I feel like Syracuse football is the definition of Insanity...

[JrodCuse]

Let me start this off by saying I'm 35 and I've been a life long fan. My dad grew up in Syracuse and graduated from the university. I'd spend my childhoods visiting romping around in Syracuse. I'm not local to Syracuse but I've watched every game, even the ones during the Gerg years. The fact that we're about to have two terrible years in a row after having just gone through 6 terrible years before a few decent years is maddening. I'm at the point now where I'm just completely numb to the losses and I'm not even interested in watching the Clemson game. I'm going to plan other things for Saturday afternoon. I'll check the scores and see, to no surprise, something along the lines of Clemson 28 - Syracuse 7 midway through the 2nd quarter. The fact we've sunk this low and even some die hards, and I consider myself a die hard. Not only am I a die hard but I'm also an eternal optimist and I can't find anything optimistic about this coaching staff when it comes down to game management and X's and O's. The fact that apathy is setting in and fans are starting to expect losing seasons is 100% a sign that a coaching change has to happen. I feel like last week was the week the kids finally gave up on Shafer. There are only so many back-breaking losses a team can suffer in a short period of time before they start tuning out coaching. This isn't even an angry post, its more of a sad one, accepting that after a few decent years we are once again heading into a death spiral unless there are some serious changes made. I'm not going to list potential candidates, I'll leave that to the more analytic based people on this forum. I just feel very strongly that it is time for a change. Not a change just to make a change, but a change to help right the ship and bring in someone who resonates in today's landscape of college football. Someone who can get us to put 30+ points a week with the occassional 40-50 point games. We have the facilities and with the dome renovation coming down the pike we'll have one of the best set of facilities in the country outside of a select few powerhouse programs.

I feel strongly that Coyle will make the right decision and bring in a new staff that truly gets today's college football and isn't trying to hold opponents under 17, because that day and age is loooong gone. Ok rant over from this die hard fan.

 

[Ozcuse]

I'm 34 and yeah, pretty much the same thing. Maybe it's age and how we vaguely remember the good times but mostly the bad ones.

 

[JrodCuse]

Yea age has something to do with it but I remember the good times very vividly. Those early 90's battles with Miami were my formative sports years. I remember the dome shaking when we fell short at the 1 yard line against Miami. I've been in the dome for some big games and it's just sad how far we've fallen and how many insane stats there are showing how inept we've been over the past almost 2 decades now.

I think nunes posted a stat saying 100 other programs have had a 9 win season since our last one. That's just about the most sad statistic I've ever seen. A stat like that just even further shows that we HAVE to make a change. What's the worst possible thing that happens? More 3 to 7 win seasons? We already have that. What's the best that happens? We land a savant offensive mind who realizes "holy crap we have a dome let's go vertical and throw for 400+ yards a game!". To me that's why we have to change. Not changing is an even bigger death knell. Just more apathy and more 3,4,5,6 win seasons. Whoopie.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Let me start this off by saying I'm 35 and I've been a life long fan. My dad grew up in Syracuse and graduated from the university. I'd spend my childhoods visiting romping around in Syracuse. I'm not local to Syracuse but I've watched every game, even the ones during the Gerg years. The fact that we're about to have two terrible years in a row after having just gone through 6 terrible years before a few decent years is maddening. I'm at the point now where I'm just completely numb to the losses and I'm not even interested in watching the Clemson game. I'm going to plan other things for Saturday afternoon. I'll check the scores and see, to no surprise, something along the lines of Clemson 28 - Syracuse 7 midway through the 2nd quarter. The fact we've sunk this low and even some die hards, and I consider myself a die hard. Not only am I a die hard but I'm also an eternal optimist and I can't find anything optimistic about this coaching staff when it comes down to game management and X's and O's. The fact that apathy is setting in and fans are starting to expect losing seasons is 100% a sign that a coaching change has to happen. I feel like last week was the week the kids finally gave up on Shafer. There are only so many back-breaking losses a team can suffer in a short period of time before they start tuning out coaching. This isn't even an angry post, its more of a sad one, accepting that after a few decent years we are once again heading into a death spiral unless there are some serious changes made. I'm not going to list potential candidates, I'll leave that to the more analytic based people on this forum. I just feel very strongly that it is time for a change. Not a change just to make a change, but a change to help right the ship and bring in someone who resonates in today's landscape of college football. Someone who can get us to put 30+ points a week with the occassional 40-50 point games. We have the facilities and with the dome renovation coming down the pike we'll have one of the best set of facilities in the country outside of a select few powerhouse programs.

I feel strongly that Coyle will make the right decision and bring in a new staff that truly gets today's college football and isn't trying to hold opponents under 17, because that day and age is loooong gone. Ok rant over from this die hard fan.

Do you promise. To make a return and comment if a new coaching staff in 3 years is on the hot seat and say maybe its just because we haven't had any real continuity in the program. Because its pretty clear to me that some people on this board thinks it takes less than three years to see progress and or results in college football. I hope you have fun doing what you decide to do Saturday. Me Ill be at the game because I don't go to the games because of who is coaching on the sidelines. I go for the players.

 

[JrodCuse]

Make a return? I'm here on a daily basis. It isn't like I'm some out of the blue guy posting this. You're coming at me like I'm attacking this team or the coaching staff. I'm just stating facts and the facts are we aren't very good and truly haven't been in a long, long time asides from a few random years with a senior-laden roster. Let's take a look at the 3 coaches we've had since P was let go. 2 of them are defensive minded coaches who weren't good game managers. 1 was an offensive minded coach who was a good game manager. The defensive minded coaches combined record: 23-58. The offensive minded coaches record: 25-25. We need an offensive minded coach at this school. If we hire one and they don't work out, ok fine, but to continue down this road just for the sake of continuity is just as bad, if not worse, than making change just to make change.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Do you promise. To make a return and comment if a new coaching staff in 3 years is on the hot seat and say maybe its just because we haven't had any real continuity in the program. Because its pretty clear to me that some people on this board thinks it takes less than three years to see progress and or results in college football. I hope you have fun doing what you decide to do Saturday. Me Ill be at the game because I don't go to the games because of who is coaching on the sidelines. I go for the players.

3 years is enough time in 2015 when you look incompetent

 

[HeaterCuse22]

3 years is enough time in 2015.

So if Coyle fires Shafer, and hires a new coach, you will be here in three years calling for his head. - Actually probably sooner as we are at 2.5 years with Shafer and really last season regardless of injury I am sure you had your mind made up?

I think that is incredibly unfortunate way to be a fan. But to each their own.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

So if Coyle fires Shafer, and hires a new coach, you will be here in three years calling for his head. - Actually probably sooner as we are at 2.5 years with Shafer and really last season regardless of injury I am sure you had your mind made up?

I think that is incredibly unfortunate way to be a fan. But to each their own.

If he looks incompetent with no real plan in place, yes I have been pretty clear. 3 years is enough time to show you at least know what you are doing. Fans like to win or at least entertainment not subject themselves to 3.5 hours of pain and a circus show on Saturdays

 

[Scooch]

Do you promise. To make a return and comment if a new coaching staff in 3 years is on the hot seat and say maybe its just because we haven't had any real continuity in the program. Because its pretty clear to me that some people on this board thinks it takes less than three years to see progress and or results in college football. I hope you have fun doing what you decide to do Saturday. Me Ill be at the game because I don't go to the games because of who is coaching on the sidelines. I go for the players.

It takes three years, generally speaking...

http://syracusefan.com/threads/year-3-tends-to-be-when-you-kinda-sorta-know.95769/

 

[HeaterCuse22]

If he looks incompetent with no real plan in place, yes I have been pretty clear. 3 years is enough time to show you at least know what you are doing. Fans like to win or at least entertainment not subject themselves to 3.5 hours of pain and a circus show on Saturdays

When you say "fans" you are speaking for whom? Because I am a fan. and I don't feel that way.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

It takes three years, generally speaking...

http://syracusefan.com/threads/year-3-tends-to-be-when-you-kinda-sorta-know.95769/

There are likely plenty of examples that can show that 3 years is not enough also. But that's cool. I think the magic # is 4 maybe 5. By then you have a whole class of kids who are yours and the oldest are seniors. That is my take.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

When you say "fans" you are speaking for whom? Because I am a fan. and I don't feel that way.

Of course. You and the 12K in the dome on Saturday can have all the fun you want. Enjoy it.

I will be digging my finger nails out with a butter knife, its less painful

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[Scooch]

There are likely plenty of examples that can show that 3 years is not enough also. But that's cool. I think the magic # is 4 maybe 5. By then you have a whole class of kids who are yours and the oldest are seniors. That is my take.

The thing is, if you look at the data I pulled, it really tends to be 3 years. Almost every head coach of a top ~35 team right now had their program showing meaningful progress in year #3. And where those programs came from (meaning their amount of wins prior to the new coach starting) was all over the map. But the constant is that year #3 is when things come together.

Obviously there are exceptions, but then we have to consider if Shafer is worthy of waiting things out to see if he's an outlier. I'm not sure what rationale there is to do that other than a theoretical approach that a coach must be given 4 years regardless of W/L results.

 

[Scooch]

That's the right thing to have Floyd say.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

That's the right thing to have Floyd say.

Agreed. Not much else can be said at this point.

 

[TheCusian]

The thing is, if you look at the data I pulled, it really tends to be 3 years. Almost every head coach of a top ~35 team right now had their program showing meaningful progress in year #3. And where those programs came from (meaning their amount of wins prior to the new coach starting) was all over the map. But the constant is that year #3 is when things come together. Obviously there are exceptions, but then we have to consider if Shafer is worthy of waiting things out to see if he's an outlier. I'm not sure what rationale there is to do that other than a theoretical approach that a coach must be given 4 years regardless of W/L results.

Yeah - I think if the offense was showing improvement and we were still losing, I'd be more willing to give him a 1 year do-over on McBubble. But the last two games we went in reverse and did worse offensively than the opponents defense suggests.

That - combined - with bone head decisions? I'm ready to say thanks for the great D over the past 7, thanks for being a fiery coach who cares about his guys - and good luck in your next job.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yeah - I think if the offense was showing improvement and we were still losing, I'd be more willing to give him a 1 year do-over on McBubble. But the last two games we went in reverse and did worse offensively than the opponents defense suggests.

That - combined - with bone head decisions? I'm ready to say thanks for the great D over the past 7, thanks for being a fiery coach who cares about his guys - and good luck in your next job.

Agreed, which he will find as a DC in about a week. Wont be surprised to see him at Illinois/ Purdue/ Indiana or Minny as their DC

 

[AZOrange]

When you say "fans" you are speaking for whom? Because I am a fan. and I don't feel that way.

I'm sure you like to win and not be subject to a circus show on Saturday...

 

[SoBristol]

...Let's take a look at the 3 coaches we've had since P was let go. 2 of them are defensive minded coaches who weren't good game managers. 1 was an offensive minded coach who was a good game manager. The defensive minded coaches combined record: 23-58. The offensive minded coaches record: 25-25. We need an offensive minded coach at this school. ...

Well, it isn't clear that offense carried the day for Marrone, other than in 2012 when he had a senior QB and seniors at the WR spots. A solid opportunistic defense was the biggest factor in 2010. But at least he showed how to build a team, use JUCOs to fill gaps, and manage games.
Offensive minded might be one good attribute -- I would go with someone who can sell a program and lift recruiting.

 

[orangeinjersey]

That means the feelers are out

 

[Scooch]

I'm sure you like to win and not be subject to a circus show on Saturday...

No way. Sports is not about entertainment and enjoyment. It's about enduring!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Well, it isn't clear that offense carried the day for Marrone, other than in 2012 when he had a senior QB and seniors at the WR spots. A solid opportunistic defense was the biggest factor in 2010. But at least he showed how to build a team, use JUCOs to fill gaps, and manage games.
Offensive minded might be one good attribute -- I would go with someone who can sell a program and lift recruiting.

Sure as long as as he can coach too.

 

[Ringostar57]

They are already evaluating. 3 games left. 2 wins may buy a year.with some changes......3 losses no.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Why does someone who roots for the players want to keep a HC who isn't getting the job done? If the next hire isn't doing the job in 3 years, yes they should be fired too. No one is asking Shafer to win the ACC, we just want 6 wins.

I mean do we need to go back and see how many people here were saying this was a 7-8 win team back in September. I like Shafer a lot, but it's obvious this isn't going anywhere.