I'm a basketball meathead

[Cowtown]

I dislike the rule that allows teams to inbound at half court coming out of a timeout though.

I figure it's coming to college and eventually HS ball in the US. FIBA has been doing that for 4 years, now which is what HS and college ball here plays. Also the rest of the world. The time-out rule is better, too. You get 2 in first half, 3 in the 2nd, 1 in OT. No carry over. And you can have only 2 TO's under 2 minutes, so if you have all 3 at 2:00 in the 2nd, you lose one. And the ball doesn't come in at half-court, it's actually at the top of the three point line extended, opp. the scorer's table. And there are no TV monitors to check:

 

[Cowtown]

Not only the fouling...the refs constantly going to the monitor kills all the momentum of the game and gives teams free timeouts. That crap has to stop.

I agree completely. The problem is the TV announcers show the play over and over (think Trevor Cooney vs. Gonzaga). We all want the right call, but it's gone too far the way it is.

 

[Knicks411]

I can't believe how quickly Battle fouled. Plus him going for the steal the possession before. Not the best final minute there.

 

[realorange]

Not sure why he was so pissed at Gillon who punched the ball away creating a turnover.

Risked the chance of fouling.

 

[realorange]

Couldn't agree more. I understand it, but it just seems like an underhanded way to play. Play defense, make a stop.

For this bunch, though, I'm just grateful for a win.

Underhanded?? Simply good strategy like milking the clock when you're ahead late in the game.

You would have really hated Dean's 4 corner offense back in the day. I'm sure you are not old enough to remember the OSU games when Hank Iba coached. Tedious at best!

 

[Marsh01]

I love fouling at the end up three. Why give a team a chance to tie the game and possibly lose in ot? I remember watching a second round NCAA game with Ohio State (with Oden and Conley) playing Sean Millers Xavier team. Xavier had them up three at the end, didnt foul, Conley (I believe) hit a three to tie it with like 2 seconds left and then they won it in OT. Never give a team that chance.

 

[pfister1]

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Great points. Agree totally with both. I still like fouling up 3 but way too much time. I was also shocked Lydon was the inbounder when he can make free throws, but I'm trying to decide who I'd want to replace him as inbounder?

Well I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want the inbound being received in that situation by Thompson, Coleman or Howard, not that I would necessarily trust them to inbound the ball either.

 

[CorduroyG]

I love fouling at the end up three. Why give a team a chance to tie the game and possibly lose in ot? I remember watching a second round NCAA game with Ohio State (with Oden and Conley) playing Sean Millers Xavier team. Xavier had them up three at the end, didnt foul, Conley (I believe) hit a three to tie it with like 2 seconds left and then they won it in OT. Never give a team that chance.

i like it with under 10 seconds left, over 10 seconds theres too much time left for bad things to happen.

the biggest downside to fouling up 3 is you can lose the game in regulation. you foul, they hit both fts, they foul you and you miss 1 or both, they come down and hit a shot and win. if you dont foul the worse case scenario is overtime.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I love fouling at the end up three. Why give a team a chance to tie the game and possibly lose in ot? I remember watching a second round NCAA game with Ohio State (with Oden and Conley) playing Sean Millers Xavier team. Xavier had them up three at the end, didnt foul, Conley (I believe) hit a three to tie it with like 2 seconds left and then they won it in OT. Never give a team that chance.

Are the people arguing the fact that we fouled or the fact that we fouled with so much time left on the clock.

 

[81South]

I figure it's coming to college and eventually HS ball in the US. FIBA has been doing that for 4 years, now which is what HS and college ball here plays. Also the rest of the world. The time-out rule is better, too. You get 2 in first half, 3 in the 2nd, 1 in OT. No carry over. And you can have only 2 TO's under 2 minutes, so if you have all 3 at 2:00 in the 2nd, you lose one. And the ball doesn't come in at half-court, it's actually at the top of the three point line extended, opp. the scorer's table. And there are no TV monitors to check:

It's already in high school ball...section 3 girls utilize this in the 4th quarters of games

 

[81South]

JB was clearly irritated at the execution of this strategy last night...clearly they weren't on the same page as to when the foul should have been given. Luckily things worked out for us.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Risked the chance of fouling.

It was a loose ball and Gillon just punched it to a teammate. Even JB realized he was in the wrong since he cracked a smile and a chuckle.

 

[CorduroyG]

we got burned last year by not fouling. clemson i think? i think from that point on jb is always gonna foul.

 

[Cowtown]

It's already in high school ball...section 3 girls utilize this in the 4th quarters of games

In FIBA, it's only in the last two minutes of the 4th Q and any OT's - if you saved it that long.

 

[Cowtown]

You would have really hated Dean's 4 corner offense back in the day. I'm sure you are not old enough to remember the OSU games when Hank Iba coached. Tedious at best!

Yes, the "Ford Corners." I hated Dean Smith for that, the dark lord of college hoops. It was loathsome at best, and it's a major reason why there's a shot clock in college hoops today. In 1982, UNC ran off the last seven minutes of the ACC championship game against Virginia to win 47-45. Seen on national TV, it was an embarrassment to the game. The ACC introduced the shot clock the next year.

 

[Knicks411]

Yes, the "Ford Corners." I hated Dean Smith for that, the dark lord of college hoops. It was loathsome at best, and it's a major reason why there's a shot clock in college hoops today. In 1982, UNC ran off the last seven minutes of the ACC championship game against Virginia to win 47-45. Seen on national TV, it was an embarrassment to the game. The ACC introduced the shot clock the next year.

It's just amazing to me that the NBA went to the shot clock in 55 (I think, within a year or two of that) and it took the NCAA 30 years to implement it across the board. I get that the game was pretty fast paced in general in the intervening period, but there were also games where it was, well, less than fast paced. (Didn't Duke and UNC play like a 10 point first half in the 60's?)

 

[OttoMets]

Yeah, like flopping and Dean Smith's stall, fouling up three is obviously legal and has merits as a strategy.

Stylistically I think it makes the game worse. Like flopping, it's unsporting in that it violates the spirit of the rules without breaking a rule.

Mostly I'm glad we won. But a rule change that incentivizes more last-second shots instead of parades to the free throw like would be good for the game.

 

[Cowtown]

It's just amazing to me that the NBA went to the shot clock in 55 (I think, within a year or two of that) and it took the NCAA 30 years to implement it across the board. I get that the game was pretty fast paced in general in the intervening period, but there were also games where it was, well, less than fast paced. (Didn't Duke and UNC play like a 10 point first half in the 60's?)

College sports are dominated by the coaches' influence on the rules committees. They fight very hard against anything that mitigates against coach-control of games. That's why the worst rule in college hoops today, the one-and-one, is still on the books.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, like flopping and Dean Smith's stall, fouling up three is obviously legal and has merits as a strategy.

Stylistically I think it makes the game worse. Like flopping, it's unsporting in that it violates the spirit of the rules without breaking a rule.

Mostly I'm glad we won. But a rule change that incentivizes more last-second shots instead of parades to the free throw like would be good for the game.

I see the argument from the aesthetic POV. Maybe the talked about rule where a team could decide to inbound the ball instead of taking FT? Only problem is the other side of the coin, a team winning that gets intentionally fouled may just opt to take the ball out as well.

 

[Cowtown]

I see the argument from the aesthetic POV. Maybe the talked about rule where a team could decide to inbound the ball instead of taking FT? Only problem is the other side of the coin, a team winning that gets intentionally fouled may just opt to take the ball out as well.

FIBA had "right of election" on possession vs. foul shots. It led to fights and was dumped. So today they have the "unsportsmanlike foul," - which is a foul committed with no attempt to make a play on the ball - is two FT's and possession. Easy.

 

[Knicks411]

FIBA had "right of election" on possession vs. foul shots. It led to fights and was dumped. So today they have the "unsportsmanlike foul," - which is a foul committed with no attempt to make a play on the ball - is two FT's and possession. Easy.

There is a lot of interpretation there though, no? Teams that are fouling intentionally can still attempt to make a play on the ball. (At least I'd think so)

 

[OttoMets]

There is a lot of interpretation there though, no? Teams that are fouling intentionally can still attempt to make a play on the ball. (At least I'd think so)

It's great on paper. In reality what ref is going to make a subjective call to effectively end the game in one team's favor?

"We wanted to let the players decide the game."

If they consistently struggle with subjective stuff like White's block/charge (damn that's a horrific call that we could still see coming a mile away), this one could cause some real problems, unfortunately.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Are the people arguing the fact that we fouled or the fact that we fouled with so much time left on the clock.

I'm arguing that it blows.

 

[Cowtown]

There is a lot of interpretation there though, no? Teams that are fouling intentionally can still attempt to make a play on the ball. (At least I'd think so)

Yes, there certainly is some. And it's largely situational. It's the kind of stuff refs talk about in their pre-game and at the half, to make sure they're all on the same page..