I Think I Finally Understand What the Problem is

[OrangeinBoston]

The hand-wringers on this board have never been approached by another company/organization about a possible promotion. So, they have no clue how it works.

Here is how it works:

1. They approach you saying they would like to speak with you about a position which constitutes a promotion.
2. In a high-profile situation like this, you inform your boss (Dr. Gross in this case).
3. You talk with them.
4. You may get an offer, or you may not.
5. If you get an offer, there may be negociations about the terms.
6. If you conclude that it is in your best interest, you take it. If not, you go back to your old job.
7. Meanwhile, if he really wants you to stay (and clearly Dr. Gross would very much like Marrone to stay), your boss goes to his boss to restructure your deal. (By the way, this is very much what Dr. Gross needs to push his agenda forward to get new facilities, more $$, etc.)
8. Life goes back to normal.

There is NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY GOING ON HERE.

 

[Orangetradition44]

I have been offered. Multiple times. And I've seen people fired for letting it be known. Many employers don't appreciate being strong-armed. Many employers would prefer to start their search than to wait patiently for you to find a new job. Happens a lot. Life goes back to normal.

The hand-wringers on this board have never been approached by another company/organization about a possible promotion. So, they have no clue how it works.

Here is how it works:

1. They approach you saying they would like to speak with you about a position which constitutes a promotion.
2. In a high-profile situation like this, you inform your boss (Dr. Gross in this case).
3. You talk with them.
4. You may get an offer, or you may not.
5. If you get an offer, there may be negociations about the terms.
6. If you conclude that it is in your best interest, you take it. If not, you go back to your old job.
7. Meanwhile, if he really wants you to stay (and clearly Dr. Gross would very much like Marrone to stay), your boss goes to his boss to restructure your deal. (By the way, this is very much what Dr. Gross needs to push his agenda forward to get new facilities, more $$, etc.)
8. Life goes back to normal.

There is NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY GOING ON HERE.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I have been offered. Multiple times. And I've seen people fired for letting it be known. Many employers don't appreciate being strong-armed. Many employers would prefer to start their search than to wait patiently for you to find a new job. Happens a lot. Life goes back to normal.

Not here.

 

[GoSU96]

I have been offered. Multiple times. And I've seen people fired for letting it be known. Many employers don't appreciate being strong-armed. Many employers would prefer to start their search than to wait patiently for you to find a new job. Happens a lot. Life goes back to normal.

Any decent employer doesn't get in the way of people advancing their careers and in fact welcome it because it helps attract and motivate talent. Companies that operate the way you describe end up with Frank Spaziani as HC.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Any decent employer doesn't get in the way of people advancing their careers and in fact welcome it because it helps attract and motivate talent. Companies that operate the way you describe end up with Frank Spaziani as HC.

BC's stupid AD single-handedly destroyed their Bball and Fball programs by making poor decisions regarding retaining their coaches. What does BC have left? Hockey. Sure, popular here in Boston, but nobody else gives a damn.

 

[Orangetradition44]

Here's the problem from my perspective.

One of the top pros for Marrone's hiring was that he wanted to be here.

That model has always worked at Syracuse.

Doug proclaimed the job his dream. He didn't have to.

Doug proclaimed that everything he has done in his career was done with the intent for it to eventually lead him to Syracuse. He didn't have to.

Four years in, he discovers its going to be harder than he thought.

So he interviews with another college during the season.

Then his agents let it be known that he wants out at SU once the nfl interviewing begins.

He's 25-25 at Syracuse.

There's a good chance that leaving now could seriously set the program back.

Those who say staying the course is the ONLY option keep alluding to Marrone coming back and getting a new contract and then some type of happily ever after scenario.

But I disagree. I think in Doug's heart, he's given up on SU and that IF he comes back it will ONLY be because he didn't get a job. He will only be biding his time.

Those who say staying the course is the ONLY option believe its a compliment to SU that our coach gets offered by NFL teams.

I disagree. If Marrone built something at SU and then started getting attention and offers from the NFL (much like Mac), I would agree. He's 25-25. He hasn't built anything. He pulled us out of a dark hole and brushed us off. He declared to the world that this was his dream job, that he would return Syracuse to prominence and win championships plural here. But he interviews for college openings? And sends out his agents to pimp him to the NFL. To me, it sends the message that even Doug Marrone believes SU can never be competitive, that its a losing battle not worth fighting. That will affect current players, coaches and recruits alike for years to come, whether he stays or leaves.

Just my opinion. And it's based on the facts I have available to me. I realize I don't have all the facts. I realize I'm in the minority. I realize Go thinks I'm an idiot. But those claiming that those suggesting that waiting patiently isn't the only option probably aren't very good fans... Need to get a life. I'm a lifelong fan, a booster, a season ticket holder, an away game traveller and a two time traveller to the pinstripe. I'd put my fandom up against anyone's on this boards.

 

[Orangetradition44]

I agree. I'm not talking about 'getting in the way'. Getting in the way is giving erroneous feedback to the future employer or making the exit painful. I think TGD should praise Doug the way he deserves and I think TGD should ask Doug what he needs to stay and try to provide it. I also hope he's currently working to replace him and pulls the trigger if need be.

Any decent employer doesn't get in the way of people advancing their careers and in fact welcome it because it helps attract and motivate talent. Companies that operate the way you describe end up with Frank Spaziani as HC.

 

[kcsu]

I have hired many individuals in my life. I have had top managers come to me with other opportunities. I have always felt that it was my role and responsibility to create a company that people didnt want to leave and for the most part i have. When someone in my organization ask for permission to interview for another job it is always encouraged as long as the terms of their employment agreement are adhered to. Post interview if they take another job we always do an exit interview. For upper management i may sit in. Post interview we also do a retained interview. These interviews are extremely valuable in the knowledge gained. Do we need to change and if so what. Is there a potential problem in a business unit leader? Are there rumors that are making people look? or is it simply that our employee wants something new. If the later is the case and they have the ability we will try to find a role for them in another business unit. The key to all of this is open communication and to always remember that it is our job to create an environment that people want to work in. In Dougs case i believe that he likes to coach. I believe that he enjoys the other coaches on the staff. I know that he loves the players as he has said so. If we accept that as fact than it has to be his place of employment that is the problem or it is simply the fact that Doug wants to do what he does which is coach at the highest level. The third factor would be personal. Could there be issues at home that are causing him to change? For me my biggest life change and one that looking back was a huge mistake was because of a personal situation. My wife was very sick and i left a great situation because i felt that change would help. In fact it didnt help at all it hurt and it did nothing to save her life which looking back i should have known. So what is it with Doug? I believe that it isnt one single thing. I believe that it is a combination of Doug wanting to be a head coach in the NFL and the fact that he doesnt feel good about the long term prospects of the company he is working for. I also think that Doug behind the tough outer shell is a very sensitive and to a certain extent insecure individual. The fact that Nancy is leaving, and the domino effect of that or simply Doug not liking things that are not well defined, the lack of order could have much to do with this. In the end i hope that he gets what he truly wants and if he leaves or stays does so for a solid reason and doesnt look back like i did once in my life with regret.

 

[texascpa]

The hand-wringers on this board have never been approached by another company/organization about a possible promotion. So, they have no clue how it works.

Here is how it works:

1. They approach you saying they would like to speak with you about a position which constitutes a promotion.
2. In a high-profile situation like this, you inform your boss (Dr. Gross in this case).
3. You talk with them.
4. You may get an offer, or you may not.
5. If you get an offer, there may be negociations about the terms.
6. If you conclude that it is in your best interest, you take it. If not, you go back to your old job.
7. Meanwhile, if he really wants you to stay (and clearly Dr. Gross would very much like Marrone to stay), your boss goes to his boss to restructure your deal. (By the way, this is very much what Dr. Gross needs to push his agenda forward to get new facilities, more $$, etc.)
8. Life goes back to normal.

There is NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY GOING ON HERE.

Sounds like any other office.

 

[texascpa]

Any decent employer doesn't get in the way of people advancing their careers and in fact welcome it because it helps attract and motivate talent. Companies that operate the way you describe end up with Frank Spaziani as HC.

I take pride that over 10 years I've had many of my staff promoted, take other positions in other departments and better positions at other companies. If they're not advancing, I'm not doing my job.

 

[GoSU96]

Here's the problem from my perspective.

One of the top pros for Marrone's hiring was that he wanted to be here.

That model has always worked at Syracuse.

Doug proclaimed the job his dream. He didn't have to.

Doug proclaimed that everything he has done in his career was done with the intent for it to eventually lead him to Syracuse. He didn't have to.

Four years in, he discovers its going to be harder than he thought.

So he interviews with another college during the season.

Then his agents let it be known that he wants out at SU once the nfl interviewing begins.

He's 25-25 at Syracuse.

There's a good chance that leaving now could seriously set the program back.

Those who say staying the course is the ONLY option keep alluding to Marrone coming back and getting a new contract and then some type of happily ever after scenario.

But I disagree. I think in Doug's heart, he's given up on SU and that IF he comes back it will ONLY be because he didn't get a job. He will only be biding his time.

Those who say staying the course is the ONLY option believe its a compliment to SU that our coach gets offered by NFL teams.

I disagree. If Marrone built something at SU and then started getting attention and offers from the NFL (much like Mac), I would agree. He's 25-25. He hasn't built anything. He pulled us out of a dark hole and brushed us off. He declared to the world that this was his dream job, that he would return Syracuse to prominence and win championships plural here. But he interviews for college openings? And sends out his agents to pimp him to the NFL. To me, it sends the message that even Doug Marrone believes SU can never be competitive, that its a losing battle not worth fighting. That will affect current players, coaches and recruits alike for years to come, whether he stays or leaves.

Just my opinion. And it's based on the facts I have available to me. I realize I don't have all the facts. I realize I'm in the minority. I realize Go thinks I'm an idiot. But those claiming that those suggesting that waiting patiently isn't the only option probably aren't very good fans... Need to get a life. I'm a lifelong fan, a booster, a season ticket holder, an away game traveller and a two time traveller to the pinstripe. I'd put my fandom up against anyone's on this boards.

The statements that he made at the time he was hired, and looking to move on now are not mutually exclusive. And where do you get he's looking to leave because the job is to hard? Not competitive, what was this year?

If his leaving would set back the program, why make that a certainty if you don't have to. If Marrone is the best option to continue the obvious progress isn't it in the SU's interest to keep that option open. As for he'll come back only if he doesn't get another job, so what? He's due another contract anyway, you structure it so that there will be a premimum on his leaving early, and the guy is not going to half ass it in whatever time he is here.

If he's looking to leave it's not because he doesn't think HE can't get the job done here. But if he's not getting the support and resources he needs, why should he be held hostage to that?

BTW, there are plenty of idiots on this board, I certaintly don't think you're one of them.

 

[Stevenson]

That's not how Wall Street works

 

[rocklloyd]

I take pride that over 10 years I've had many of my staff promoted, take other positions in other departments and better positions at other companies. If they're not advancing, I'm not doing my job.

Agree, in fact I've started doing what I call 'stay interviews' where we have regular discussions outside of performance reviews in attempt to foster better, more open communication. All too often the company would find out something during an exit interview (too late). The stay interview helps me course during employees tenure

 

[orange79]

Here's the problem from my perspective.

One of the top pros for Marrone's hiring was that he wanted to be here.

That model has always worked at Syracuse. This doesn't mean it is the only model out there that can work.

Doug proclaimed the job his dream. He didn't have to. Have you ever said something that, after a period of time, did not adequately reflect your current point of view?

Doug proclaimed that everything he has done in his career was done with the intent for it to eventually lead him to Syracuse. He didn't have to. Did he promise you he would never leave Syracuse, once he got there?

Four years in, he discovers its going to be harder than he thought.

So he interviews with another college during the season.

Then his agents let it be known that he wants out at SU once the nfl interviewing begins.

He's 25-25 at Syracuse.

There's a good chance that leaving now could seriously set the program back.

Those who say staying the course is the ONLY option keep alluding to Marrone coming back and getting a new contract and then some type of happily ever after scenario.

But I disagree. I think in Doug's heart, he's given up on SU and that IF he comes back it will ONLY be because he didn't get a job. He will only be biding his time. There is no way you could possibly know this, unless you are connected with him as a friend or relative. Are you?

Those who say staying the course is the ONLY option believe its a compliment to SU that our coach gets offered by NFL teams.

I disagree. If Marrone built something at SU and then started getting attention and offers from the NFL (much like Mac), I would agree. He's 25-25. He hasn't built anything. Except a ladder out of the chasm created by AD indifference and a coaching staff that couldn't coach its way out of a paper bag. Other than that, you're right. He hasn't built anything.

He pulled us out of a dark hole and brushed us off. He declared to the world that this was his dream job, that he would return Syracuse to prominence and win championships plural here. But he interviews for college openings? And sends out his agents to pimp him to the NFL. To me, it sends the message that even Doug Marrone believes SU can never be competitive, that its a losing battle not worth fighting. That will affect current players, coaches and recruits alike for years to come, whether he stays or leaves. Your leaps from HCDM taking interviews to "Doug Marrone believes SU can never be competitive" just don't make any sense. Pretty pessimistic view, IMO.

Just my opinion. And it's based on the facts I have available to me. I realize I don't have all the facts. I realize I'm in the minority. I realize Go thinks I'm an idiot. But those claiming that those suggesting that waiting patiently isn't the only option probably aren't very good fans... Need to get a life. I'm a lifelong fan, a booster, a season ticket holder, an away game traveller and a two time traveller to the pinstripe. I'd put my fandom up against anyone's on this boards.

 

[Don]

the economies of scale and the impacts that you all are talking about are not even close to what is going on here. I think he should interview as well and if he goes well then good luck to him he has a done a great job here, and if he stays I am sure he will continue to do a good job here, but please please please stop calling this a normal situation I would bet no one here or no one that works in an organization carries enough stroke to impact millions of dollars in an organization.

This man makes a million a year plus he stands to make multimillions if he goes or stays. His presence and success means millions for this school or a pro team.

His future affects the future of this school or a pro organization. His success of failure could bring a school or pro organization to its knees or make them millions.

This is not normal hiring process or situation under any circumstances so please dont say this is routine. The premise of interviewing and job search may be normal, the affects on the school and or a pro organization is not.

I wish him well and hope he stays but the people who are saying this situation could affect the school negatively in either the short term or long term are correct. The longer it drags on the worse it gets the recruiting process is already dog eat dog they don't need more ammo. if he stays and because of the flux of the chancellor position kicking the can to the next chancellor he does not get a large raise or extention and some more facilities improvements this happens again quickly.

 

[orangenauburn]

Agree, in fact I've started doing what I call 'stay interviews' where we have regular discussions outside of performance reviews in attempt to foster better, more open communication. All too often the company would find out something during an exit interview (too late). The stay interview helps me course during employees tenure

that's called managing.

If you do not talk or show interest in your employees, why should they care about what you are trying to accomplish?

 

[Orangetradition44]

" And where do you get he's looking to leave because the job is to hard?"

Numerous reports that say disgruntled fans and lack of administrative support have soured him.

"Not competitive, what was this year?"

I should have said consistently. Based on numerous reports that Doug feels we are behind in facilities and not going to catch up and this makes being successful near impossible (in Doug's mind).

"If his leaving would set back the program, why make that a certainty if you don't have to."

Because I believe (based on info I have at the time), that him leaving IS a certainty. So the longer we wait for that certainty, the more damage done.

" If Marrone is the best option to continue the obvious progress isn't it in the SU's interest to keep that option open."

Absolutely. I think we should pay him and his staff more and commit to facilities. But if we can't quickly come to a deal, I say move on.

"As for he'll come back only if he doesn't get another job, so what? "

It speaks to his intent. He wants to leave no matter what. He's determined. And he now knows this is certainly NOT his dream job.

"But if he's not getting the support and resources he needs, why should he be held hostage to that."

I agree he should be getting the support he needs, and if he's not, he should make it be known. And if this is all a power play to push the administrations hand, I'm actually fine with it. But I don't think it is. I think he truly believes the situation is hopeless, does not want to be held hostage, and believes his only option is leaving (based on the info available to me).

"BTW, there are plenty of idiots on this board, I certaintly don't think you're one of them."

Yeah, I know. You think my stance is idiotic. I just believe we should be working all contingencies and be ready to move on if the time is right.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Marrone's biggest problem is that he's afraid to fail. Right when the expectations begin to grow, he leaves. He's done it everywhere he's been. He's sensitive and he feels comortable building something, but not confident enough to take it to the next level. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but he is what he is. What bothers me is that everyone is crapping their pants about him leaving and how it's going to hurt recruiting. His recruiting class is rated #72 in the country. That is after four years. He can't close or finish what he started. It is who he is.

 

[GoSU96]

" And where do you get he's looking to leave because the job is to hard?"

Numerous reports that say disgruntled fans and lack of administrative support have soured him.

"Not competitive, what was this year?"

I should have said consistently. Based on numerous reports that Doug feels we are behind in facilities and not going to catch up and this makes being successful near impossible (in Doug's mind).

"If his leaving would set back the program, why make that a certainty if you don't have to."

Because I believe (based on info I have at the time), that him leaving IS a certainty. So the longer we wait for that certainty, the more damage done.

" If Marrone is the best option to continue the obvious progress isn't it in the SU's interest to keep that option open."

Absolutely. I think we should pay him and his staff more and commit to facilities. But if we can't quickly come to a deal, I say move on.

"As for he'll come back only if he doesn't get another job, so what? "

It speaks to his intent. He wants to leave no matter what. He's determined. And he now knows this is certainly NOT his dream job.

"But if he's not getting the support and resources he needs, why should he be held hostage to that."

I agree he should be getting the support he needs, and if he's not, he should make it be known. And if this is all a power play to push the administrations hand, I'm actually fine with it. But I don't think it is. I think he truly believes the situation is hopeless, does not want to be held hostage, and believes his only option is leaving (based on the info available to me).

"BTW, there are plenty of idiots on this board, I certaintly don't think you're one of them."

Yeah, I know. You think my stance is idiotic. I just believe we should be working all contingencies and be ready to move on if the time is right.

Of course they are working contingencies.

I do know he's unhappy with the job environment, but the fact that Gross hasn't moved out already tells me that Marrone is coming back if the NFL doesn't work out and the Gross wants him back, and that they are in communication. If he does come back if there are changes made to fix what is in their power to fix and improve both the environment and increase investment in the program, there's nothing to say he won't be here another 3-5 years.

 

[GoSU96]

Marrone's biggest problem is that he's afraid to fail. Right when the expectations begin to grow, he leaves. He's done it everywhere he's been. He's sensitive and he feels comortable building something, but not confident enough to take it to the next level. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but he is what he is. What bothers me is that everyone is crapping their pants about him leaving and how it's going to hurt recruiting. His recruiting class is rated #72 in the country. That is after four years. He can't close or finish what he started. It is who he is.

Wow, you know all this how?

 

[chakka3421]

Sorry, I simply don't get the point of this thread at all. What's the point you are trying to make beyond the obvious?

 

[hoopsupstate]

Noone knows anything on this board. It's a place to give opinions. It's just my perception of Marrone. This is also a great place to vent frustrations. I try not to take anyone on this board too seriously.

 

[Crusty]

That is not the way it works everywhere. In some industries the company's assets go down the elevator every night - Wall Street in the prime example. Certain employees (bankers, traders and sales people) bring their own book of business . When they walk out the door the business goes with them. They become commodities and, in the final analysis, trade to the highest bidder. You can't stop it with all the management skills in the world.

Pros never call their competitors - they need plausible deniability. They are all known to head hunters and it only takes one word to get your name out there. Head hunters or, in sports, agents do the first contact.

Here's the deal

1. You can only put the gun to the firm's head once. After the first time, they will prepare a contingency plan and will have people in the bull pen. Senior management will all of sudden start showing up at events where your clients are and will attempt to build relationships above you. You will all of a sudden have an assistant to "help you". They will start making sure that if you leave they can retain as much of the relationship as possible. We need to have a succession plan in place now. I would be happy with either Hackett or Shafer.
2. However, in this situation, I do not know how it is possible to come to any other conclusion than Doug wants out. He is simply being marketed too heavily and taking every interview he can. If this were a leverage play one interview would suffice.
3. Some things cannot be undone. This is one of them. I, for one, was among those that felt we had to have more patience with Doug because he was committed to SU and we needed to return that commitment. There was a feeling of a special bond to an alum that told us this was his dream job. That is gone now and it will never be the same. It can be good but never like it was.
4. This has to come to an end soon. This kind of time delay would never be tolerated on the street because of the damage it does to morale and the fact that the sharks will start circling your other assets - coaches, recruits etc.

I am convinced that Doug is either gone or will be gone. Either way, we need to get our heads out of the sand and prepare for that eventuality.

I will be forever grateful to Doug for returning the program to respectability and will root for him at whatever NFL team to which he goes.

The program is healthy and will survive but we need to get this behind us soon.

 

[TheCusian]

If it's about leverage, he is using every drop. If it's about wanting to be at the pinnacle of your profession he is doing right by him and his family by interviewing. Those are your answers until we here something in a presser.

 

[Cuse2010]

If it is leverage it is now a game of chicken, and he likely expected them to give him something...to me says nore about lack of comitment by University, they likely could have ended sooner, but chose not to their lack of action may be making him realize he will never be able to complete the job because he will never be given the tools to do it