I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them. | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them.

Well yeah, excellence was a long shot when you limit your job search to 1 or 2 assistants with no head coaching experience. Both of whom had been present and contributed to the decline.
Oh? And it’s assured otherwise? Do you suffer from such tunnel vision that you believe your qualification of my statement to be true?
 
Oh? And it’s assured otherwise? Do you suffer from such tunnel vision that you believe your qualification of my statement to be true?

Excellence is never assured in sports, unless maybe you're talking about the 1990s Bulls or one of the early Dream Teams. Most likely Red or GMac were not going to be successful based on their resumes and the state of the program they were inheriting. What was almost assured was the things would have continued to decline under JB for as long as the school tolerated it.

It was like the rumor that JB wanted one more season to set things up for Red. It implied he could have been doing things differently. Like if he could really set up a magic season, why hadn't he been doing it?
 
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It would've been more appropriate had Andy Bernard gone to Colgate instead of Cornell, but the quote fits perfectly.

I'll be blunt. Syracuse is a has-been athletic program in football and basketball. I started really understanding sports in 1986 and graduated from SU in 2001. Local boy. I thought that was baseline for SU sports. Looking back, SU peaked in 1995-1996. Runner up in hoops, young McNabb beats Clemson 41-0 in a legit bowl game, and men's lacrosse was in the middle of one of the most dominant runs in any college sport. I thought it was the norm, it was really just a golden age.

I guess it made me an entitled fan. I look at the names on the jerseys and I expect SU to thrash BC in football, and for our walk-ons to be able to beat Colgate in basketball. I don't blame the kids at all. They are doing their best, but they just aren't the level of athletes we used to get. Can you imagine our best player from a basketball team in that era and transferring to another team and not starting?!?! The reality is that is our current level of talent. It is what it is. By the eye test, SU and Colgate looked evenly matched. It looked like a hard-fought matchup between conference peers.

I have some hope that football might be headed in the right direction. For hoops, instead of Andy Bernard, I'll quote Dalton from Road House, "It'll get worse before it gets better."
It really shouldn't have been that hard to know what the good times were

How many final fours does it take?
 
Excellence is never assured in sports, unless maybe you're talking about the 1990s Bulls or one of the early Dream Teams. Most likely Red or GMac were not going to be successful based on their resumes and the state of the program they were inheriting. What was almost assured was the things would have continued to decline under JB for as long as the school tolerated it.

It was like the rumor that JB wanted one more season to set things up for Red. It implied he could have been doing things differently. Like if he could really set up a magic season, why hadn't he been doing it?
Excellence is never assured, true. It was handed to us for many, many years by a guy who took the job after his predecessor moved up to TULANE. Imagine that! Leaving Syracuse for Tulane. It wasn’t the effective death of the Big East? It wasn’t the change to a southern centric conference? It wasn’t the advent of the portal? It was JB! That had become a conventional form of “wisdom” in this virtual barroom full of drunken louts with their boozy proclamations.
Georgetown after John Thompson. DePaul. So many examples. We were a second tier recruiting school who got top tier results. You know what? You CANNOT win big games playing zone! Impossible! Until it wasn’t. JB fell victim to his own success. That, and ingrates with short memories and high expectations.
 
Look, overall, I love JB. He was the right man at the right time and, as Seneca said, luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. JB was ready, and he took it by the horns and was the primary factor that Syracuse basketball became Syracuse basketball. But he wasn't the only factor. It isn't disrespectful to acknowledge the Dome helped, ESPN helped, the other coaches/teams in the Big East all came together at the right time.

But it is also true that the guy who handed us the excellence for many, many years as you say, stopped producing excellence. He seemed to double down on his worst impulses; trashing players in press conferences, using his bench like a penalty box, being a jerk to media (especially "small" ones), while becoming a prisoner of the 2-3 zone that he had put on the map.

It's okay to acknowledge both. But, you go totally off base in that last paragraph. A second tier recruiting school? Not sure, I agree with that but whatever. High expectations? Yes, guilty as charged. As a Syracuse fan I expect our program not to be irrelevant for most of a decade and trending downward even further. Is that unreasonable? If so, call me unreasonable.

Ingrates? He got paid MILLIONS of dollars to coach sports in one spot that has a low cost of living. He didn't have to drag his family all over the country from job to job. The school and community stood by and supported him through two NCAA violations. They named the court after him. He got to build a roster around his kids and coach them in P5 college basketball. If acknowledging the fact that he didn't walk on water and made some questionable decisions in his later years is ungrateful, so be it, call me an ingrate.
 
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Look, overall, I love JB. He was the right man at the right time and, as Seneca says, luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. JB was ready, and he took it by the horns and was the primary factor that Syracuse basketball became Syracuse basketball. But he wasn't the only factor. It isn't disrespectful to acknowledge the Dome helped, ESPN helped, the other coaches/teams in the Big East all came together at the right time.

But it is also true that the guy who handed us the excellence for many, many years as you say, stopped producing excellence. He seemed to double down on his worst impulses; trashing players in press conferences, using his bench like a penalty box, being a jerk to media (especially "small" ones), while becoming a prisoner of the 2-3 zone that he had put on the map.

It's okay to acknowledge both. But, you totally off base in that last paragraph. A second tier recruiting school? Not sure, I agree with that but whatever. High expectations? Yes, guilty as charged. As a Syracuse fan I expect our program not to be irrelevant for most of a decade and trending downward even further. Is that unreasonable? If so, call me unreasonable.

Ingrates? He got paid MILLIONS of dollars to coach sports in one spot that has a low cost of living. He didn't have to drag his family all over the country from job to job. The school and community stood by and supported him through two NCAA violations. They named the court after him. He got to build a roster around his kids and coach them in P5 college basketball. If acknowledging the fact that he didn't walk on water and made some questionable decisions in his later years is ungrateful, so be it, call me an ingrate.
Pretty sure this is in response to Dave . Really good post,
 
Pretty sure this is in response to Dave . Really good post,
It IS good, and thoughtful. How we respond to gifts given is a personal thing. How and why we began to decline is a nuanced, subjective thing. I guess I fully believe he would have pulled us out of the slide. Why? Because of all the many times people said he/we couldn’t, and he did anyway. The money? The rewards for a coaching life? That’s irrelevant. He was abundantly blessed for his body of work. That is what happens when you succeed in certain fields. Respect, admiration for a legacy of excellence is what he deserves and what I and mine will always give him. I honor him for the excitement and joy and nail biting and cussing and for all the highs and lows in a stratosphere many fan bases can only dream of.
 
Oh? And it’s assured otherwise? Do you suffer from such tunnel vision that you believe your qualification of my statement to be true?
Tunnel vision is what I referenced of limiting your search to the 1 or 2 current assistants instead of doing a thorough national search to get an experienced successful head coach where the job won't be too big for him.
 
It IS good, and thoughtful. How we respond to gifts given is a personal thing. How and why we began to decline is a nuanced, subjective thing. I guess I fully believe he would have pulled us out of the slide. Why? Because of all the many times people said he/we couldn’t, and he did anyway. The money? The rewards for a coaching life? That’s irrelevant. He was abundantly blessed for his body of work. That is what happens when you succeed in certain fields. Respect, admiration for a legacy of excellence is what he deserves and what I and mine will always give him. I honor him for the excitement and joy and nail biting and cussing and for all the highs and lows in a stratosphere many fan bases can only dream of.
People can both love the fact that JB gave us 40+ wonderful years, but also realize that by staying too long, he dragged the program
that he built down to this level.
And that is on him for not recognizing what was happening.
As we get older we need smart people around us to gently correct us when we are wrong. I know because at 78 not quite as sharp as I used to be.
 
People can both love the fact that JB gave us 40+ wonderful years, but also realize that by staying too long, he dragged the program
that he built down to this level.
And that is on him for not recognizing what was happening.
As we get older we need smart people around us to gently correct us when we are wrong. I know because at 78 not quite as sharp as I used to be.

TBF - you weren’t all that sharp before.

;)
 
JB both built and destroyed the program.

Everyone recognizes the former part. Only the delusional deny the latter

JB both built and destroyed the program.

Everyone recognizes the former part. Only the delusional deny the latter part.
I have heard the flavor of this position mentioned a lot. Never heard it quite so obtusely. He “destroyed” the program. Join the bandwagon. Lead the mob with pitchforks and torches. Whatever makes your life feel special.
 
People can both love the fact that JB gave us 40+ wonderful years, but also realize that by staying too long, he dragged the program
that he built down to this level.
And that is on him for not recognizing what was happening.
As we get older we need smart people around us to gently correct us when we are wrong. I know because at 78 not quite as sharp as I used to be.
Great perspective. My dad is 79 so right about your and JB's age. He was a corporate accounting manager for his entire career. He's still brilliant with numbers. He's in very good shape for his age, but still wouldn't be able to do the day to day grind that job involved.

By several accounts on the board and just based on the evidence of our records, JB wasn't grinding as hard on the recruiting trail as is required of coach at this level, among other issues. It happens. I wouldn't want to either. But it's part of the job.
 
Great perspective. My dad is 79 so right about your and JB's age. He was a corporate accounting manager for his entire career. He's still brilliant with numbers. He's in very good shape for his age, but still wouldn't be able to do the day to day grind that job involved.

By several accounts on the board and just based on the evidence of our records, JB wasn't grinding as hard on the recruiting trail as is required of coach at this level, among other issues. It happens. I wouldn't want to either. But it's part of the job.
Again, the vast majority of posts defending the latter years of JBs run are from posters who've identified themselved as older folks.

It's not a coincidence. It's very personal to them and I get it.
 
Great perspective. My dad is 79 so right about your and JB's age. He was a corporate accounting manager for his entire career. He's still brilliant with numbers. He's in very good shape for his age, but still wouldn't be able to do the day to day grind that job involved.

By several accounts on the board and just based on the evidence of our records, JB wasn't grinding as hard on the recruiting trail as is required of coach at this level, among other issues. It happens. I wouldn't want to either. But it's part of the job.
Worked 3 days a week 4 hours a day as a cashier at Home Depot in Cicero up until February 2022.
But at 76 it was time to finally stop. Still good with figures, but the energy to lift bundles and
going in every day finally becomes a bit much.
 
I have heard the flavor of this position mentioned a lot. Never heard it quite so obtusely. He “destroyed” the program. Join the bandwagon. Lead the mob with pitchforks and torches. Whatever makes your life feel special.

Feel free to continue thinking him sticking well past his expiration date didn’t significantly damage the program if it makes you feel special. It really just makes you unwilling to accept reality - but it does seem a lot of folks here thinks it makes them “loyal” or “true fans” or “special” or some other such insanity.
 
Feel free to continue thinking him sticking well past his expiration date didn’t significantly damage the program if it makes you feel special. It really just makes you unwilling to accept reality - but it does seem a lot of folks here thinks it makes them “loyal” or “true fans” or “special” or some other such insanity.
Loyalty as “insanity” is quite an interesting notion. I do feel special! Thanks! If you view your subjective opinion (and the groupthink on the topic) is “reality” then good for you! Maybe not so good for those you share your life with?
 

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