If I could...

[Cowtown]

Sorrentine went 5-20 that game, so your example is basically saying he should be a Cooney. Coach Brennan was on the radio a week or so ago and said he had been 1-11 or something like that from 3 before he hit the 30 footer.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=254000036

If you had used Germain, I likely would have let it slide.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. As I recall Mopa N'Djila(?) went off for like 20 when he hadn't scored 6 in his career. But I can live with even that, because that happens in basketball. I still want to scream at the idiot ref who T'd up Roberts - for slapping the backboard while still in the air after a dunk - and effectively ended the comeback. That was the most incompetent call I've ever seen.

 

[bpo57]

A few things in Cooney's defense. You can't tell me that playing 40 minutes night after night doesn't wear the kid down. If he played 34-35 min a night his percentages would most certainly rise. I don't think he is selfish. He competes his butt off to try and help the team win. Yes his shot selection is shaky sometimes but I don't think it accrues from selfishness. He's a shooter on a team with somewhat limited options. The kid dives on the floor for everything and is a decent defender.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

A few things in Cooney's defense. You can't tell me that playing 40 minutes night after night doesn't wear the kid down. If he played 34-35 min a night his percentages would most certainly rise. I don't think he is selfish. He competes his butt off to try and help the team win. Yes his shot selection is shaky sometimes but I don't think it accrues from selfishness. He's a shooter on a team with somewhat limited options. The kid dives on the floor for everything and is a decent defender.

There's a line of thought that goes that if you're on a limited team and you're one of the better scorers, it's excusable if you crank up a bad shot now and again.

The opposing line of thought goes that if you're on a limited team, anyone taking bad shots just limits it further.:noidea:

I tend towards the latter, because I believe that when a player is permitted to take enough bad shots, the line gets blurry to them as to what makes for a good shot vs a bad one and the quality of shot they work for steadily declines.

 

[tbonezone]

my point above was simply that if you score 20 points great.but if it took you 20 some shots...not so great.
cooney's risk /reward ratio not so great last 10 games. and no doubt fatigue is a major issue.

( i would hope 3 yrs is a more than adequate sample size)

 

[Millhouse]

He doesn't shoot, we lose. He shoots a lot and misses, we lose. He shoots a lot and makes, we win. Pretty simple, really.

How would any of us know what happens when doesn't shoot? He guns every game

 

[Ghost]

How would any of us know what happens when doesn't shoot? He guns every game

I know - this is the 40 minute argument as well. He has to play 40 minutes or the sky would fall.

The game before he came out for 2 minutes and we went on an 8-2 run in the middle of the second half. Sky didn't fall.

Ditto Clemson game.

Against the "better teams" we played this year (ACC, P5 teams)

Michigan: 10-7 w/ Cooney off the floor
St. Johns: 2-2
Georgia Tech: 3-6
Florida State: 0-5
Clemson: 5-2
Pitt: 8-2

It's not quite the disastrous results people would you lead you to believe. Again, just saying that maybe the kid could catch a breather here or there and the team wouldn't implode and TC could be more effective.

I think JB does him a disservice by having him run around endlessly for 40 minutes without a breather. The kid should get a blow when he can. We even had Rak sit for a minute or two yesterday and the team didn't wilt. If we can get these kids a minute or two in certain situations...do it up. Rak and Cooney are really expending a ton of energy and wearing down.

That's on JB.

Florida State I know was during walk-on minutes...not sure about some of the others, but Michigan, Pitt, etc...were regular game play.

 

[NKR1978]

I hope of we're banned from the Tournament next year he transfers and lights us up in the Dome playing for Georgetown.

He's a very good role player who should be counted on to average 8-10 a game being asked to be a top 2 option. That's pretty much what it comes down to.

I'm reading and participating in this thread because I have nothing better to do, but I really can't believe the continued consternation over this kid.

 

[supp]

Sorrentine went 5-20 that game, so your example is basically saying he should be a Cooney. Coach Brennan was on the radio a week or so ago and said he had been 1-11 or something like that from 3 before he hit the 30 footer.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=254000036

If you had used Germain, I likely would have let it slide.

Yeah, yeah! That was for dramatic effect! Fine, I'll let you pick any mid-major 3-point shooter you like for comparison's sake. My larger point has been that he's a very good mid-major level player trying to carry a high-major team. That might work some nights but most of the time it won't. I've been saying this for a while now, there's no reason for him to be leading the team in shot attempts. I'd like to see the W-L when he shoots 12 or more a game. I bet it ain't pretty.

 

[anomander]

I had no problem with his shooting. Who else do you want to shoot? I do think Mike could be a little more selfish, but that's why he shoots a higher percentage. We have 3 offensive players, and 1 of them is being double and tripled team.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

He doesn't shoot, we lose. He shoots a lot and misses, we lose. He shoots a lot and makes, we win.

Pretty simple, really.

Just like the UNC game.

 

[tbonezone]

"and 1 of them is being double and tripled team."
yet still manages a significantly greater shooting % and pps # than the dude drawing the lone defender.

 

[Ghost]

I had no problem with his shooting. Who else do you want to shoot? I do think Mike could be a little more selfish, but that's why he shoots a higher percentage. We have 3 offensive players, and 1 of them is being double and tripled team.

I would trade Joseph taking more mid-range jumpers in place of some of those off balance jumpers.

Everyone is happy with Cooney shooting. Some people don't like when Cooney shoots off-balanced shots early in the shot clock. Cuz he doesn't make very many of them.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

The only real upside to Cooney's volume shooting is that it really helps boost Roberson's offensive rebound numbers.

And the downside is that it creates easy scoring opportunities for opposing teams.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

So coach K, living legend, he of 1000+ wins, 2 Olympic golds, multiple nstional championships and final fours, decides to take his best defender and use him to face guard Cooney, with instructions to not help on defense, because Cooney stinks?
You really should learn more about basketball before posting again, because you obviously
really don't understand basketball.

Not hating on Cooney, but you point to the reasons why Cooney should be more selective on his shots and to look to create for his teamates.

 

[kcsu]

I have no problem with Trevor shooting when he has a good look. My problem is that he jacks up threes that make no sense. Some of his shot selection is beyond horrible. Lots of time on the clock, not open, you name it he does it. When he has good looks he needs to shoot but other than that he should work the O

 

[manleyzoo]

So coach K, living legend, he of 1000+ wins, 2 Olympic golds, multiple nstional championships and final fours, decides to take his best defender and use him to face guard Cooney, with instructions to not help on defense, because Cooney stinks?
You really should learn more about basketball before posting again, because you obviously
really don't understand basketball.

So says the expert...Uh, hate to tell you but you just made my point for me. Cooney has shown over a three-year sample size that he can't shoot when well defended. Can't. Some guys can but he can't. But he keeps jacking them up. It's kind of a duh. When he's open and sets his feet and has a little breathing room, he can shoot. But that's it. So why not be that guy instead of trying to be something you're not. And, just for the record, Duke switched all game long. Was Cooney tightly defended? Yes, he was. So, become a decoy, use a shot fake, get inside, actually pass the ball (it's an amazing concept). Make them pay for how they defend you.

Oh, and one more thing...going back a month to the Clemson game, he's on an 18 for 69 streak on threes, as in 26 percent over 9 games. That's who he is. Was he well defended in those games? Probably. But in those same games, he shot 19 for 41 inside the arc, or 46 percent. Maybe, just maybe he should be just a bit more selective on his shots, Mr. Expert. Maybe he's a good two-point shooter and a selective three-point guy. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not how he plays.

 

[tbonezone]

there really should be an ACC decoy of the year award. 100$ gift certificate to BASS Pro Shops.

 

[Carolinasu]

This is a major reason why I think next year is going to be worse. He's a volume shooter but not a volume maker.

Next year we have a ton of bigs and only lose Xmas( our best player) but everyone else will be much more cohesive with another year of being together. Lets not forget Syracuse came into this season ranking 294 th out of 345 teams in minutes played. That's really tough to expect them to be totally familiar without playing much together. Gbinije and Roberson have made huge strides this year and I think the zone will once again be what we have come accustomed to. Every person that sees Coleman at practice has nothing but positives to say so I believe next year will be far better! not even close to this year as long as the NCAA cooperates. Keep the faith bro.

 

[Carolinasu]

R-Freshman yr : 32 % fg , .91 pts per shot
Soph yr : 40 % fg , 1.24 pts per shot
Junior yr : 37 % fg 1.16 pts per shot

avg.: 36%, 1.09 pps

and just for comparison the much maligned and oft benched Kjoseph #'s
FR : 41 %fg , 1.1 pps

You can't hit a home run if you don't swing!

 

[bpo57]

Btw if you don't like the shots Cooney takes then wouldn't the beef also be with JB. If Joseph throws up a bad shot he's on the bench in a heartbeat. When Cooney jacks up some wild shots he faces no such punishment. Obviously JB is fine with him taking those shots.

 

[Bayside44]

I'd agree with you if there was someone better to shoot it but there ain't.

Joseph is starting to come into his own a bit, that's helpful.

 

[tbonezone]

"I hope of we're banned from the Tournament next year he transfers and lights us up in the Dome playing for Georgetown."

d.smith-rivera leads the hoyas at 33.5 minutes per game.(1.38pps). nobody else avgs over 30 min.

 

[br801]

I had no problem with his shooting. Who else do you want to shoot? I do think Mike could be a little more selfish, but that's why he shoots a higher percentage. We have 3 offensive players, and 1 of them is being double and tripled team.

Cooney is a volume 3-point shooter (one of his primary roles on this team) and forces up quite a few of them, the ugliest of which get seared into memory.

Statistically however, he isn't the out of control gunner many here like to claim. Through the Duke game, Cooney attempts 13.2 shots per 40 minutes. By comparison, Christmas attempts 14, Gbinije 11.2, Roberson 10.6, Johnson 12.7 and Patterson 11.1.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/syracuse/2015.html

 

[MikeSU02]

Cooney is a volume 3-point shooter (one of his primary roles on this team) and forces up quite a few of them, the ugliest of which get seared into memory.

Statistically however, he isn't the out of control gunner many here like to claim. Through the Duke game, Cooney attempts 13.2 shots per 40 minutes. By comparison, Christmas attempts 14, Gbinije 11.2, Roberson 10.6, Johnson 12.7 and Patterson 11.1.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/syracuse/2015.html

Nice try.

Cooney plays basically 40 minutes.

BJ and Buss barely play. Rak is a possible AA and G is leading the ACC in 3 point shooting. Those two have the right to shoot.

You can argue if Cooney should be taking as many shots as he does, but you cannot argue that he isn't a gunner.

Not all shots are equal and TC's TS% and eFG% show that he is, indeed, a gunner.

That is outside of the fact that his conference average is 5.1 FGM and 14.5 FGA.

He is absolutely pulling attempts that should go to Rak and G and possibly Roberson depending on matchups.

 

[SWC75]

he's got McNamara disease

I wish he would catch what McNamara had