I hate the fact that Syracuse == Zone | Syracusefan.com

I hate the fact that Syracuse == Zone

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OrangeFoo

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The system has overtaken the team. We recruit only for the zone, we coach only for the zone, we are the zone... anyone think it's any coincidence that we stink at anything but playing the zone?

Outside of one exception (the wes/andy/ao show) There has been a pretty consistent trend since GMAC left that if we can't turnovers from the zone and get run outs we are putrid on offense. Our players just don't know how to play a half-court game anymore. If we don't have a superior talent like Dion or Melo or Gmac we don't score well. We need to go back to becoming a basketball team first and the zone second.
 
Good luck with this thread. It would have more traction among the tons of alums who don't bother to post in these fanboy-dominated forums.

What's always amusing is to listen to how much talk the broadcasters give to the zone, even while it's ineffective, and the other team is crushing us with m2m. Not a peep about their m2m, so all the light thinkers believe the zone is actually the story either way.
 
dasher said:
I think you have to be able to play more than 1 defense. If we could press, we could create offense.
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this- we need to be able to change it up every so often- the zone may work but its still sad wr never try and confuse teams by changing it up. i love jb and he has won so many games but at what point does complete aversion to changing defense for short periods turn to being bad for the team vs a legend sticking to his stubborn tendencies.
 
How many easy shots did we get in the half court set?

How many easy shots did they get in the half court set?
 
dasher said:
I think you have to be able to play more than 1 defense. If we could press, we could create offense.
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are you really saying what I am reading...something about some coaching strategy that I have been critical of this year.

The world has flipped when Dasher follows in my footsteps
 
Zelda Zonk said:
Good luck with this thread. It would have more traction among the tons of alums who don't bother to post in these fanboy-dominated forums
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Are those alumni the ones that go to away games and fill up the Dome?

Waaa I dont like Boeheim and people are mean to me because they appreciate what he's meant to SU. I've met one alumni who bitched about JB, remarkably that genius hadn't been to a game since he graduated and had no idea that we had a game the following. Given that anti JB representative, I'll take the fanboys here any day.
 
teams that spend a week preparing for zone. suppose (use your imagination here) we come out in man...
 
We should be able to diversify, that being said we just came of 2 years where we had as good or better of a chance to win a National Championship as anyone if not for the curse that has befallen our stud Centers, so obviously it works. This years team is just a mess of no shooting and players who dont mesh mixed in with some questionable coaching decisions ie Boeheim's Jedi Mind tricks on Rak all season.
 
NKR1978 said:
Are those alumni the ones that go to away games and fill up the Dome?

Waaa I dont like Boeheim and people are mean to me because they appreciate what he's meant to SU. I've met one alumni who bitched about JB, remarkably that genius hadn't been to a game since he graduated and had no idea that we had a game the following. Given that anti JB representative, I'll take the fanboys here any day.
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Yes, they go to games. No, they're not often in Syracuse. I wonder, though, how either of those 'criteria' have any affect on the logic or soundness of a particular argument. Either way, you're erroneously trying to encapsulate a diversity of attributed sentiments into one childish soundbite - not sure if that's because it makes it easier for you to understand them, or if that's all you're actually perceiving. Regardless, your analogy about one alum is quite meaningless.
 
Huh? We're 11th defensively in KenPom, and 2nd in the BE in FG% defense. I promise you that we'd be lauding our defense if we could only score.
 
PhatOrange said:
I hate the fact that gtowns zone stifled us today.
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Theirs was an active zone that pushed our shooters off their spots, contained dribble penetration, forced turnovers, and generally moved around. Kind of like how ours was in the past three seasons.
 
raf4488 said:
Huh? We're 11th defensively in KenPom, and 2nd in the BE in FG% defense. I promise you that we'd be lauding our defense if we could only score.
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You missed the entire point of my post... I even said the only thing we do well is play zone and in fact the zone is probably the only reason we are making the big dance. My point is we excel at the zone seemingly at a negative to the other components of the game. My biggest beef is that playing time is 100% tied to how well a player plays the zone. Three examples of this:

1. I'm not saying I know whether Cooney can shoot or not but in my opinion he is a better ball handler than Triche or MCW and definitely a more consistent defender than MCW but one open three in the zone and he is benched... Whereas MCW and Triche can turn the ball over with impunity possessions after possession.

2. DC3 had a pretty good offensive game for a high school kid yet he hasn't developed at all this year... Wonder why? Because he get yanked off the floor because he can't play the zone so he never has time to develop his game.

3. When we recruit we prioritize the ability to play the zone rather than plsy basketball... That's how you end up with a team that is so offensively challenged.

The zone is a great D but it would be great to go back to getting great basketball players and not great athletes who can play the zone.
 
OrangeFoo said:
The system has overtaken the team. We recruit only for the zone, we coach only for the zone, we are the zone... anyone think it's any coincidence that we stink at anything but playing the zone?

Outside of one exception (the wes/andy/ao show) There has been a pretty consistent trend since GMAC left that if we can't turnovers from the zone and get run outs we are putrid on offense. Our players just don't know how to play a half-court game anymore. If we don't have a superior talent like Dion or Melo or Gmac we don't score well. We need to go back to becoming a basketball team first and the zone second.
Expand...

What does playing a zone defense have to do with having an impotent half court offense?

Are you saying that the type of players that are able to function well in a zone defense are somehow unable to play half court offense well?
 
samspann1 said:
900+ wins, how many do you have?

Blah, blah, blah, etc...
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When the average fan starts to question some of the strategies being employed or substitution patterns, I'm reminded of the phase about Opinions: and "azzholes". Everyone has them.
 
Townie72 said:
What does playing a zone defense have to do with having an impotent half court offense?

Are you saying that the type of players that are able to function well in a zone defense are somehow unable to play half court offense well?
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Ever wonder why there are great running QB's and great passing QBs but the ones who are considered to be great at both are the truly great players? Well it's just like that... when you recruit for the zone you are looking for tall/long/quick twitch athletes. I'm not saying these types of athletes can't play well in a half-court set but typically these types of athletes have relied on their athleticism rather than their basketball skills to get by... the great athletes who are also great basketball players tend to be the elite players in the game... Dion was one, Shabazz Muhammed, Melo was another one... but these types of players are few and far between.

I find it interesting that Duke recruits great basketball players rather than looking for the best athletes and year in year out their team is top 5 in the country. Now compare to UNC which since Roy Boy has gotten there has fallen into the trap of recruiting athletes and look how inconsistent they are. When they have basketball players they are good when they just have athletes they aren't so great.

Ask yourself this... would our current version of JB have recruited GMAC? I know in your world where JB is omniscient and can do no wrong we would... but I have doubts given how poorly GMAC played the zone.
 
OrangeFoo said:
Ever wonder why there are great running QB's and great passing QBs but the ones who are considered to be great at both are the truly great players? Well it's just like that... when you recruit for the zone you are looking for tall/long/quick twitch athletes. I'm not saying these types of athletes can't play well in a half-court set but typically these types of athletes have relied on their athleticism rather than their basketball skills to get by... the great athletes who are also great basketball players tend to be the elite players in the game... Dion was one, Shabazz Muhammed, Melo was another one... but these types of players are few and far between.

I find it interesting that Duke recruits great basketball players rather than looking for the best athletes and year in year out their team is top 5 in the country. Now compare to UNC which since Roy Boy has gotten there has fallen into the trap of recruiting athletes and look how inconsistent they are. When they have basketball players they are good when they just have athletes they aren't so great.

Ask yourself this... would our current version of JB have recruited GMAC? I know in your world where JB is omniscient and can do no wrong we would... but I have doubts given how poorly GMAC played the zone.
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I get the point, Foo. I have been thinking about that myself.

But its not going to change. We are committed to the current direction.
 
Townie72 said:
I get the point, Foo. I have been thinking about that myself.

But its not going to change. We are committed to the current direction.
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I suspect it will change... some time in the next couple of years in fact. I just hope that we have a couple of good basketball players among all the zone recruits so JB can go out on top.
 
OrangeFoo said:
I suspect it will change... some time in the next couple of years in fact. I just hope that we have a couple of good basketball players among all the zone recruits so JB can go out on top.
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Well, I LOVE the zone. I hope we never abandon it. I hope I never see a M2M defensive set by the Orange.

But the lack of offensive basketball skills of the current Orange are really a problem.
 
OrangeFoo said:
The system has overtaken the team. We recruit only for the zone, we coach only for the zone, we are the zone... anyone think it's any coincidence that we stink at anything but playing the zone?

Outside of one exception (the wes/andy/ao show) There has been a pretty consistent trend since GMAC left that if we can't turnovers from the zone and get run outs we are putrid on offense. Our players just don't know how to play a half-court game anymore. If we don't have a superior talent like Dion or Melo or Gmac we don't score well. We need to go back to becoming a basketball team first and the zone second.
Expand...

So you think our defense is the problem? Playing the zone has nothing to do with our lack of scoring. Unless you think we recruit players we think will be good in the zone but have no ability to score. Is that what you are saying? I'm not trying to be patronizing but this doesn't make sense to me.
 
cuseinseattle said:
So you think our defense is the problem? Playing the zone has nothing to do with our lack of scoring. Unless you think we recruit players we think will be good in the zone but have no ability to score. Is that what you are saying? I'm not trying to be patronizing but this doesn't make sense to me.
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Yup, that's what he is saying. And it may be valid.

It could be we are assuming offensive skills and paying too much attention to how they will physically fit into the zone.
 
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