I asked before the season if people would be patient with JB this year...

[bevosu]

Can you imagine if we had Duke's team, their expectations instead of SU's and what this board would look like? We had fairly low expectations preseason and the team raised them by gutting it out, winning 6 OOC games each by less than 10 points while losing 3 of our 4 games by a total of only 11 points. I said preseason, this team should be enjoyed just watching the ups and downs of each player's development and molding of the team throughout the year. Frustration is taking over because they have exceeded expectations by winning close ones and losing some even closer ones. I hate it when we lose just like everyone else but I have to remind myself that if there's ever a team that I knew needed a patient outlook it's this one.

I know both of us have been around for a few decades. I went to SU in the mid 70's.

JB has always had a reputation as a roll the ball out and let them play on offense guy. When you have ultra talent like The Pearl, DC. Owens, Sherm, Stevie, Wallace, Seikaly..throw in Bouie and Orr, it works. When he doesn't have that kind of talent it can get pretty mundane.

He has developed into a good defensive coach when he has the pieces.

My expectations for this season were pretty low. I find over the past 3 years, when we obviously don't have exceptional talent, the losses don't bother me as much as the losses we used to suffer when we had really good and highly rated teams. Maybe it's age?

If anyone had asked me in 1975 if we would perpetuate the level of success we've managed over the past 40+ years I would have said...very doubtful.

 

[pearl31]

So your cool with the way everything went down

so very transparent

 

[Cusefan0307]

So your cool with the way everything went down

I wanted Hop as the coach, but most fans were terrible to him after he went 4-5 when JB was suspended.

 

[br801]

Nobody on the board wanted Hop until he beat Kansas this year in Washington. Revisionist history.

There must be a page of threads with people hyperventilating about why Hop should not be given the keys and how he was exposed as a bumbling idiot while JB was serving his suspension.

 

[OrangeDW]

This what we used to be

Our forwards could handle and pass like guards and went #1 and #3 in the draft(4 and 3 year players), and our PG was one of the best in college basketball(and a 4 year player). We don’t have anywhere close to that level of talent or experience on the court anymore.

The other top b-ball schools back then: UNLV, UNC, Duke, Michigan, Georgetown, St. John’s, Indiana, etc. generally played better basketball than the top teams do now for the same reasons.

 

[OrangeDW]

There must be a page of threads with people hyperventilating about why Hop should not be given the keys and how he was exposed as a bumbling idiot while JB was serving his suspension.

So moronic too. He was a long term substitute teacher who would be giving the job back in a few weeks no matter what.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Our forwards could handle and pass like guards and went #1 and #3 in the draft(4 and 3 year players), and our PG was one of the best in college basketball(and a 4 year player). We don’t have anywhere close to that level of talent or experience on the court anymore.

The other top b-ball schools back then: UNLV, UNC, Duke, Michigan, Georgetown, St. John’s, Indiana, etc. generally played better basketball than the top teams do now for the same reasons.

Yup. Good stuff.

 

[Briancuse]

I think we all expected a down year, we all knew it was going to be a struggle, with that said yesterdays loss was completely unacceptable.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Usually I'm too frustrated to watch any more basketball for the day after we lose, particularly the way we lost. But I did watch the Wyoming - Boise State game last night to support my mom's team. Not saying Wyoming is nearly the program we are. But the difference with their movement on offense was drastic, particularly since I still had our game fresh in my mind.

I went to the UVM vs umbc game last night. Both offenses were far superior to ours.

UVM would beat us on a neutral court.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Nobody on the board wanted Hop until he beat Kansas this year in Washington. Revisionist history.

I absolutely did. My only concern was JB not letting go after he retired. I wanted hop to run the program his way.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I went to the UVM vs umbc game last night. Both offenses were far superior to ours.

UVM would beat us on a neutral court.

UVM has one of their better teams this year, but Syracuse would be a 4-5 point favorite Neutral and would probably win 7 or 8 out of ten times. We’ve lost to nowhere near as bad of teams as UVM hasn’t in bucknell and northeastern.

 

[pearl31]

UVM has one of their better teams this year, but Syracuse would be a 4-5 point favorite Neutral and would probably win 7 or 8 out of ten times. We’ve lost to nowhere near as bad of teams as UVM hasn’t in bucknell and northeastern.

But we lost to Notre Dame yesterday and played bad.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

But we lost to Notre Dame yesterday and played bad.

And UVM almost beat Bonaventure in Rochester and we lost to them at home. When UVM gets their best player back, they'll be fine.

 

[kidorange]

I absolutely did. My only concern was JB not letting go after he retired. I wanted hop to run the program his way.

I did as well and was excited for Hop. I've been ready to turn the page for a few years but I've accepted that it's not going to happen any time soon.

I've seen many come to JB's defense, saying we should be patient. I haven't seen anyone saying he's doing a good job offensively, only that he needs elite offensive talent to succeed.

We don't have an elite roster but it has more talent, size and athleticism than the squad Mike Brey ran yesterday. There are several (most P5) coaches doing far more with far less.

Last I checked, coaching is getting the most out of players and putting them the best position to succeed. This includes adjusting to your roster and adapting to changes in the game and during individual games. Do JB advocates think this is happening? All I'm hearing and seeing is "get the ball in the basket" without any plan on how to get there.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

UVM has one of their better teams this year, but Syracuse would be a 4-5 point favorite Neutral and would probably win 7 or 8 out of ten times. We’ve lost to nowhere near as bad of teams as UVM hasn’t in bucknell and northeastern.

You realize what you just said right? 70% of the time we'd beat a low mid major. How is that an acceptable number?

 

[tipphill]

It's funny because Dino Babers' critics would argue he's running out of rope due to a lack of success. previous success should buy you plenty of rope, not eliminate it.

Each team is different, at least in basketball where we can lose people to the pros or to transfers in addition to graduation. This year's team had three guys who had played for us before and only one of those had been a major contributor. What happened in 2015, 2016 or 2017 has nothing to do with this year and next year will have nothing to do with this season.

The arc of the basketball season has been similar to the football season: low expectations but a stretch of quality play that encouraged higher goals, followed by a slump that returned us to the prior analysis, which was now a disappointment.

Jim Boeheim is not above criticism. His increasing conservatism in who he plays and how he has them play late in his career has hurt these teams and his grumpy sarcasm in news conferences hasn't helped. But he's earned plenty of 'rope'. The next coach will have his own set of strengths and weaknesses and this season hasn't played itself out yet. There may be more reassessments to come.

great post. however, there is no room(unfortunately)for rope!
jb digs most of the holes by his disposition--that adds to the dysfunction of hoops,and loss of fan support.
he has worn out his presence in syracuse as a coach. however he could be MAYOR.

 

[OrangeDW]

I did as well and was excited for Hop. I've been ready to turn the page for a few years but I've accepted that it's not going to happen any time soon.

I've seen many come to JB's defense, saying we should be patient. I haven't seen anyone saying he's doing a good job offensively, only that he needs elite offensive talent to succeed.

We don't have an elite roster but it has more talent, size and athleticism than the squad Mike Brey ran yesterday. There are several (most P5) coaches doing far more with far less.

Last I checked, coaching is getting the most out of players and putting them the best position to succeed. This includes adjusting to your roster and adapting to changes in the game and during individual games. Do JB advocates think this is happening? All I'm hearing and seeing is "get the ball in the basket" without any plan on how to get there.

More size than ND? Not width- wise.

Obviously we struggle offensively. What exactly should we be running on offense? Who are these teams that are good offensively without good offensive players? What should we be trying to do, specifically?

The Lakers try to run the Warriors offense with different players. How is that working?

 

[pfister1]

I went to the UVM vs umbc game last night. Both offenses were far superior to ours.

UVM would beat us on a neutral court.

To me this is like the zone v man argument that we hear most years after a loss. "We should play more man because the zone isn't effective."

Were their offenses far superior to ours because of who they were running the offenses against or the personnel they have running them. Or would they truly be better offensive schemes for the skill sets of the players we put on the court?

 

[br801]

I absolutely did. My only concern was JB not letting go after he retired. I wanted hop to run the program his way.

I think he meant Hop had fewer supporters on this board before his strong start at UW. There were plenty of us who hoped to see him take over the program, and some who even knew there was a succession plan in place.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

To me this is like the zone v man argument that we hear most years after a loss. "We should play more man because the zone isn't effective."

Were their offenses far superior to ours because of who they were running the offenses against or the personnel they have running them. Or would they truly be better offensive schemes for the skill sets of the players we put on the court?

Yes.

 

[pearl31]

To me this is like the zone v man argument that we hear most years after a loss. "We should play more man because the zone isn't effective."

Were their offenses far superior to ours because of who they were running the offenses against or the personnel they have running them. Or would they truly be better offensive schemes for the skill sets of the players we put on the court?

just better cuz we suck jb sucks

 

[CuseFaninVT]

To me this is like the zone v man argument that we hear most years after a loss. "We should play more man because the zone isn't effective."

Were their offenses far superior to ours because of who they were running the offenses against or the personnel they have running them. Or would they truly be better offensive schemes for the skill sets of the players we put on the court?

Both teams switched defenses from man to zone. And both teams were able to adjust their offense accordingly.

And UVM's coach is a defense first guy.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

just better cuz we suck jb sucks

No, better because they didn't face sanctions and recruiting restrictions.

But UVM plays 9-10 guys with frequent changes. And have interchangeable players so the second group is just as effective. Their best player broke his foot and they will still win their conference. Imagine how many games we'd win without Battle, or Howard.

 

[kidorange]

More size than ND? Not width- wise.

Obviously we struggle offensively. What exactly should we be running on offense? Who are these teams that are good offensively without good offensive players? What should we be trying to do, specifically?

The Lakers try to run the Warriors offense with different players. How is that working?

Look at Kpom adjusted offense. There are a single digit number of major conference teams rated lower than us. I think I saw a curl yesterday that took four seconds to unfold but it was probably an accident. Work inside out with Marek, post up Moyer, push the ball, move side to side, screen off the ball. I'm far from a basketball expert but the thread pointing out Zero passes in the last 8 possessions says it all. I'll take an attempt at a GS offense without the players because at least it's an attempt.

Last year's roster was good. We were stoked to start the season. Gillon couldn't find anyone inside but we had guys and underachieved.

Can I ask you my original question; is Boeheim doing a good job?

 

[OrangeDW]

Look at Kpom adjusted offense. There are a single digit number of major conference teams rated lower than us. I think I saw a curl yesterday that took four seconds to unfold but it was probably an accident. Work inside out with Marek, post up Moyer, push the ball, move side to side, screen off the ball. I'm far from a basketball expert but the thread pointing out Zero passes in the last 8 possessions says it all. I'll take an attempt at a GS offense without the players because at least it's an attempt.

Last year's roster was good. We were stoked to start the season. Gillon couldn't find anyone inside but we had guys and underachieved.

Can I ask you my original question; is Boeheim doing a good job?

Marek can’t score inside. Working inside out works when you have someone that can score inside.

Post up Moyer? For what? What’s he gonna do?

Push the ball. I miss that too. Have you seen these guys run a break?

Move side to side? Why?

Screen off the ball...for who? To do what?

Our offense sucks. It’s a hard watch. I’m frustrated too watching it, and wish we had better ball movement and more off the ball movement and screens...I don’t know that it would be any more effective right now though.

We have nobody that can score inside. We have two guys that can shoot, one that can create mid range shots for himself, one that’s a decent passer with questionable overall instincts, one forward that’s a good athlete, one forward that can pass, and one forward that can dunk if he’s open. There’s not a lot of skills there at this point. We all knew offense would be a struggle this year.