I wish JJ a lot of luck with his hamstring | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

I wish JJ a lot of luck with his hamstring

My problem with JJ is you can’t play him with Anthony. We are a defensive first team so far this year if that is our goal and what Red is going to hang his hat on then JJ and Anthony can’t be on the floor together, our wing defense will take a massive drop off from what it is now if you take Kingz out.
 
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going to be interesting, Kiran deserves to stay in the starting 5, he's the team's leading scorer, Autry probably will defer to the senior veteran and have Kiyan come off the bench
 
phil77 said:
My problem with JJ is you can’t play him with Anthony. We are a defensive first team so far this year if that is our goal and what Red is going to hang his hat on then JJ and Anthony can’t be on the floor together, our wing defense will take a massive drop off from what it is now if you take Kingz out.
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JJ’s defense is pretty equal to George. He got best off the dribble several times yesterday.
 
hoopsupstate said:
JJ’s defense is pretty equal to George. He got best off the dribble several times yesterday.
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Pretty much anyone outside of a robot is going to get beat a few times if you are playing pressure mtm. The goal being to speed teams up and allow the help rotations to force a turnover or having to attack a shot blocker.

The problem with JJs defense or at least what I’m going to be watching is on the switches. Kiyan has done very well with switching back and forth off screens and fronting in the post as a big 2G. Can JJ handle the switching action effectively and can he properly front his man if switched onto a big? To me that will be a key factor when looking at playing time.

Add onto that is how physical can JJ be defending. Hes added good weight and is obviously extremely fast going north and south. He has not shown he is comfortable using his body as a defender as much as his speed and that is another factor here.
 
hoopsupstate said:
JJ’s defense is pretty equal to George. He got best off the dribble several times yesterday.
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It happens. That said George has much better defensive metrics for his career than JJ. It’s what drives people crazy here. A couple plays does not outweigh long term performance trends. JJ needs to play at least average defense when he gets back to stay on the court. He by far projects to be our worst defensive player.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
It happens. That said George has much better defensive metrics for his career than JJ. It’s what drives people crazy here. A couple plays does not outweigh long term performance trends. JJ needs to play at least average defense when he gets back to stay on the court. He by far projects to be our worst defensive player.
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George has an average rating of 111.75 through his first two seasons. JJ has 113.1 through three. Much better??
 
I think it is likely that George will be better than JJ on defense, but don't think we have any guarantee based on the stats that it will be better by a whole lot. We better hope he plays much closer to his last season than his freshman year, where he got a worse rating than any year of JJs career. Again, that will likely happen, based on his improvement at a sophomore, but realistically the gap between his defense and JJs will likely not be massive.
 
DoctahLexus said:
I think it is likely that George will be better than JJ on defense, but don't think we have any guarantee based on the stats that it will be better by a whole lot. We better hope he plays much closer to his last season than his freshman year, where he got a worse rating than any year of JJs career. Again, that will likely happen, based on his improvement at a sophomore, but realistically the gap between his defense and JJs will likely not be massive.
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Personally this discussion is why I prefer looking at the analysis Evan Miya does because you can see the impacts guys have on their teams vs just a generic rating. JJ had a negative defensive BPR at Notre Dame, again in his first year here and then just a 0.50 last year.

George was a slight negative as a freshman at GT defensively in BPR then jumped to 1.14 last year and through 3 games ( very early but the tape matches the numbers) a 2.33 so far for us this year. His improvements are very obvious and impactful and that is yet to be seen from JJ defensively.

In the two exhibitions JJ got caught mishandling switches and being beaten a few too many times off the bounce along with making some really good defensive plays. It was a flashback for me to what we used to see from Judah. That said if we can get a Judah level defensive contribution from JJ I’ll take that to the bank.
 
Did George have a few lapses on defense in the first half against Drexel, yes he did. It was cleaned up very quickly. Overall, he's exceeded what I expected he would do on defense so far. He has 8 steals through 3 games. The Naithan George at Georgia Tech had a tendency to really play his best in the big games, so lets see if we see a similar jump here with big games on the horizon. For the most part, he's doing what he needs to in the non power conference games.
 
Orangezoo said:
Personally this discussion is why I prefer looking at the analysis Evan Miya does because you can see the impacts guys have on their teams vs just a generic rating. JJ had a negative defensive BPR at Notre Dame, again in his first year here and then just a 0.50 last year.

George was a slight negative as a freshman at GT defensively in BPR then jumped to 1.14 last year and through 3 games ( very early but the tape matches the numbers) a 2.33 so far for us this year. His improvements are very obvious and impactful and that is yet to be seen from JJ defensively.

In the two exhibitions JJ got caught mishandling switches and being beaten a few too many times off the bounce along with making some really good defensive plays. It was a flashback for me to what we used to see from Judah. That said if we can get a Judah level defensive contribution from JJ I’ll take that to the bank.
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We have the worst strength of schedule through 3 games of anyone, so it really does not feel right to include anything related to his stats so far this year, especially since JJ did not play in those games. We need to see him against a more serious offensive threat.

And if we are just going by the Evan Miya ratings last year, how different is .5 vs 1.14? I am actually not sure since I am less familiar with that. Is that a significant gap in that rating system or not much?

This is not me defending JJs defense, I just think the jury is out on George being significantly better.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
It happens. That said George has much better defensive metrics for his career than JJ. It’s what drives people crazy here. A couple plays does not outweigh long term performance trends. JJ needs to play at least average defense when he gets back to stay on the court. He by far projects to be our worst defensive player.
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JJ is not, nor ever will be, a good defender. Between the D and his O, he gets air coverage from some fans like he is JB's nephew.

JJ has lived off his inefficient PPG numbers to be given a much higher standing than he deserves.
 
MikeSU02 said:
JJ is not, nor ever will be, a good defender. Between the D and his O, he gets air coverage from some fans like he is JB's nephew.

JJ has lived off his inefficient PPG numbers to be given a much higher standing than he deserves.
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Given the make up of the team he is an ideal candidate to be boeheimed in terms of minutes while being a starter. Defense and efficiency out of the gate or we look to the bench quickly and then plug him back in at the 9/10 minute mark and play the same game.
 
MikeSU02 said:
JJ is not, nor ever will be, a good defender. Between the D and his O, he gets air coverage from some fans like he is JB's nephew.

JJ has lived off his inefficient PPG numbers to be given a much higher standing than he deserves.
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But the detractors do not acknowledge the position we have put him in these last two years. I am not a fan of JJ's game, especially his defense, but the position he was in last year was terrible, given all the deficiencies on our roster. He was also dealing with an injury himself. I am curious to see how he performs on a roster that actually has significant depth and a variety of weapons at each spot on the floor, where he is not required to play 35 mins a game. We have never seen him on a cuse team like this one. The last two years we have demanded a boatload from him due to lack of depth and impact players. I am willing to give him a chance playing closer to 20 high energy minutes on a team with depth. His numbers could improve in a more limited role.
 
DoctahLexus said:
But the detractors do not acknowledge the position we have put him in these last two years. I am not a fan of JJ's game, especially his defense, but the position he was in last year was terrible, given all the deficiencies on our roster. He was also dealing with an injury himself. I am curious to see how he performs on a roster that actually has significant depth and a variety of weapons at each spot on the floor, where he is not required to play 35 mins a game. We have never seen him on a cuse team like this one. The last two years we have demanded a boatload from him due to lack of depth and impact players. I am willing to give him a chance playing closer to 20 high energy minutes on a team with depth. His numbers could improve in a more limited role.
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I'm not giving him any more grace. He scored 17 ppg on 16 shots last year. He keeps getting hurt. He's been inefficient his whole career and can't play D. He has started 83 games to be able to show a change. <43% FG, <30% 3PT on volume shooting. He's a gift to the other team.

We have a budding star in Kiyan, a real PG in George and a guy that has actually hit threes over 40% in Kingz. And guys that play defense as well.

No more excuses for JJ.
 
MikeSU02 said:
I'm not giving him any more grace. He scored 17 ppg on 16 shots last year. He keeps getting hurt. He's been inefficient his whole career and can't play D. He has started 83 games to be able to show a change. <43% FG, <30% 3PT on volume shooting. He's a gift to the other team.

We have a budding star in Kiyan, a real PG in George and a guy that has actually hit threes over 40% in Kingz. And guys that play defense as well.

No more excuses for JJ.
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I realize it’s a JJ thread but if Kiyan was anyone else except Melos kid and we weren’t trying to put too much on his back as fans I have to think the discussion may be even more pro Kiyan in terms of getting him in the floor hands down as much as possible. Kind of ironic in that regard…
 
DoctahLexus said:
But the detractors do not acknowledge the position we have put him in these last two years. I am not a fan of JJ's game, especially his defense, but the position he was in last year was terrible, given all the deficiencies on our roster. He was also dealing with an injury himself. I am curious to see how he performs on a roster that actually has significant depth and a variety of weapons at each spot on the floor, where he is not required to play 35 mins a game. We have never seen him on a cuse team like this one. The last two years we have demanded a boatload from him due to lack of depth and impact players. I am willing to give him a chance playing closer to 20 high energy minutes on a team with depth. His numbers could improve in a more limited role.
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JJ has been on 3 bad teams. Got it.
But we can't put any of that blame ON him?
Like his terrible 3 point shooting (under 30% for his career), average (last year) or below-average PER throughout his career, and so on?

His assist:turnover ratio is 1.9 to 1.8. That is AWFUL.
(3:1 is good)
 
MikeSU02 said:
I'm not giving him any more grace. He scored 17 ppg on 16 shots last year. He keeps getting hurt. He's been inefficient his whole career and can't play D. He has started 83 games to be able to show a change. <43% FG, <30% 3PT on volume shooting. He's a gift to the other team.

We have a budding star in Kiyan, a real PG in George and a guy that has actually hit threes over 40% in Kingz. And guys that play defense as well.

No more excuses for JJ.
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And George scored 12 ppg on 11.

George eFG% last year was 47.2%. JJs was 45.3%.

FG% for George last year was 39.3%. JJs was 40.7%.

JJ had the horrendous 3pt percentage last year at 26.8%, but George's was just ok at 33.9%, not too far off from JJs 32.4% as a sophomore.

I think we need to see more from George against quality opponents. He has to prove he is capable of taking a step up in efficiency himself, before I act like he is miles ahead of JJ. He is earlier in his career and I am hoping he will keep improving. Both could improve with a more complete roster.
 
Orangezoo said:
I realize it’s a JJ thread but if Kiyan was anyone else except Melos kid and we weren’t trying to put too much on his back as fans I have to think the discussion may be even more pro Kiyan in terms of getting him in the floor hands down as much as possible. Kind of ironic in that regard…
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Without question, your assertion is 100% true.
 
DoctahLexus said:
And George scored 12 ppg on 11.

George eFG% last year was 47.2%. JJs was 45.3%.

FG% for George last year was 39.3%. JJs was 40.7%.

JJ had the horrendous 3pt percentage last year at 26.8%, but George's was just ok at 33.9%, not too far off from JJs 32.4% as a sophomore.

I think we need to see more from George against quality opponents. He has to prove he is capable of taking a step up in efficiency himself, before I act like he is miles ahead of JJ. He is earlier in his career and I am hoping he will keep improving. Both could improve with a more complete roster.
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Nate George came here to be a lead guard. JJ is here to score. I give George more grace on inefficiency to rise up the rest of the team. JJ does not and cannot do that.

Fair argument, I don't think it's fully applicable in terms of what the goals are for each player. JJ does not make the players around him better. He cannot dribble. Also, George is a better defender. Also, his start this year has been fantastic from an efficiency standpoint.

So one guy is healthy, on the floor, our lead guard and can play D and is being efficient. One guy is hurt again for like the fifth time in his career.
 
atlanticuse said:
JJ has been on 3 bad teams. Got it.
But we can't put any of that blame ON him?
Like his terrible 3 point shooting (under 30% for his career), average (last year) or below-average PER throughout his career, and so on?

His assist:turnover ratio is 1.9 to 1.8. That is AWFUL.
(3:1 is good)
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LOL. JJ isn't a PG.
Also - 3:1 for a PG isn't "good" - it's elite.

For SG's or SF's, you're often lucky if they have a positive A/TO ratio at all.

Tyus Battle - career A/TO was 2.1 / 1.8.
Mali Richardson - 2.1 / 2.1
Waiters Island - 2.0 / 1.1 - Dion was a pretty solid playmaker/passer for a SG.
Buddy B - 2.2 / 1.4 - this is better than I woulda expected.
(it was Buddy's lack of rebounding that was kinda glaring given his minutes played)
CJ Fair - 0.8 / 1.4
Dirty South - 0.6 / 0.6.
Chris Bell (LOL) - 0.5 / 0.9. Dude is the quintessential black hole.
 

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