I Can't Stand Cooney...

[TBCuse11]

Do you ever have anything positive to say about anyone or anything? And you would like the entire board to come down to your level? That would be one charming place.

If you mean blindly agree with every decision JB makes, then no i guess i dont. JB has not done a good job with this team IMO. Agree to disagree. Thats fine.

I wont be offended when i am left off your Christmas card list this year. Just a little sad.

 

[Bayside44]

If you mean blindly agree with every decision JB makes, then no i guess i dont. JB has not done a good job with this team IMO. Agree to disagree. Thats fine.

I wont be offended when i am left off your Christmas card list this year. Just a little sad.

Besides not being able to cure the sick and make guys stay in college what has he done terribly with this group?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Our defense is atrocious this year.

Would love to see first vs second half, particularly FG%.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Besides not being able to cure the sick and make guys stay in college what has he done terribly with this group?

I would've locked Ennis in my garage until July.

 

[Bayside44]

I would've locked Ennis in my garage until July.

I would've bought the lock.

 

[TBCuse11]

Besides not being able to cure the sick and make guys stay in college what has he done terribly with this group?

i didnt say he did anything terrribly. I said i dont think he has done a good job.

Cooney plays too much. Period. He is obviously our best guard (if you dont count G as a guard), but he wears down every year. He is human. JB says its not big deal and kids can play forever... not true. Just look at Trevor's stats the end of last year and i assume this year.

G should be at the PG spot more. He is our best option and its not close. BJ is a better option than Joseph or Buss IMO. Sad, but true. The top of our zone gets shredded every single game. Absolutely picked apart. Cooney is ok, KJ and Buss are not.

No run at all for Chino. Look, we all know he is not good (yet) but you can not play a starting center 40 mins in D1 hoops. Ever. Too much banging. I kn ow JB wants to win, so he goes all out, but it isnt working anyways. Outside of some bottom feeders, we havent beaten anyone. Our guys are gassed, simply put.

... again, people here think if you dont worship every player and every coach on SU that you are a bad fan. So be it. I go to almost every game, i watch all the others. I cheer as loud as anyone, i wish the best for every player each and every game. But no one is perfect, even JB. This has not been his best year. And that doesnt even factor in the 2nd post season ban on his watch.

There is always next year for the tourney, we hope...

 

[pfister1]

If you sit Cooney your options are:

Kaleb and Buss, G at the 3
G and Kaleb / Buss and BJ at the 3

We're not that good, doing either generally makes us worse on the floor - which we can afford in some games but against that Duke team yesterday we couldn't.

Almost anytime you sub for a starter the team on the floor is going to be worse. That's pretty much understood.

No one is suggesting that we should go 10 minute stretches without Cooney in the game, at least I haven't seen that suggested. Just that he seems to lose his legs late in every game and it seems like its happening earlier and earlier in games as the season goes on. Maybe a couple of blows during the game would help him to be more consistent in the time that he is in there.

JB loves to take the air out of the ball at end of game situations. You could even do that a bit and limit the possessions when Cooney is out if you truly believe that you have no hope of scoring with him not in there.

This argument is silly. Clearly our offense doesn't run as well if you take Cooney out, but to think you can't have him out of the game at all is ridiculous. Even if you give up a 0-6 run. It might be worth the couple of threes he hits when he returns with fresh legs if they are traded off against clanked shots he's throwing up with dead legs.

 

[two3zone]

I would've bought the lock.

That might be a violation. I won't tell the NCAA though.

 

[Bayside44]

i didnt say he did anything terrribly. I said i dont think he has done a good job.

Cooney plays too much. Period. He is obviously our best guard (if you dont count G as a guard), but he wears down every year. He is human. JB says its not big deal and kids can play forever... not true. Just look at Trevor's stats the end of last year and i assume this year.

G should be at the PG spot more. He is our best option and its not close. BJ is a better option than Joseph or Buss IMO. Sad, but true. The top of our zone gets shredded every single game. Absolutely picked apart. Cooney is ok, KJ and Buss are not.

No run at all for Chino. Look, we all know he is not good (yet) but you can not play a starting center 40 mins in D1 hoops. Ever. Too much banging. I kn ow JB wants to win, so he goes all out, but it isnt working anyways. Outside of some bottom feeders, we havent beaten anyone. Our guys are gassed, simply put.

... again, people here think if you dont worship every player and every coach on SU that you are a bad fan. So be it. I go to almost every game, i watch all the others. I cheer as loud as anyone, i wish the best for every player each and every game. But no one is perfect, even JB. This has not been his best year. And that doesnt even factor in the 2nd post season ban on his watch.

There is always next year for the tourney, we hope...

Here's the funny part about the Cooney stuff - everyone who says sit him asks for more G - G is playing just as many minutes.

In a battle of bad card hands I think I'd take Buss over BJ (BJ to me looks totally lost except against a BC type of program).

Chino is a project - if we need to have him go out and give 3 quick fouls fine but that's all it is.

 

[Bayside44]

Almost anytime you sub for a starter the team on the floor is going to be worse. That's pretty much understood.

No one is suggesting that we should go 10 minute stretches without Cooney in the game, at least I haven't seen that suggested. Just that he seems to lose his legs late in every game and it seems like its happening earlier and earlier in games as the season goes on. Maybe a couple of blows during the game would help him to be more consistent in the time that he is in there.

JB loves to take the air out of the ball at end of game situations. You could even do that a bit and limit the possessions when Cooney is out if you truly believe that you have no hope of scoring with him not in there.

This argument is silly. Clearly our offense doesn't run as well if you take Cooney out, but to think you can't have him out of the game at all is ridiculous. Even if you give up a 0-6 run. It might be worth the couple of threes he hits when he returns with fresh legs if they are traded off against clanked shots he's throwing up with dead legs.

Yeah but in this case the dropoff is really bad -unlike prior years. We just lost too many players too soon and it caught up to us. Frankly the guys we talk about being out there generally aren't capable (yet). Personally I have a hard time believing a minute here or there matters.

I'm not gonna do the research but I remember watching St Johns as a kid and Chris Mullin, Mark Jackson, etc all played 40 minutes and were in worse shape than Cooney by a mile.

 

[Ghost]

Here's the funny part about the Cooney stuff - everyone who says sit him asks for more G - G is playing just as many minutes.

In a battle of bad card hands I think I'd take Buss over BJ (BJ to me looks totally lost except against a BC type of program).

Chino is a project - if we need to have him go out and give 3 quick fouls fine but that's all it is.

Do you think anyone plays the type of minutes that Cooney and Rak do though?

Cooney runs around endlessly on offense. The amount of movement for that kid I would say exceeds the other guards by a considerable margin - just an opinion, but I would say it's true. Do you think playing guard is more taxing than forward in the zone?

I think Rak also is in a bad spot in that quite often he is going toe-to-toe in the post. Which is quite a battle and VERY taxing on the body. He also has to beat his man down the court on defense so you often see him on a dead sprint to get back on D against transition teams like Carolina, Duke, etc...The forwards, as we all see at times (Duke being a good example of this) can take a little bit more of a break getting back on defense at times. That's not to say they take a walk down court every other possession btw.

There have been games where Rak and Cooney look straight up busted. Cooney bent over looking like a wreck. There was one game, maybe Wake Forest, early in the ACC schedule, where Rak could barely work his way down court he was so gassed at the end of the first half. It's phenomenal that they do play 40 so much, it's awesome, but is it always so necessary?

 

[Bayside44]

Do you think anyone plays the type of minutes that Cooney and Rak do though?

Cooney runs around endlessly on offense. The amount of movement for that kid I would say exceeds the other guards by a considerable margin - just an opinion, but I would say it's true. Do you think playing guard is more taxing than forward in the zone?

I think Rak also is in a bad spot in that quite often he is going toe-to-toe in the post. Which is quite a battle and VERY taxing on the body. He also has to beat his man down the court on defense so you often see him on a dead sprint to get back on D against transition teams like Carolina, Duke, etc...The forwards, as we all see at times (Duke being a good example of this) can take a little bit more of a break getting back on defense at times. That's not to say they take a walk down court every other possession btw.

There have been games where Rak and Cooney look straight up busted. Cooney bent over looking like a wreck. There was one game, maybe Wake Forest, early in the ACC schedule, where Rak could barely work his way down court he was so gassed at the end of the first half. It's phenomenal that they do play 40 so much, it's awesome, but is it always so necessary?

Believe me if i thought we had capable backup options I'd agree with you. I just don't think this team has it. I'd rather have Andy, Devo, Triche but it is what it is.

 

[TBCuse11]

Do you think anyone plays the type of minutes that Cooney and Rak do though?

Cooney runs around endlessly on offense. The amount of movement for that kid I would say exceeds the other guards by a considerable margin - just an opinion, but I would say it's true. Do you think playing guard is more taxing than forward in the zone?

I think Rak also is in a bad spot in that quite often he is going toe-to-toe in the post. Which is quite a battle and VERY taxing on the body. He also has to beat his man down the court on defense so you often see him on a dead sprint to get back on D against transition teams like Carolina, Duke, etc...The forwards, as we all see at times (Duke being a good example of this) can take a little bit more of a break getting back on defense at times. That's not to say they take a walk down court every other possession btw.

There have been games where Rak and Cooney look straight up busted. Cooney bent over looking like a wreck. There was one game, maybe Wake Forest, early in the ACC schedule, where Rak could barely work his way down court he was so gassed at the end of the first half. It's phenomenal that they do play 40 so much, it's awesome, but is it always so necessary?

yeah not sure how anyone cant grasp the concept that 40 mins for Cooney are not the same as 40 mins for anyone else. G can get open with little effort and Rak stands down low most the time. Cooney is limited athletically, so he has to work extremely hard to get open. He also usually draws the best defender on the other team. Cooney is visibly gassed all the time now. It has caught up with him.

I would like Cooney to sit from the 7 to the 4 min mark each half.

 

[CuseCPT]

If you mean blindly agree with every decision JB makes, then no i guess i dont. JB has not done a good job with this team IMO. Agree to disagree. Thats fine.

I wont be offended when i am left off your Christmas card list this year. Just a little sad.

God forbid anyone would like to disagree with anything JB does.

 

[TinyManInside]

If we still had McCullough then I think we could spare a few minutes with G at the 2 and Cooney on the bench, but otherwise we really don't have any viable options.

 

[Ghost]

If we still had McCullough then I think we could spare a few minutes with G at the 2 and Cooney on the bench, but otherwise we really don't have any viable options.

If Cooney were a generational talent I would be on board with this wholeheartedly, truly. I'm just not seeing it.

Is Patterson that much worse than Cooney that for two minutes the team would implode? Christmas would suddenly run into the stands and eat popcorn, G would take his shorts off and put them on his head, and Roberson would try to tear the net down to crochet his grandmother a scarf?

Here is the sequence when Cooney sat out versus Pitt:

13:29 Ron Patterson substitution (IN) 50 - 51
13:29 Trevor Cooney substitution (OUT) 50 - 51

13:13 Rakeem Christmas made 2-point shot 52 - 51 (SYRACUSE 2 - PITT 0)
13:13 Ron Patterson assist 52 - 51 (Hey, Ronnie Patterson with nobody guarding him!)
13:00
52 - 51 James Robinson turnover
12:59 Michael Gbinije steal 52 - 51
12:56
52 - 51 Chris Jones personal foul
12:56 Kaleb Joseph made free throw 53 - 51 (Say what, with Cooney off the floor????)
12:56 Kaleb Joseph made free throw 54 - 51 (SYRACUSE 4 - PITT 0)
12:34
54 - 51 James Robinson missed 2-point shot
12:34
54 - 51 Pittsburgh team rebound
12:29
54 - 53 Jamel Artis made 2-point shot (SYRACUSE 4 - PITT 2)
12:29
54 - 53 James Robinson assist
12:07 Tyler Roberson missed 2-point shot 54 - 53
12:07 Ron Patterson offensive rebound 54 - 53 (Adios!!! With nobody guarding him???)
12:03 Kaleb Joseph made 3-point shot 57 - 53 (SYRACUSE 7 - PITT 2) (What? Unpossible?)
12:03 Michael Gbinije assist 57 - 53
11:42
57 - 53 Media Timeout
11:42
57 - 53 Josh Newkirk substitution (IN)
11:42
57 - 53 Sheldon Jeter substitution (OUT)
11:23
57 - 53 Josh Newkirk missed 3-point shot
11:23 Rakeem Christmas defensive rebound 57 - 53
11:02 Kaleb Joseph missed 2-point shot 57 - 53
11:02 Syracuse team rebound 57 - 53
11:02
57 - 53 Chris Jones personal foul
11:02 Tyler Roberson made free throw 58 - 53
11:02 Tyler Roberson missed free throw 58 - 53 (SYRACUSE 8 - PITT 2) (Huh? 8 points? How the what?)
11:02
58 - 53 Michael Young defensive rebound
11:02 Trevor Cooney substitution (IN) 58 - 53
11:02 Ron Patterson substitution (OUT)

8-2, with a mised a free throw by Roberson. Could have been 9-2.

That's our nightmare scenario.

Obviously we could go 2-8 in a two minute stretch as well. We could go 2-8 in that 2 minute stretch with Cooney on the floor jacking up fadeaway threes on tired legs. Who knows. It doesn't look like having Patterson and Kaleb on the floor at the same time led to the undoing of Rak, G and Roberson though for 150 seconds.

I really just don't see it. If someone could clearly explain what would happen if Cooney sits for 150 seconds per half I would be thrilled.

Is nobody going to guard Patterson? If not, I'm sure our HOF coach has a trick up his sleeve for the unguarded player to score. He's not some kind of spazz that's never played basketball before. Look above...he does stuff sometimes.

Again, we are a MUCH better team with Cooney in the game. But he also seems gassed - a lot. How many times a year do we hear the commentators mention that Cooney is sitting out there tugging on his shorts panting.

If the situation allows, I'd get Rak and Cooney a breather. That's it. The idea that we cannot do that is mind-boggling. Cooney is not Billy Owens. He's not even Devo. He's not even BT.

And, just for super-special extra-emphasis:

As soon as Cooney came back in Pitt scored the next 8 points and we went down 61-58. So the whole notion that the world would end with Cooney off the floor seems seriously flawed...even if but for one day.

Oh, and before Cooney came out Pitt was on a 7-1 run.

So, there is that too.

Hey now!!

 

[RF2044]

If you mean blindly agree with every decision JB makes, then no i guess i dont. JB has not done a good job with this team IMO. Agree to disagree. Thats fine.

I wont be offended when i am left off your Christmas card list this year. Just a little sad.

Besides not being able to cure the sick and make guys stay in college what has he done terribly with this group?

Nothing. In fact, he 's done a pretty damn good job coaching up the team's offensive play, given where the team started in November, and given depth constraints.

I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how some don't recognize this.

 

[Ghost]

If Cooney were a generational talent I would be on board with this wholeheartedly, truly. I'm just not seeing it.

Thank you both for the likes.. However, I am doing a 180 on my stance.

I am going all in on Cooney playing every minute of every game 4ver. We simply cannot score if Cooney is not on the floor. It's literally not a possibility.

I also now believe if you put a sumo wrestler in goal you would have a shutout every game in hockey. Boom. Take it to the bank. Prove me wrong.

#cooney4vr

 

[Bayside44]

Thank you both for the likes.. However, I am doing a 180 on my stance.

I am going all in on Cooney playing every minute of every game 4ver. We simply cannot score if Cooney is not on the floor. It's literally not a possibility.

I also now believe if you put a sumo wrestler in goal you would have a shutout every game in hockey. Boom. Take it to the bank. Prove me wrong.

#cooney4vr

If you want to count on Kaleb scoring 5 points in a 2 minute stretch to prove your point well so be it. :noidea:

 

[skurey]

Yeah if you want to count on the facts that support your argument so be it.:crazy:

 

[Ghost]

If you want to count on Kaleb scoring 5 points in a 2 minute stretch to prove your point well so be it. :noidea:

If you want to count on...uh, Trevor Cooney being a once in lifetime talent or something along those lines, or simply nothing at all other than...uh, nothing, to support your argument. So be it.

What was the score in the three minutes before Trevor went to the bench? 7-1 Pitt.

What was the score for the three minutes after he came in? 8-0 Pitt.

What was the score the 2 and half-minutes he was on the bench? 8-2 Syracuse.

There is something to be said for just going with a change of pace at times. Giving a kid a blow. A change of something...why not? Give the defense a different look. Whatever. Basketball isn't a science.

Cooney runs around a lot and shoots a ton of threes, and makes a somewhat low percentage of them. He rarely creates offense for anyone else. He occupies a defender. I concede that readily.

So we bring in Patterson and have the defense not guard him for a bit. What happens?

Does the team shut down?

Seriously? Why can't we score in that situation for a couple minutes a game. Will G and Rak fall down?

Methinks he really isn't the game-changing generational talent some of you thinks he is...

 

[Bayside44]

If you want to count on...uh, Trevor Cooney being a once in lifetime talent or something along those lines, or simply nothing at all other than...uh, nothing, to support your argument. So be it.

What was the score in the three minutes before Trevor went to the bench? 7-1 Pitt.

What was the score for the three minutes after he came in? 8-0 Pitt.

What was the score the 2 and half-minutes he was on the bench? 8-2 Syracuse.

There is something to be said for just going with a change of pace at times. Giving a kid a blow. A change of something...why not? Give the defense a different look. Whatever. Basketball isn't a science.

Cooney runs around a lot and shoots a ton of threes, and makes a somewhat low percentage of them. He rarely creates offense for anyone else. He occupies a defender. I concede that readily.

So we bring in Patterson and have the defense not guard him for a bit. What happens?

Does the team shut down?

Seriously? Why can't we score in that situation for a couple minutes a game. Will G and Rak fall down?

Methinks he really isn't the game-changing generational talent some of you thinks he is...

I barely think Cooney should be playing at SU to begin with - I think the guys and and options behind him are that much worse.

We're on the wrong side of all these pushes this year - I will cop to thinking that Cooney can give the team a puncher's chance and defer judgement to JB who knows these guys a lot better.

 

[rrlbees]

G can get open with little effort

I love G, especially his versatility. But you realize he doesn't work to get open because teams let him have those jumpers? All his 3's are wide open clean looks with little work. Teams might start smartening up. K did on Saturday between the 1st and 2nd half. They actually guarded him at the 3 point line the 2nd half and he could only even get one 3 off. To his credit, he took advantage of being closely guarded by going to the hole more. Versatility. 1st half they let him have that shot, and to his credit, he made them pay. But on his jumper, he never has to curl around a screen, come off a pick or get the 3 off his dribble.

 

[Ghost]

We're on the wrong side of all these pushes this year - I will cop to thinking that Cooney can give the team a puncher's chance and defer judgement to JB who knows these guys a lot better.

That's very fair.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I like the idea of putting Cooney on the bench for a couple minutes just for the simple fact it will freak out the opposing coach who has set his defense to making sure that Cooney doesn't get a shot off. What does he do then? Changing things up just once in a while is a good thing.