In Hop’s Own Words

[Orangefizz]

I truly believe Hop will be the next SU coach after JAB. This year there were so many failures on defense at almost every position. The worst zone defense in SU history.

We need big, athletic players at every position for the zone to be a weapon in today’s wide open 3- point shooting offense. Anything short of this makes the zone a defensive liability

 

[FrancoPizza]

If we have big athletic players we should be able to play multiple defenses. Full stop.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I truly believe Hop will be the next SU coach after JAB. This year there we so many failures on defense at almost every position. The worst zone defense in SU history.

We need big athletic players at every position for the zone to be a weapon in today’s wide open 3- point shooting offense. Anything short of this makes the zone a defensive liability

If you can fill your roster with big athletic players, why play zone ? It’s just so stupid to be beholden to a “system”

 

[Orangefizz]

If you can fill your roster with big athletic players, why play zone ? It’s just so stupid to be beholden to a “system”

I think if Hop is the next coach he’ll add full-court pressure and multiple defenses besides the zone. He talked about studying the West Virginia full-court defensive principles at UW

 

[Cuse12]

If we have big athletic players we should be able to play multiple defenses. Full stop.

Yes this should be played out like football teams defenses. Interchanging zone to man defenses on the fly as the coaches see it. Imagine if coach babers said “we will only play a zone defense all year our corners will not be manning up anyone” we would all lose our minds.

 

[DoubleDee]

When we had big players with unfailing zones, no one complained.

 

[gmoney44]

When we had big players with unfailing zones, no one complained.

People have always complained about the zone in CNY. Especially when we went to it exclusively and we had some monster teams.

 

[Orangezoo]

People have always complained about the zone in CNY. Especially when we went to it exclusively and we had some monster teams.

In fairness in those years it was more about switching out of it at times than playing it in general.

 

[dollarbill44]

Yes this should be played out like football teams defenses. Interchanging zone to man defenses on the fly as the coaches see it. Imagine if coach babers said “we will only play a zone defense all year our corners will not be manning up anyone” we would all lose our minds.

It's also ridiculous to compare a football defense to a basketball defense. You might as well say, " if Dino Babers said we lost to Clemson because our shots weren't falling."

 

[dollarbill44]

People have always complained in CNY.

Fify.

 

[Cuse12]

It's also ridiculous to compare a football defense to a basketball defense. You might as well say, " if Dino Babers said we lost to Clemson because our shots weren't falling."

Not at all? Defense is defense. You are trying to stop the ball from getting in the basket/end zone. It takes a football team using many more formations on defense I agree. There are differences but in the end it’s the same outcome. Stop the ball from going in the goal. And to use only one style of defense regardless of personnel is insanity, “doing the same thing over and over expecting different results”

 

[RF2044]

I think if Hop is the next coach he’ll add full-court pressure and multiple defenses besides the zone. He talked about studying the West Virginia full-court defensive principles at UW

... and then proceeded to play zone 100% of the time at UW.

 

[dollarbill44]

Not at all? Defense is defense. You are trying to stop the ball from getting in the basket/end zone. It takes a football team using many more formations on defense I agree. There are differences but in the end it’s the same outcome. Stop the ball from going in the goal. And to use only one style of defense regardless of personnel is insanity, “doing the same thing over and over expecting different results”

Not at all. You cannot compare a sport with a line of scrimmage to one that does not (let alone all of the other material differences). That alone makes them fundamentally incomparable from a strategic standpoint.
Fun fact about the sports definition of "insanity" - It is likely sourced from a sports coach, yet is often incorrectly attributed to Einstein, whose career was dedicated to a field (quantum physics) that relies on the idea that doing the same thing over and over again can, and often does, achieve different outcomes.

 

[Chip]

Look at the bright side, between all the threads, all the comments. If he is our next coach, everyone will have already said their peace and we won't need any new threads.

 

[721Comstock]

Look at the bright side, between all the threads, all the comments. If he is our next coach, everyone will have already said their peace and we won't need any new threads.

 

[FrancoPizza]

When we had big players with unfailing zones, no one complained.

When teams didn't have 5 shooters on the floor, yeah, no one complained.

 

[All4SU]

When teams didn't have 5 shooters on the floor, yeah, no one complained.

Time to push the 3-point line back a bit again.

 

[longtimefan]

Not at all? Defense is defense. You are trying to stop the ball from getting in the basket/end zone. It takes a football team using many more formations on defense I agree. There are differences but in the end it’s the same outcome. Stop the ball from going in the goal. And to use only one style of defense regardless of personnel is insanity, “doing the same thing over and over expecting different results”

That's also the definition of "practice"--running your drills over and over to train your mind and body. It works with ball-handling in basketball, and etudes on the piano.

 

[kingtidge]

If you can fill your roster with big athletic players, why play zone ? It’s just so stupid to be beholden to a “system”

And hiring a coach who plays the same zone exclusively, after a decade of program decline and top tier players now with zero interest in playing said defensive scheme exclusively is not a forward-thinking strategy for our program.

It would be a futile exercise of doing the same thing and expecting different results IMO.

We need a new coach that will employ M2M (as well as some zone where/when applicable) but the zone shouldn't be the only defense used - period.

That is my hope at least, for whomever the new hire is, when it happens.

 

[TinyManInside]

I think if Hop is the next coach he’ll add full-court pressure and multiple defenses besides the zone. He talked about studying the West Virginia full-court defensive principles at UW

If Hop is the next coach, this is not going to happen. I've watched most of his games at UW and he is almost exclusively zone. He coaches pretty much exactly like Boeheim.

I honestly thought Hop was going to be a fantastic coach and was very happy for him when he got the UW job after he got dunked on with a second fake retirement. But he's been disappointing IMO. I remember talking with him at the very last ABCD in 2007 after the first time he was named coach-in-waiting and he told me he was going to do all the things that you mention in your post, but he hasn't.

Aside: it was an interesting camp watching Mookie Jones and James Sutherland. Mookie was pretty highly regarded at that point. Mike told me that Sutherland was going to be very good but it would take him time to develop (predicted that perfectly). Mookie looked really good that week: astute passer, lots of mid-post turnaround jumpers and mid-range dribble drive pull-ups, not much 3-pt chucking. I was pretty shocked how much different he played when he showed up on campus.

Can't believe I'm talking about recruiting from 15 years ago...

 

[SBU72]

Time to push the 3-point line back a bit again.

How about drawing it halfway between center court and top of the key. That should cut down the #of 3pt shots by oh 50%, maybe.

 

[All4SU]

How about drawing it halfway between center court and top of the key. That should cut down the #of 3pt shots by oh 50%, maybe.

I want it so close to the sideline in the corners that no one with over a size 10 shoe will be able to make a 3-pointer from there.

 

[NKR1978]

When we had big players with unfailing zones, no one complained.

That’s not true. Go back and find some threads from 2012 (meltdowns after close games) and 2013.

 

[realorange]

If Hop is the next coach, this is not going to happen. I've watched most of his games at UW and he is almost exclusively zone. He coaches pretty much exactly like Boeheim.

I honestly thought Hop was going to be a fantastic coach and was very happy for him when he got the UW job after he got dunked on with a second fake retirement. But he's been disappointing IMO. I remember talking with him at the very last ABCD in 2007 after the first time he was named coach-in-waiting and he told me he was going to do all the things that you mention in your post, but he hasn't.

Aside: it was an interesting camp watching Mookie Jones and James Sutherland. Mookie was pretty highly regarded at that point. Mike told me that Sutherland was going to be very good but it would take him time to develop (predicted that perfectly). Mookie looked really good that week: astute passer, lots of mid-post turnaround jumpers and mid-range dribble drive pull-ups, not much 3-pt chucking. I was pretty shocked how much different he played when he showed up on campus.

Can't believe I'm talking about recruiting from 15 years ago...

Those thoughts were why we enjoyed your reports so much, back in the day.

 

[Bayside44]

And hiring a coach who plays the same zone exclusively, after a decade of program decline and top tier players now with zero interest in playing said defensive scheme exclusively is not a forward-thinking strategy for our program.

It would be a futile exercise of doing the same thing and expecting different results IMO.

We need a new coach that will employ M2M (as well as some zone where/when applicable) but the zone shouldn't be the only defense used - period.

That is my hope at least, for whomever the new hire is, when it happens.

I'll side with JB on this. The NBA wants guys that can score.

We aren't losing anyone because we play zone. College man and NBA are completely different animals. NBA is so much switching it's not that foreign from our zone. Meanwhile slapping a guy for 40 minutes isn't NBA defense.