In the last 50 years, how many top 15 kids have we got?

[Knicks411]

Agree with that, but if top level players stayed for 3 or 4 years chances are they would be more spread out amongst the schools than just automatically go to Duke or UK, because those guys aren't going to automatically go there just to sit the bench.

That sounds right, I wonder how that played out in reality. I don't have a list of top recruiting rankings from the 80's or whatever to test it against.

Counterpoint to that is a top recruit is more willing to ride the bench/play limited minutes for a year or two when he knows he'll have 2 years after that to showcase himself

 

[Funk Doc]

That sounds right, I wonder how that played out in reality. I don't have a list of top recruiting rankings from the 80's or whatever to test it against.

Counterpoint to that is a top recruit is more willing to ride the bench/play limited minutes for a year or two when he knows he'll have 2 years after that to showcase himself

But if top level talent rides the bench anywhere, they reach the age of 20, 21, 22 and we all know the narrative there. They are not looked at as favorably when draft time comes around.

 

[Knicks411]

But if top level talent rides the bench anywhere, they reach the age of 20, 21, 22 and we all know the narrative there. They are not looked at as favorably when draft time comes around.

I was talking about the period in the past when pretty much everyone stayed 3 or 4 years, not present day.

 

[Funk Doc]

I was talking about the period in the past when pretty much everyone stayed 3 or 4 years, not present day.

Oh my bad. 100% agree then!

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't care about top 15 guys. I just want kids like Mali and Lydon who have a few elite skills you can win with. The rankings aren't always perfect. The fact that Swider and Carey are ranked this low is odd when they dominate AAU. Not sure what these scouts are looking at.

I looked up Carolina on RSCI; Tony Bradley was 19, Justin Jackson was 9 and theo Pinson 15 in their year, Hicks was 14 in his.

In general, the consensus rankings are pretty good. The guys at the top are almost always the best players. That doesn't mean guys don't fall through the cracks, or that you need top guys to win or make final fours or anything, but I think consensus rankings usually do a pretty decent job, at least at recognizing the very best players

Yeah I agree with all of you guys. It's an imperfect science as well. No question Swider and Carey are seemingly better than their current rankings indicate.

I won't regurgitate the recruiting misses/player development issue too much but, no question, some of what Francis has illustrated recently plays a factor. How that 7 or 8 guys from 2013 until now are either gone, barely contributed, or were seniors who never developed like Roberson. Just hard to overcome that. Those Villanova and Louisville examples are interesting. They stay longer than our guys, developed more, and were great program fits. Louisville at WORST has been what, 23-8, in the past 5 years or so? Throw in UNC too but they still have had rosters littered with draft picks. When PJ Hairston left/kicked out he was drafted even. In this draft tomorrow, Justin Jackson might be a lottery pick and Tony Bradley who barely played will be a bottom of the first round pick most likely (a scout who worked him out was on Sirius earlier today saying so). It still boils down to bringing in as much talent as possible I guess and letting it all sort itself out. I mean UNC the past three years or so have had Paige, Pinson, Berry, Britt, Leslie McDonald, etc. Those are all guards who could play and contributed. A couple of great players in there. Syracuse has been struggling to find guards who can play let alone field a backcourt. It will turn around hopefully but you have to bring in talent.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Billy Owens?

I think Billy 'New' O. was "co-Number 1" with Alonzo Mourning — on the cover of some pre-season magazine i had (not this one). That was a hell of an era, the two best collegiate rival teams getting the two best recruits. Seems like forever ago... Sigh.

 

[Day2]

Does anyone think that being Boeheim may be nearing the twilight of his career, this may change at all and he may take more swings for the seats in hopes of snagging that elusive 2nd title?

I think that's precisely what he did last year.

 

[LaggyJon]

Melo, DC, Steve Thompson, I will throw Pearl in but he actually might not have been in the final rankings. Chris Mac., Winfred Walton lol, Karlton Hines, no laugh there. Two guys that never played for us. Who else?

I had created this recently for something unrelated to this thread, but figured it was worth posting. This is Two Four Seven's consensus rankings of our classes going back to 2003. Before the responses come, I get that:
1) Rankings aren't everything, plenty of highly-ranked players bust and plenty of unheralded ones do well.
2) Two Four Seven's consensus rankings aren't gospel (though, I tend to rely on these more than any other ranking, since they incorporate a broad range of opinions).
3) The data can be a little wonky as you go further back (e.g., I was able to find Riley's 2/4/7 score and stars but not his class ranking).


SU Recruiting

Per this chart, there would be only three back to 2003 (Fab, Donte and Harris). However, if you expanded the rankings range just a little bit, you'd include a bunch more: CMac, Ennis, Coleman, Christmas, MCW, Waiters, Flynn, Watkins. Plus, even though these rankings don't go back any further, I'm pretty confident some guy named Carmelo Something was a top-15 guy a year earlier.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Just seeing the name Karlton Hines gives me the willies. Such a bizarre, sad, and interesting story.

Karlton Hines documentary below. First 17 minutes cover his basketball prowess and connection to Cuse with a Jimmy B interview.

Final 35 minutes about his criminal life.

 

[two3zone]

Karlton Hines documentary below. First 17 minutes cover his basketball prowess and connection to Cuse with a Jimmy B interview.

Final 35 minutes about his criminal life.

Great documentary. Think I've seen in 20 times. Interesting path he took for sure.

 

[jordoo]

Bazley is borderline top 15 now and could be as high as top 5 by the end.

 

[Dcuse]

I had created this recently for something unrelated to this thread, but figured it was worth posting. This is Two Four Seven's consensus rankings of our classes going back to 2003. Before the responses come, I get that:
1) Rankings aren't everything, plenty of highly-ranked players bust and plenty of unheralded ones do well.
2) Two Four Seven's consensus rankings aren't gospel (though, I tend to rely on these more than any other ranking, since they incorporate a broad range of opinions).
3) The data can be a little wonky as you go further back (e.g., I was able to find Riley's 2/4/7 score and stars but not his class ranking).


SU Recruiting

Per this chart, there would be only three back to 2003 (Fab, Donte and Harris). However, if you expanded the rankings range just a little bit, you'd include a bunch more: CMac, Ennis, Coleman, Christmas, MCW, Waiters, Flynn, Watkins. Plus, even though these rankings don't go back any further, I'm pretty confident some guy named Carmelo Something was a top-15 guy a year earlier.

Deshonte Riley a 4 star and Wes Johnson a 2 star. I love it.

 

[orangefog]

Bazley is borderline top 15 now and could be as high as top 5 by the end.

It will be interesting to watch his ranking. Hopefully he finishes up the summer strong. The only problem is, Cal recruitsby ranking. He can't tell if a kid is good unless the number next to his name is in the low teens or better.

 

[Arangeman]

Interesting. Some of those guys definitely underperformed their ranking earlier in their career.

Still there's teams that have won without consensus top 15 guys. Louisville(redacted 2013) is another.

I know Top 15 was the stated metric but is there a huge difference between #15 and #22 or #25? Louisville in 2013 had 2 McDonalds AA. Not top 15 guys, but damn close.

Since 1979 only 2 teams have won a NC without a McD's AA, '02 Terps and '14 Uconn.

 

[chugg21]

Pretty sure the recruiting rankings even in high school are based on nba potential and not college. The high end is always the guys with nba size/athleticism even if they are super raw. The 6'11 bigs like Skal and Diallo a few years ago are always ranked as elite even though they will likely never do anything at all in college because their actual basketball skills are far behind their potential. Better off finding the underrated 6'9 center thats thick and has had to actually learn how to play basketball.

 

[Funk Doc]

Pretty sure the recruiting rankings even in high school are based on nba potential and not college. The high end is always the guys with nba size/athleticism even if they are super raw. The 6'11 bigs like Skal and Diallo a few years ago are always ranked as elite even though they will likely never do anything at all in college because their actual basketball skills are far behind their potential. Better off finding the underrated 6'9 center thats thick and has had to actually learn how to play basketball.

Aka...Kennedy Meeks! Although he wasn't a slouch in the ratings, but not athletic enough to contribute much int he NBA.

 

[chugg21]

Aka...Kennedy Meeks! Although he wasn't a slouch in the ratings, but not athletic enough to contribute much int he NBA.

All of those unathletic, country strong, flat top having ND kids that kill us. Obviously not ideal for the zone but sure enjoyed Arinze/RJ at center being able to put up double doubles instead of a 7 footer that can block 3 shots a game but fumbles the ball every time he touches it.