I like this grad transfer thing

[skurey]

Especially compared to the circus of HS recruiting.

It seems more professional. Hey you have one year left and we have a spot you can fill. Let's make it happen.

Compared to recruiting which comes with overprotective parents, guarantees, possibly money changing hands, being unsure of how long they will even be here, etc.

 

[Col. Bleep]

...It seems more professional...

Interesting...that's why I don't like it.

Another step in college ball having little to do with school except in the "wink-wink" way.
College more and more becoming a d-league.
Sooner or later the players will have to be paid.

Not sure how much may have changed but interesting article from last year on some of the problems:

NCAA fifth-year transfer rule needs to be fixed, quickly, say coaches

 

[cuse2013]

We love it now! Doubt we would love it as much if we were a Nebraska fan or a Colorado State fan and we just lost our best player for his final year.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's pretty much free agency for college sports. I like it but it's helping us so of course I do.

 

[Consigliere]

Especially compared to the circus of HS recruiting.

It seems more professional. Hey you have one year left and we have a spot you can fill. Let's make it happen.

Compared to recruiting which comes with overprotective parents, guarantees, possibly money changing hands, being unsure of how long they will even be here, etc.

At the very least it offers an effective offset to the epidemic of one and done, draft based on potential developments that leave programs struggling to fill rosters long after most high school talent has been signed, sealed and delivered.

Wondering how long Big Brother turns a blind eye on the requirement that the new school must offer a graduate program that the old school doesn't, though.

 

[RF2044]

At the very least it offers an effective offset to the epidemic of one and done, draft based on potential developments that leave programs struggling to fill rosters long after most high school talent has been signed, sealed and delivered.

Wondering how long Big Brother turns a blind eye on the requirement that the new school must offer a graduate program that the old school doesn't, though.

Not to mention, whether or not coaches are actively recruiting guys on other teams to coerce them to transfer for that fifth year.

Personally speaking, I'm glad as hell we landed Gillon, and I hope that we'll add White. So this year, it really benefited us. I don't foresee too many circumstances where we'd get burned by this. But I'm not a fan of college free agency. Like most things based upon good intentions, what started as a way to reward players who've graduated has turned into an easily exploitable loophole that encourages multiple transfers.

We have no choice but to participate, but not a fan.

 

[reedny]

Not to mention, whether or not coaches are actively recruiting guys on other teams to coerce them to transfer for that fifth year.

Personally speaking, I'm glad as hell we landed Gillon, and I hope that we'll add White. So this year, it really benefited us. I don't foresee too many circumstances where we'd get burned by this. But I'm not a fan of college free agency. Like most things based upon good intentions, what started as a way to reward players who've graduated has turned into an easily exploitable loophole that encourages multiple transfers.

We have no choice but to participate, but not a fan.

I can see why coaches from Nebraska, Penn State, Cleveland State, etc (schools mentioned in the article) hate it. They spend lots of time grooming players and when they're ready to give them the keys to the car, they get jacked by a higher-level program.

The beneficiaries aren't just elite schools, however. The players benefit and I can see why they like the option. Guys like Gillon might not have been elite prospects out of HS. But they worked hard, improved through experience and earned a degree. Why shouldn't these kids be given an opportunity to plug in with a high-major team? White was a little more highly recruited but didn't get the PT he wanted, then moved to a team that wasn't going anywhere. So he now has a shot at a long tourney run and a good look by the NBA.

 

[Briancuse]

It's pretty much free agency for college sports. I like it but it's helping us so of course I do.

I wasn't a big fan of it at first, and it does seem like free agency, but without it, we would be in big trouble next year.

 

[SWC75]

The idea of recruiting another school's player is distasteful and the rule they set up about having a course they don't offer at the old school is nothing more than a bogus loophole. But...

How different is it than signing Bowling Green's football coach because he wanted to move to a better situation? And if we make grad students sit out a year when they transfer, will they still be grad students? So i guess it makes a certain amount of sense.

 

[GonzoInMD]

It's the only thing that benefits the players...so, of course, the coaches want to shut it down.

 

[Consigliere]

Not to mention, whether or not coaches are actively recruiting guys on other teams to coerce them to transfer for that fifth year.

Personally speaking, I'm glad as hell we landed Gillon, and I hope that we'll add White. So this year, it really benefited us. I don't foresee too many circumstances where we'd get burned by this. But I'm not a fan of college free agency. Like most things based upon good intentions, what started as a way to reward players who've graduated has turned into an easily exploitable loophole that encourages multiple transfers.

We have no choice but to participate, but not a fan.

Well, in spirit it's not really free agency. The contract is for the student athlete to attend a school for four years to get a degree and if he plays a sport he doesn't pay tuition or expenses. For fifth year transfers both sides have fulfilled their obligations. Now if the student wants to go on to graduate school and his current school does not offer the program of study he is interested in he can change schools and, if he has not exhausted his four years of eligibility, play a sport and attend for free. And active recruiting and coercion can only occur once a player announces and is granted his release. Yes, again in theory and spirit of the law.

Nothing wrong with that and truly supports the interest of the student athlete. I think Greg Paulus was the perfect example.

It gets a bit murkier when the program of study restriction is not policed and the driving factor is the athlete side of the equation. Not saying that a kid who has successfully completed a degree program should not have an opportunity to spend his last year on a bigger stage (Gillen) or at a program better suited to his skill level (Chino) but in this environment I am a bit more ambivalent.

 

[Bornorange]

You might like it if you were a fifth year player with skills who wants to play in a real basketball program. Playing for Syracuse, on tv, in the dome, in the ACC, is a dream for a lot of young men. Nebraska and Colorado just don't have the right sizzle.

 

[kirbivore]

The idea of recruiting another school's player is distasteful and the rule they set up about having a course they don't offer at the old school is nothing more than a bogus loophole. But...

How different is it than signing Bowling Green's football coach because he wanted to move to a better situation? And if we make grad students sit out a year when they transfer, will they still be grad students? So i guess it makes a certain amount of sense.

or the coaches stalking PSU players in the parking lot after they were allowed to transfer with no penalty from PED st.

 

[Brooky03]

Interesting...that's why I don't like it.

Another step in college ball having little to do with school except in the "wink-wink" way.
College more and more becoming a d-league.
Sooner or later the players will have to be paid.

Not sure how much may have changed but interesting article from last year on some of the problems:

NCAA fifth-year transfer rule needs to be fixed, quickly, say coaches

Wait, when was college basketball about academics? 1950?

 

[CaptainJ]

You might like it if you were a fifth year player with skills who wants to play in a real basketball program. Playing for Syracuse, on tv, in the dome, in the ACC, is a dream for a lot of young men. Nebraska and Colorado just don't have the right sizzle.

You may be right, but in my experience they both have nicer people, part of which can be evidenced here.

I appreciate your logic and it makes sense, but also from experience I'm taking all of it with a grain of salt or 2 until I hear something more concrete. I dont have to think back further than Thomas Bryant last year for logic that blew the minds of many on here. Just my own defense mechanisms, but I dont think I'm alone and dont want to see others suffer either.

 

[CaptainJ]

The idea of recruiting another school's player is distasteful and the rule they set up about having a course they don't offer at the old school is nothing more than a bogus loophole. But...

How different is it than signing Bowling Green's football coach because he wanted to move to a better situation? And if we make grad students sit out a year when they transfer, will they still be grad students? So i guess it makes a certain amount of sense.

I enjoy your posts Lt Data. It's enjoyable on occasion to see someone who isn't busy playing grabass on here, and who asks tough questions. I kind of wish the Iggys honored more than just guessing numbers, like the contributions you and others make with your critical thinking(which at times is at a lack here).

PS to the anonymous snipers, this is on topic, agreeing with the spirit of SWC's rhetorical question. A plea from my post based on your actions all day: "please dont **ase me bro!"

(I cant decide whether to laugh or be appalled at this broad's disregard for civil liberties and rule of law, it's almost like how some cower on here)

 

[Hoo's That]

One thing to keep in mind in the discussion, the Ivies and the Patriot League do not allow 5th year players, even if you lose a year for injury.

I think it's a 2-way street. If a player thinks he's going to get reasonable PT, he's not going to go through the PITA to transfer. Most coaches wouldn't have people red-shirt if they didn't think they'd be using them in their 4th year of playing. Situations change. I have no problems with transfers since the player has to have his degree in hand to be eligible to do it.

 

[realorange]

I'm a little unsure, but I believe JB is on record as saying he doesn't like the rule.

 

[SWC75]

I'm a little unsure, but I believe JB is on record as saying he doesn't like the rule.

And the last new rule JB liked was...

 

[SWC75]

One thing to keep in mind in the discussion, the Ivies and the Patriot League do not allow 5th year players, even if you lose a year for injury.

I think it's a 2-way street. If a player thinks he's going to get reasonable PT, he's not going to go through the PITA to transfer. Most coaches wouldn't have people red-shirt if they didn't think they'd be using them in their 4th year of playing. Situations change. I have no problems with transfers since the player has to have his degree in hand to be eligible to do it.

White was going to get reasonable PT at Nebraska.

 

[721Comstock]

And the last new rule JB liked was...

He seems to like the shorter shot clock.

 

[chugg21]

Hypocrite coaches should have no more buyout clauses in their contracts and have to stay the entire duration of their contract if they want to cry about this.

 

[Jack Hall]

I'm a little unsure, but I believe JB is on record as saying he doesn't like the rule.

I know excuses are like aholes, but JB has been put into a very unusual situation. He is being asked to retire soon, he had Grant, Ennis, Mal all leave earlier than the staff expected and there were ncaa sanctions on schollies. And its safe to say he BADLY wants a second title before hes done. Did JB bring this on himself? I have no clue but it is a tough situation. I am not particularly fond of 5th year transfers. I thought it was very odd last year looking at ucons and louisville s lineups. But not sure what else JB and staff can do when looking at where the roster was after Mal declared...

 

[RF2044]

Well, in spirit it's not really free agency. The contract is for the student athlete to attend a school for four years to get a degree and if he plays a sport he doesn't pay tuition or expenses. For fifth year transfers both sides have fulfilled their obligations. Now if the student wants to go on to graduate school and his current school does not offer the program of study he is interested in he can change schools and, if he has not exhausted his four years of eligibility, play a sport and attend for free. And active recruiting and coercion can only occur once a player announces and is granted his release. Yes, again in theory and spirit of the law.

Nothing wrong with that and truly supports the interest of the student athlete. I think Greg Paulus was the perfect example.

It gets a bit murkier when the program of study restriction is not policed and the driving factor is the athlete side of the equation. Not saying that a kid who has successfully completed a degree program should not have an opportunity to spend his last year on a bigger stage (Gillen) or at a program better suited to his skill level (Chino) but in this environment I am a bit more ambivalent.

As with many well-intentioned rules that get exploited, the spirit does not match the reality.

I'm generally in favor of choice as much as possible. And I agree with you that the spirit / intent of this rule was designed to benefit the players. But in actual practice, it has emerged as a feeder mechanism for P5 schools gobbling up prospects from lesser programs. Many [most? all?] coaching staffs have lists of players who are fifth year grad transfer candidates--it just seems unseemly to me to actively recruit players on other teams' rosters.

 

[Jack Hall]

As with many well-intentioned rules that get exploited, the spirit does not match the reality.

I'm generally in favor of choice as much as possible. And I agree with you that the spirit / intent of this rule was designed to benefit the players. But in actual practice, it has emerged as a feeder mechanism for P5 schools gobbling up prospects from lesser programs. Many [most? all?] coaching staffs have lists of players who are fifth year grad transfer candidates--it just seems unseemly to me to actively recruit players on other teams' rosters.

But is it ARE on other teams rosters or WERE on other teams rosters? I guess that is the ?