that time.
C) Again (according to what SU has publicly stated so far), it wasn't that they "found nothing." They had no corroboration from 4 sources. That's all we know. There are now questions, such as: Who were the sources and who "produced" them? Should the university have involved the DA's office in the investigation? Who within the university was involved in the investigation? What did people within the university already know prior to the investigation?
D) Several experts on abuse have publicly noted—before the Fine/SU allegations broke—that, in their experience, something like Penn St. can be a trigger for previous-silent victims to come forward. Could Davis/Lang be using that as an opportunity for a cash/fame grab? Yes, they could. But they could also have legitimately been motivated by the PSU story to go public with their real experiences.
E) According to the ESPN story, it was Lang that contacted Davis. It was not, apparently, the original accuser's idea to come forward this time.

Certainly there are questions with their allegations and their credibility. But that doesn't mean the allegations shouldn't be taken seriously, or that they couldn't be true. Not to mention that we are basically 48 hours into this thing, with police and DA investigations having just begun.

I can't understand how it is wrong for some of us to hope for the best (for the sake of BF, JB and the team) while considering all aspects of the situation objectively—and pointing out those aspects to others. To me, that's not "chicken little" or being a bad fan, it's just being realistic.