I'm far from an Xs and Os guy

[Toga]

The one development in the game that seems to have hit about 10 years ago is when a big defender jumps out to help on the guard. 99 times out of 100 it succeeds because the guard invariably just keeps dribbling out horizontally until he is clear of both defenders. By that time the help defender has recovered to cover his own man. That play has uglified the game.

There has to be a way to punish the help defender. One way would be that as soon the guard sees the big jump out him - immediately pass the ball to the wing - the offensive big who briefly is undefended rolls to the basket and the forward receiving the quick pass from the guard immediately hits the undefended big rolling to the hoop.

I frigging hate that play when the big defender leaves his man to cut off / double team the ballhandler. Punish it!

 

[rychi32]

That play is only a counter to the high ball screen. The high ball screen has become every teams go to set. I completely agree that it has made college basketball predictable and ugly.The high hedge prevents the guard from turning the corner, thus negating the high ball screen. The scenario that you gave can work if you have two things. 1. A guard willing to forego a semi-open shot to get a better look INSIDE. 2. A big guy (almost always the screener) who can dive to the basket and make a play. Right now Syracuse has neither of those things.

Preventative note:
I don't know nearly as much about basketball as Jim Boeheim.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Umm...dont blame the defense..blame the lack of fundamental skills in today's players. that crap doesnt work in the nba for a reason.

 

[007]

The one development in the game that seems to have hit about 10 years ago is when a big defender jumps out to help on the guard. 99 times out of 100 it succeeds because the guard invariably just keeps dribbling out horizontally until he is clear of both defenders. By that time the help defender has recovered to cover his own man. That play has uglified the game.

There has to be a way to punish the help defender. One way would be that as soon the guard sees the big jump out him - immediately pass the ball to the wing - the offensive big who briefly is undefended rolls to the basket and the forward receiving the quick pass from the guard immediately hits the undefended big rolling to the hoop.

I frigging hate that play when the big defender leaves his man to cut off / double team the ballhandler. Punish it!

That wasn't too bad with the X & Os, Toga.

Couple of comments. Hedging on ball screens has been a staple of man to man for the last 50 years. It's not new. One counter is roll the screener. It's not as easy as it sounds for a couple of reasons. 1, you have to have a big man who can handle the pass and put the ball on the floor from that position (high screen and roll). 2. The weakside defense will/should rotate into the lane to cover that.

The other option is for the high screener to "pop" to the 3 point line after he sets the screen and the hedge by his defender. I think SU should use this more by setting the high screen with Southerland or Fair, and having them pop rather than roll.

 

[Toga]

That wasn't too bad with the X & Os, Toga.

Couple of comments. Hedging on ball screens has been a staple of man to man for the last 50 years. It's not new. One counter is roll the screener. It's not as easy as it sounds for a couple of reasons. 1, you have to have a big man who can handle the pass and put the ball on the floor from that position (high screen and roll). 2. The weakside defense will/should rotate into the lane to cover that.

The other option is for the high screener to "pop" to the 3 point line after he sets the screen and the hedge by his defender. I think SU should use this more by setting the high screen with Southerland or Fair, and having them pop rather than roll.

That's cool. Just do something instead of continuing to dribble horizontally. Sweet jeebus that makes me nuts.

 

[rychi32]

One of the most effective ways to counter the high hedge is to split it, MCW struggles with that.

 

[007]

That's cool. Just do something instead of continuing to dribble horizontally. Sweet jeebus that makes me nuts.

FWIW, the guards, at least when I played/coached, are taught to dribble horizontally to create more space between you and the man who set the screen. You want to drag the hedger and the guard playing you away from the man who set the screen. That opens up the "roll" and forces the weakside D to overshift. It doesn't drive me nuts when they dribble horizontally. It does when they don't try to exploit the mismatches they just created.

 

[Coach Orange]

I would add that you can help eliminate the hedge man by screening for the player setting the screen. For example:

1. Either Grant, Southerland, or Fair could screen Rak's defender.
2. Rak sprints off the screen to set the ball screen.

Often, this action will cause the hedge man to be late on the hedge.

If the roll and replace action is executed, the replace man should be at the top of the key for the ball handler to pass to for an opportunity for a high-low (This still requires a post player that can make that pass, and a post player that can seal-catch-score).

Also, players need to learn to split the defense if the hedge man loses contact with the screener.

 

[Coach Orange]

FWIW, the guards, at least when I played/coached, are taught to dribble horizontally to create more space between you and the man who set the screen. You want to drag the hedger and the guard playing you away from the man who set the screen. That opens up the "roll" and forces the weakside D to overshift. It doesn't drive me nuts when they dribble horizontally. It does when they don't try to exploit the mismatches they just created.

Jeff Van Gundy teaches that the screener should be on a 45-degree angle (butt-to-corner) when setting a high or flat ball screen (which many bigs at the college-level don't do, but bigs in the pros do). This allows the dribbler to come off moving toward the hoop rather than toward the sideline. Still, he teaches that the ball handler should take at least two dribbles to clear the screen and read the defense. This creates the space you discuss. When that hedge happens, Van Gundy says a dribbler should hesitate and go, forcing the big to make a choice--stay with the ball or retreat to defend the big. This creates those mismatches and numbers games you discuss.