If Bernie is guilty... | Syracusefan.com

If Bernie is guilty...

jr4750

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I will obviously be enraged for the victims, utterly and horribly disgusted. I am trying to make that the principal concern I have, but I simply cannot divorce the fact that he will bring down a legendary coach and program with shear ego and selfishness. He would have beaten the system by not being prosecuted for his crimes in 2002, and then decided to make matters worse by allowing others to put their reputations on the line for him. That alone is simply baffling to me. I sincerely hope, just because of how this horrible saga has played out, and of course first and foremost for the victims, that that doesn't happen. My faith in the decency of humanity and the bond of friendship will be severely broken! No way JB sticks up for Bernie if he knew him to be guilty
 

AZOrange

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I will obviously be enraged for the victims, utterly and horribly disgusted. I am trying to make that the principal concern I have, but I simply cannot divorce the fact that he will bring down a legendary coach and program with shear ego and selfishness. He would have beaten the system by not being prosecuted for his crimes in 2002, and then decided to make matters worse by allowing others to put their reputations on the line for him. That alone is simply baffling to me. I sincerely hope, just because of how this horrible saga has played out, and of course first and foremost for the victims, that that doesn't happen. My faith in the decency of humanity and the bond of friendship will be severely broken! No way JB sticks up for Bernie if he knew him to be guilty
If Bernie is guilty, it is over for me and Cuse. I just cannot reconcile child molestation enough to continue following the program and donating to the University. And I agree part of that stems from the underlying complete abandonment of morality not only with respect to kids but with respect to everyone around him.
 

albanycuse

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If Bernie is guilty, it is over for me and Cuse. I just cannot reconcile child molestation enough to continue following the program and donating to the University. And I agree part of that stems from the underlying complete abandonment of morality not only with respect to kids but with respect to everyone around him.
see ya, if he is guilty i will be greatly sickened and disgusted and saddened but i will always love su basketball, its been a loyal companion of mine for 25 + years. i wont put blame on other members of the staff because of one bad apple, ill still keep the bushel.
 

jr4750

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If Bernie is guilty, it is over for me and Cuse. I just cannot reconcile child molestation enough to continue following the program and donating to the University. And I agree part of that stems from the underlying complete abandonment of morality not only with respect to kids but with respect to everyone around him.
I'm with you AZ, and as a lawyer I wonder if you could give your opinion on this. I fail to believe there was ever a coverup, as just too many people have stuck up for him. As such, just how culpable could SU as an institution be? Without invading one's privacy how would SU, if never suspicious of it until it was brought to bear in 2002, be responsible and lose the support of their fan base? If Bernie was a master at doing this behind closed doors, with no one suspicious or even thinking something devious was happening, that only makes him seem worse, right?
 

armory

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There is more to SU basketball than one man. I'm sorry, but as disgusted as I would be, SU basketball has become too much a part of me to let one man's sick acts committed two decades ago destroy it. To me, it wasn't BF who caused SU bball to become part of who I am, and he wouldn't be the reason to end it.
 

AZOrange

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I'm with you AZ, and as a lawyer I wonder if you could give your opinion on this. I fail to believe there was ever a coverup, just too many people have stuck up for him, and as such, just how culpable could SU as an institution be? Without invading one's privacy how would SU, if never suspicious of it until it was brought to bear in 2002, be responsible and as such, lose the support of their fan base? If Bernie was a master at doing this behind closed doors, with no one suspicious or even thinking something devious was happening, that only makes him seem worse, right?
IMO (take it with a grain of salt), it all depends on what the University knew and when they knew it. Let's say for example that they interviewed a new accuser that still had rights in NY in 2005 but decided there wasnt anything there and didnt tell police. That may open the University up to civil liability I would think. It really depends on who or what is out there...with respect to Lang and Davis, I dont see any way the University is liable there.
 

orange79

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If Bernie is guilty, it is over for me and Cuse. I just cannot reconcile child molestation enough to continue following the program and donating to the University. And I agree part of that stems from the underlying complete abandonment of morality not only with respect to kids but with respect to everyone around him.
So, if Bernie is guilty and no one else knew, and there was no cover up, you're done? Really? Obviously your choice, but that is a bit over the top.
 

jekelish

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Yeah, the University and the basketball program are bigger than one man. They were here before Bernie Fine, and they'll be here long after Bernie Fine. He's just one person passing through in the grand scheme of things.
 

AZOrange

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So, if Bernie is guilty and no one else knew, and there was no cover up, you're done? Really? Obviously your choice, but that is a bit over the top.

Yes, if there are lots of other victims...which I believe is what makes Bernie guilty, then I cannot believe no one else knew.
 

dollarbill44

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IMO (take it with a grain of salt), it all depends on what the University knew and when they knew it. Let's say for example that they interviewed a new accuser that still had rights in NY in 2005 but decided there wasnt anything there and didnt tell police. That may open the University up to civil liability I would think. It really depends on who or what is out there...with respect to Lang and Davis, I dont see any way the University is liable there.

Do you really think that the University would do this? I assume that they would have at least received strong legal advice to the contrary and that would mean that they then disregarded it? That would literally be taking a reputation-damaging situation and making it a potentially nuclear situation at some point down the road. That would also open up anyone with knowledge to potential criminal charges as well as personal liability. I have serious doubts that anyone not directly involved with the basketball team would take those risks. Also keep in mind that we had a relatively new chancellor and AD in 2005 who would have had little skin in the game and little to lose by turning the information over to the DA if the investigation turned up anything incriminating. It would just be non-sensical to the nth degree.
 

jr4750

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Yes, if there are lots of other victims...which I believe is what makes Bernie guilty, then I cannot believe no one else knew.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. If true, someone had to know, and that's where I feel I am falling into insanity, because I can't imagine covering up for this! Who the heck would do that? I think my whole belief Bernie is innocent stems from my hopes that no one would be so dumb as to let a pedophile continue to be free.
 

orangenirvana

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Yes, if there are lots of other victims...which I believe is what makes Bernie guilty, then I cannot believe no one else knew.

You choose to believe that people knew about it.

I choose to believe (STRONGLY) that no one in their right mind would ever allow Fine to stay in the program if they knew about this.

Frankly, I think it is really messed up to just assume that people would cover something like that up.
 

Millhouse

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You choose to believe that people knew about it.

I choose to believe (STRONGLY) that no one in their right mind would ever allow Fine to stay in the program if they knew about this.

Frankly, I think it is really messed up to just assume that people would cover something like that up.
if they really believed it were true, would Julie let them live right across the street with young sons? if they did know, they could still move with plausible deniability. even if you were going to cover up something, wouldn't you go buy a bigger house somewhere away from a guy you knew was a creep?

i think they really believe his innocence
 

AZOrange

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Do you really think that the University would do this? I assume that they would have at least received strong legal advice to the contrary and that would mean that they then disregarded it? That would literally be taking a reputation-damaging situation and making it a potentially nuclear situation at some point down the road. That would also open up anyone with knowledge to potential criminal charges as well as personal liability. I have serious doubts that anyone not directly involved with the basketball team would take those risks. Also keep in mind that we had a relatively new chancellor and AD in 2005 who would have had little skin in the game and little to lose by turning the information over to the DA if the investigation turned up anything incriminating. It would just be non-sensical to the nth degree.
No he was asking how the University could have exposure. I think it is a longshot.
 

netman99

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The fact that so many people are flying to back him up, to me , indicates, if he is guilty noone knew but those involved. There is no way SU covered this up! That is a quantum leap from having a pedofile on staff. And I still believe he is not guilty.
 

AZOrange

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You choose to believe that people knew about it.

I choose to believe (STRONGLY) that no one in their right mind would ever allow Fine to stay in the program if they knew about this.

Frankly, I think it is really messed up to just assume that people would cover something like that up.
Did you think Penn State was covering up sex abuse crimes 3 months ago? Like I said, the only way, imo that there is guilt here is if there are alot of victims. And if there are alot of victims, I think the likelihood that (a) no one knew or saw anything ever, and (b) that the University's investigation was thorough are very small. This is why I dont believe much of what I am hearing now. I think (a) and (b) are currently unlikely. But if you get 50 victims, this takes on a much different tenor imo.
 

jr4750

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Did you think Penn State was covering up sex abuse crimes 3 months ago? Like I said, the only way, imo that there is guilt here is if there are alot of victims. And if there are alot of victims, I think the likelihood that (a) no one knew or saw anything ever, and (b) that the University's investigation was thorough are very small. This is why I dont believe much of what I am hearing now. I think (a) and (b) are currently unlikely. But if you get 50 victims, this takes on a much different tenor imo.
I agree with that completely!
 

pfister1

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if they really believed it were true, would Julie let them live right across the street with young sons? if they did know, they could still move with plausible deniability. even if you were going to cover up something, wouldn't you go buy a bigger house somewhere away from a guy you knew was a creep?

i think they really believe his innocence

Agree, also trying to reconcile how BSK, given their reputation, could have been involved in an investigation where people knew of Bernie's actions and find nothing. The SU investigation conducted by BSK wouldn't have centered on whether BF could be prosecuted for a crime, but rather were SU's interests imperiled in any way by the actions alleged to have been perpetrated by B.F. So if there were even credible whispers of this sort of activity by BF, outside of Davis, you would expect that report to have come back in such a fashion that SU would have been required to distance itself from Bernie.
 

dollarbill44

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No he was asking how the University could have exposure. I think it is a longshot.
I thought he was talking about being done with the University depending on what they knew and what they did with it. My apologies.
 

AZOrange

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Agree, also trying to reconcile how BSK, given their reputation, could have been involved in an investigation where people knew of Bernie's actions and find nothing. The SU investigation conducted by BSK wouldn't have centered on whether BF could be prosecuted with a crime, but rather were SU's interests imperiled in any way by the actions alleged to have been perpetrated by B.F. So if there were even credible whispers of this sort of activity by BF, outside of Davis, you would expect that report to have come back in such a fashion that SU would have been required to distance itself from Bernie.
Exactly. My point was only that if something comes out now that indicates there are alot of new victims, there is going to be alot of talk about how thorough that investigation was. Again, people can say all they want behind closed door investigations and to the media, but if these people start getting called in front of a grand jury who knows what will be said?
 

John Syracuse

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boeheim survives no matter what...he had no reason to believe child molestation may be going on
 

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