Inside Clemson's game winning drive vs. Syracuse (what we learned)

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[hungrychuck]

Thought this was a good piece. Though many of us knew going in to Clemson that we had problems at linebacker, this game laid them bare. And this analysis documents them in painful detail.

How quickly those guys improve will say a lot about our season.

 

[shu 49]

I have kinda beat up on them a lot after game cause it was glaring to me but I do have to say that Dino shoulda rested them a bit with shy and Armstrong. Another poster posted that and I thought damn good idea. Our guys were dead tired and poor whit is only 215 for craps sake. Why not give Shy a run in middle of game. Coulda kept the guys fresh in end of game. I am watching this weekend cause if we can’t stop the run we need new guys who are built for that job.

 

[AAM62]

I have kinda beat up on them a lot after game cause it was glaring to me but I do have to say that Dino shoulda rested them a bit with shy and Armstrong. Another poster posted that and I thought damn good idea. Our guys were dead tired and poor whit is only 215 for craps sake. Why not give Shy a run in middle of game. Coulda kept the guys fresh in end of game. I am watching this weekend cause if we can’t stop the run we need new guys who are built for that job.

Probably because he can’t do it. I think the coaches know their personnel. Kid is an athlete but that doesn’t automatically make him an effective linebacker.

 

[SoBristol]

.. . . I am watching this weekend cause if we can’t stop the run we need new guys who are built for that job.

There will be a lot of teams not stopping Clemson's rushing attack. They have two very tough RBs, behind a strong OL. That is a tough measuring stick for our LBs. Particularly when the offense isn't moving the chains and providing the defense with some rest.
And where are we going to get those new guys you want? We can rotate the 4 LBs at the top of our chart, try to get run support from Foster, and also expect our front 4 to make a fair share of tackles. It is what we have, and I expect it will be good enough in most of the remaining games -- if the offense also does its part.

 

[shu 49]

Probably because he can’t do it. I think the coaches know their personnel. Kid is an athlete but that doesn’t automatically make him an effective linebacker.

I partly agree with u but I know quit a few number 2 s that end up better than 1 by just getting chance. Whit will not last a full game against a power team. He is not built for it and they need a break apperantly.

 

[shu 49]

There will be a lot of teams not stopping Clemson's rushing attack. They have two very tough RBs, behind a strong OL. That is a tough measuring stick for our LBs. Particularly when the offense isn't moving the chains and providing the defense with some rest.
And where are we going to get those new guys you want? We can rotate the 4 LBs at the top of our chart, try to get run support from Foster, and also expect our front 4 to make a fair share of tackles. It is what we have, and I expect it will be good enough in most of the remaining games -- if the offense also does its part.

My biggest thing is they should rotate a few times at least going into fourth. Something anyways. What we were doing wasn’t working. Needs to be fixed somehow someway.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Dabo is FOS saying he ran against 8 in the box on their last scoring drive. We never brought more than 7 in the box and it infuriated me:

3rd & 4 we finally creep Cordy into the box (still only 7 in the box) and stop them 1 yard shy:

To be continued in my next post...

 

[ForCuseSake]

1st & 10 after the 4th & 6 conversion and we barely have 7 in the box:

2nd & 11 and our FS is 15 yards off the LOS. Note 6 in the box.

8 men finally on the box on 2nd and goal (and they score):

I know they were gassed because the offense stunk in the second half. I just wanted them to show a safety in the box to tempt Clemson into throwing the ball with their 3rd string true freshman QB.

 

[FrancoPizza]

How much of it was the defense being gassed though? It seemed that Clemson discovered this strategy was going to be successful earlier in the 3rd quarter. I'd say the issue is more that the LBs are raw and not built to stop power running against top teams.

 

[shu 49]

Also saw we mainly played with six man front cause we were worried about outside B.B. screens. Isn’t that what Dino said. I woulda at least played 7 and added Armstrong. Make the fresh throw it and stop run.

 

[Timonen]

1st & 10 after the 4th & 6 conversion and we barely have 7 in the box:

View attachment 141185

2nd & 11 and our FS is 15 yards off the LOS. Note 6 in the box.

View attachment 141186
8 men finally on the box on 2nd and goal (and they score):

View attachment 141187

I know they were gassed because the offense stunk in the second half. I just wanted them to show a safety in the box to tempt Clemson into throwing the ball with their 3rd string true freshman QB.

I was in the crowd bemoaning this to anyone who would listen. SO WEIRD! They could get 4 at will on the ground against what we were showing. Not changing anything guarantees the loss. Cordy still hung out 20 yards away when EVERYONE knew they were running. I was actually opting they’d break one earlier because at least we’d have some clock to come back.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Dabo is FOS saying he ran against 8 in the box on their last scoring drive. We never brought more than 7 in the box and it infuriated me:
View attachment 141181

3rd & 4 we finally creep Cordy into the box (still only 7 in the box) and stop them 1 yard shy:

View attachment 141183

To be continued in my next post...

They were playing with 3 wides.

8 in the box would have meant playing cover zero.

One mistake and it’s 6...

 

[ForCuseSake]

They were playing with 3 wides.

8 in the box would have meant playing cover zero.

One mistake and it’s 6...

Yes, showing 8 in the box would've made it look like we'd left 3 DBs in single coverage to fend for themselves.

This would've baited the Clemson OC (or QB) into trying to beat us through the air with the 3rd string true frosh QB.

Instead we showed mostly 6 & 7 in the box against 5 Clemson OLs, 1 Clemson H-back/TE, and 1 Clemson RB (not to mention their QB). Combine that with the counters they kept running to keep our 2 LBs guessing and it was easy pickings for them. Edit - I wish the safeties had stayed within 10 yards of the LOS at a minimum knowing Clemson was never going to throw unless forced.

I'm sure the talent disparity is the reason why we never loaded up the box. I just wish we went down swinging, so to speak, rather than playing the pre-vent.

 

[PhatOrange]

1st & 10 after the 4th & 6 conversion and we barely have 7 in the box:

View attachment 141185

2nd & 11 and our FS is 15 yards off the LOS. Note 6 in the box.

View attachment 141186
8 men finally on the box on 2nd and goal (and they score):

View attachment 141187

I know they were gassed because the offense stunk in the second half. I just wanted them to show a safety in the box to tempt Clemson into throwing the ball with their 3rd string true freshman QB.

Thanks for posting all these. I knew Dabo was FOS about 8 in the box so I went back and watched it again and it infuriated me all over again with Ward. He was playing not to get beat over the top but literally did nothing to put more guys in the box and slow down the run on that last drive. They were completely helpless trying to stop it and it was painful to watch. I feel pretty good about Scoop and Fred to have defended in those 1v1s but there was little reason to be worried about the pass at the point when the other team was getting 8 yards a pop on the ground.

i hate prevent.

 

[SUbear]

How much of it was the defense being gassed though? It seemed that Clemson discovered this strategy was going to be successful earlier in the 3rd quarter. I'd say the issue is more that the LBs are raw and not built to stop power running against top teams.

The defense played well and did enough to put us in position to win. The offense did little and almost nothing in the second half, this game rested on offense failure not defense.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Thanks for posting all these. I knew Dabo was FOS about 8 in the box so I went back and watched it again and it infuriated me all over again with Ward. He was playing not to get beat over the top but literally did nothing to put more guys in the box and slow down the run on that last drive. They were completely helpless trying to stop it and it was painful to watch. I feel pretty good about Scoop and Fred to have defended in those 1v1s but there was little reason to be worried about the pass at the point when the other team was getting 8 yards a pop on the ground.

i hate prevent.

Yeah, I kept seeing 7 Clemson players (excluding the QB) lining up against 6 of our DL/LBs. Even if our LBs guessed correctly, they're still going up against more players regardless of talent disparity.

All that said, the defense on their last drive didn't lose us the game. The offensive collapse in the 2nd half lost the game.

 

[SUalldway]

I have kinda beat up on them a lot after game cause it was glaring to me but I do have to say that Dino shoulda rested them a bit with shy and Armstrong. Another poster posted that and I thought damn good idea. Our guys were dead tired and poor whit is only 215 for craps sake. Why not give Shy a run in middle of game. Coulda kept the guys fresh in end of game. I am watching this weekend cause if we can’t stop the run we need new guys who are built for that job.

Shy has been underused this season. He's demonstrated his speed to the runner and tackling skills as a leader on STs for 2 seasons. IMO he should have been used in the 2nd half when Etienne was having a field day.

 

[upperdeck]

one thing this showed is that if you have a good oline you can play the 4wide game and force the D into tough spots.. We do the same and force teams to go single high and still dont create a ton of running space. Our oline still has a aways to go. but if you have better deep threats you can force 2 high safeties and really have the numbers game.. tawa would really kill it this year.

 

[shu 49]

I agree and some people shine more in big moments.

 

[Dino2112]

what we learned we are close, we just need depth ...not just depth but if we had guys to rotate maybe we are talking a win. Most people don't see our D as good (lets fix the big plays) but we are good out side 1 Q ...

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Yes, showing 8 in the box would've made it look like we'd left 3 DBs in single coverage to fend for themselves.

This would've baited the Clemson OC (or QB) into trying to beat us through the air with the 3rd string true frosh QB.

Instead we showed mostly 6 & 7 in the box against 5 Clemson OLs, 1 Clemson H-back/TE, and 1 Clemson RB (not to mention their QB). Combine that with the counters they kept running to keep our 2 LBs guessing and it was easy pickings for them. Edit - I wish the safeties had stayed within 10 yards of the LOS at a minimum knowing Clemson was never going to throw unless forced.

I'm sure the talent disparity is the reason why we never loaded up the box. I just wish we went down swinging, so to speak, rather than playing the pre-vent.

Just to play devil’s advocate for a minute:

It did force them to execute all the way down the field. And we did force them into that one 4th and 6. And when the kid needed to make a throw, he made a helluva throw.

Who is to say that he could not have done same against cover zero. And then, one mistake and it’s see-ya.

And if we make that play on 4th and 6, then chances are we are all just sobering up today and this discussion never happens.

 

[skurey]

Just to play devil’s advocate for a minute:

It did force them to execute all the way down the field. And we did force them into that one 4th and 6. And when the kid needed to make a throw, he made a helluva throw.

Who is to say that he could not have done same against cover zero. And then, one mistake and it’s see-ya.

And if we make that play on 4th and 6, then chances are we are all just sobering up today and this discussion never happens.

If they hit a long pass then we still have time for a game winning drive.

Rather let their 3rd string QB try to win it.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

If they hit a long pass then we still have time for a game winning drive.

Rather let their 3rd string QB try to win it.

We had 7 possessions in the second half, before the last drive, and our longest drive was 27 yards.

We were not driving that ball down the field. Our D had to preserve the lead to win the game.