I'm expecting some heat from this post, BUT...

[Ottoman]

Hop ran the 2-3 at Washington in recent years, and it was still a very successful defensive scheme. The problem was that his offense was the worst version of iso ball you have ever seen.

That being said, can you attract elite personnel to play on a primarily zone team these days? I'm guessing the answer is yes, but it will take some serious and consistent NIL dollars to make it happen.

Regardless, Cuse needs to build its brand back. After JB and the 2-3 went away, there was nothing to replace them in people's minds. Nothing that made us special. Whatever we do, we should start focusing on doing things differently than other teams. We simply don't have the resources to beat the heavyweights using familiar strategies and schemes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We lost our edge in zone when we lost our athleticism

Playing it with the Boeheim Boys and Girard wasn't a harbinger of success.

The zone can be dangerous with elite athletes.

Started to go downhill before then. The kinks in the armor started to show when everyone copied Pitinos strategy of overloading one side. We were terrible in the zone with Gillon and Battle up top too.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think there were a lot of variables that went into the decline of JAB's zone. He clearly got to tinkering with different rotations and slides and it changed over the last couple of decades. He needed specific types of players to make it work and when he did, it was a thing of beauty.

However, talent and size started to diverge in our recruits and as Kirbivore posted, the square peg round hole era. Remember Jonny Flynn and Paul Harris played a pretty good zone with a couple of shorter/wider bigs.

Then it started morphing into these beanpole centers with zero offensive capability covering the corner three and undersized SFs as guards at the same time as teams began to deploy more shooters and more capable shooters and focus on threes more. He started compromising to get the right physical attributes rather than the best players in response to more threes being shot. Then the family ball started and defense really went to crap. We were a top-30 KP defense as recently as 18-19, by 19-20 we were 116th, 77th in 20-21, 207th in 21-22, and 185th in 22-23.

TL;DR I don't think it takes a big shift in 3PT% to challenge the zone's math and JAB did what he could to counteract it with size and tweaks, but he couldn't get the right players to make his ideas work as well as he thought they would.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

I don't think a zone has a place as anything more than a change-of-pace junk defense in today's game (and it hasn't in like 10 years if we're being honest).

 

[baggerbob]

I don't think a zone has a place as anything more than a change-of-pace junk defense in today's game (and it hasn't in like 10 years if we're being honest).

Need to get after teams 3/4 and 1/2 court
Disrupt their timing. Give them less time to get in their offense.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

TL;DR I don't think it takes a big shift in 3PT% to challenge the zone's math and JAB did what he could to counteract it with size and tweaks, but he couldn't get the right players to make his ideas work as well as he thought they would.

I believe Dean Smith said something to the effect of "You can draw up the perfect play, but when the whistle blows, recruiting takes over." Might be oversimplifying it but I think it's insightful.

 

[PoppyHart]

So we hired Kline 9 months ago to identify people who would be good fits for Red’s system, and now Kline be like,”yo Red, What is the system again”?

 

[JeffCuse]

The 2-3 is an archaic defense no one runs as their primary anymore. Hire a coach who can coach man D

 

[Cusefan78]

His personality is too strong and would overwhelm Red.

A shoe string overwhelms red.

 

[BillSU]

I saw wide open threes after wide open threes the entire tournament so far.Really haven’t seen much zone being played but teams that play man give up as many open threes as zone teams do.JB was right when he used to say all the time how teams that play man give up threes but nobody talks about it.

Exactly. Thank you talking about man vs. zone and the three. I think it's important to know as many threes are gotten with either defense.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I just want to be multiple. It’s harder to play a team that can do a couple different things. Throw the offense off base. 2-3 zone, press, matchup zone.

Our defense is multiple. There’s multiple ways it allows the opponent to score.

 

[Jasoncuse]

The 2-3 is an archaic defense no one runs as their primary anymore. Hire a coach who can coach man D

To be fair, nobody really ran it before either.

 

[bnoro]

Here's another wild thought...why don't we wait and see if they can coach man defense when they actually have guys that WANT and have the ABILITY to play man defense. Things like a tall guy that can jump and put his arm in the air at the same time to disrupt an easy basket. Coach has one year to get this done. If he can't, you can all revel with great joy in the removal of Adrian Autry.

I would like Syracuse basketball to be a tourney team next year. If Red can't coach man defense, than maybe the zone might keep him his job. And that would make you a happy camper!

 

[Dcuse]

I would like Syracuse basketball to be a tourney team next year. If Red can't coach man defense, than maybe the zone might keep him his job. And that would make you a happy camper!

It would make me happy. I actually root for Adrian Autry. I’ve never wished more for a man’s success in my sports fandom life. I’m disgusted with the board’s treatment of him and hope with all my heart that he’s able to thumb his nose at all his naysayers here. If he can’t get it done I’ll go along with whatever happens because I love Cuse hoops above all else. I just want him to have a fair chance to have success.

 

[VikesCuse84]

Wild thought now that it seems like the entire roster might be turning over for next year. We know now that Red cannot coach man defense. The guy that we supposedly brought in for that purpose (Englestad) can't coach man defense. We have a clean slate to recruit, with some really athletic wings coming in.

*Whispers* does Red say screw it and build next year's team as a 2-3 zone defensive team?

Personally, I wouldn't be completely against it after watching Kansas almost zone Arkansas to death on Thursday...

Honestly would be okay with this. Whatever they decide to do he has to build a team that has an actual identity. His first two seasons I can’t point to anything that defines the team other than mediocrity.