Inside Clemson's game winning drive vs. Syracuse (what we learned)

[ForCuseSake]

Just to play devil’s advocate for a minute:

It did force them to execute all the way down the field. And we did force them into that one 4th and 6. And when the kid needed to make a throw, he made a helluva throw.

Who is to say that he could not have done same against cover zero. And then, one mistake and it’s see-ya.

And if we make that play on 4th and 6, then chances are we are all just sobering up today and this discussion never happens.

I see your point about forcing them to execute the length of the field and the prospect of giving up 6 on one mistake.

I agree - Clemson 3rd stringer made a money throw on 4th & 6.

I would’ve liked to see how many more throws that kid could’ve made or if he’d toss another pick like he did earlier in the game.

I don’t envy Ward and the coaching staff because it’s pick your poison with the #3 team.

I guess I prefer they tried to put it all on the rookie rather than the RBs who battered us all day.

I agree with your other post that our offense wasn’t driving for a TD against their D.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I see your point about forcing them to execute the length of the field and the prospect of giving up 6 on one mistake.

I agree - Clemson 3rd stringer made a money throw on 4th & 6.

I would’ve liked to see how many more throws that kid could’ve made or if he’d toss another pick like he did earlier in the game.

I don’t envy Ward and the coaching staff because it’s pick your poison with the #3 team.

I guess I prefer they tried to put it all on the rookie rather than the RBs who battered us all day.

I agree with your other post that our offense wasn’t driving for a TD against their D.

Yeah, I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just presenting an alternate view.

It was a tough call.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Yeah, I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just presenting an alternate view.

It was a tough call.

Not quite the USMNT equivalent of Arena parking the bus vs Jurgy-cakes attack at all costs.

(thats the closest futbol analogy I could come up with. )

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Not quite the USMNT equivalent of Arena parking the bus vs Jurgy-cakes attack at all costs.

(thats the closest futbol analogy I could come up with. )

LOL...

It’s like what we tried to do to Brazil in that recent friendly.

Press em high...

 

[Ish88888]

Probably because he can’t do it. I think the coaches know their personnel. Kid is an athlete but that doesn’t automatically make him an effective linebacker.

True, no it doesn't, but i bet he is better than whitner. Its worth a shot. We have been playing safety sized lbs for years and they get run over...run over when in position tbat is. These lbs have been protected by bad competition until Clemson.

 

[AAM62]

True, no it doesn't, but i bet he is better than whitner. Its worth a shot. We have been playing safety sized lbs for years and they get run over...run over when in position tbat is. These lbs have been protected by bad competition until Clemson.

LB is a very cerebral position. That’s probably why the senior with experience is there.

 

[shu 49]

LB is a very cerebral position. That’s probably why the senior with experience is there.

But Shy is a redshirt jr as Bam reminded me. We are putting in freshman every to try and give them some experience so why not shy. One series and see how he does. Then work from there. Also part of the problem is DC is also backers coach and cause he is on field he ha s a hard time seeing if his guys are tired. Next year in same situation we should go man to man on each four wideouts and bring extra backer in. Cisco Trill scoop Fred man up Trill and Cisco inside other two out. 7 in the box and come down hill and mash people. Getting ahead of myself sorry.

 

[SmilinBob]

On that 4th down pass the Clemson qb made you could see Cisco mad at himself...it's almost like he knew but hesitated and kicked himself. He'll get the next one, you watch.

 

[Chip]

Just my opinion, but if you’re playing a 3rd string QB in his first real action, in a big pressure situation for him and the team, I think you have to make him beat you with his arm.

I know he did it on that 4th down play, but could he do it consistently?

 

[SmilinBob]

Just my opinion, but if you’re playing a 3rd string QB in his first real action, in a big pressure situation for him and the team, I think you have to make him beat you with his arm.

I know he did it on that 4th down play, but could he do it consistently?

That's a tough call...could open up a guy quickly if he happens to see him open but yeah, it might have been a blitz to force a quick bad decision as well. We see what the alternative was but still...faith in his 3/4th down D that has been good all year, I could see why they played it the way they did.

 

[Bambrewer]

But Shy is a redshirt jr as Bam reminded me. We are putting in freshman every to try and give them some experience so why not shy. One series and see how he does. Then work from there. Also part of the problem is DC is also backers coach and cause he is on field he ha s a hard time seeing if his guys are tired. Next year in same situation we should go man to man on each four wideouts and bring extra backer in. Cisco Trill scoop Fred man up Trill and Cisco inside other two out. 7 in the box and come down hill and mash people. Getting ahead of myself sorry.

Shy is actually a red shirt senior. Lol. Listen I know I’m his dad and think he is the greatest so I’m not going to rant... but I will give you the facts. Shy has played 14 snaps at middle linebacker this year and had 4 tackles on those snaps one for loss. He is an excellent open field tackler as his special teams play has shown. ( his tackles are down on st this year as he is double almost every play this year because teams are actually game planning for him on those kicks and punts) ward put him in on the goal line stand in the clemson game ( first score they had I believe) and the run went to the outside and the de was washed out allowing the score. Ward put him in there because he knows he can stop the run. Shy in the games he has played has graded out at 95. Limited snaps but he is grading almost perfect on the plays he is in for. That’s hustle position and made plays is how the grades are figured. I don’t know why ward doesn’t put shy in... honestly I wish I did . But I can tell you he isn’t putting any of the young guys in either. He needs to start trusting and giving people a shot and let the learn and grow or...1 he is going to have hurt and tired linebackers in the next few weeks and we saw the same colapse last year. 2 he is going to have to put in a guy with limited or no experience if some one goes down. 3 next year he loses whit and Guthrie and will have 2 no experience players out there and the same situation next year. If this year continues as is I don’t see Shy playing his red shirt senior year here. He is very frustrated at how things are going. He feels he is doing everything right and is putting in the work and seeing no return. Other coaches on the team have spoke to shy and told him he is doing great. Ward has told Shy he wants him back for next year. But I’m not sure Shy will do it when he hears on Thursday you will play this week be ready and then never sees more than 4 or so snaps on Saturday.

 

[SmilinBob]

Tough to watch Bam as I'm a huge fan of rotating players for rest and experience. Thank you for staying classy about this, I know it's hard to do.

 

[bcubs9497]

Shy is actually a red shirt senior. Lol. Listen I know I’m his dad and think he is the greatest so I’m not going to rant... but I will give you the facts. Shy has played 14 snaps at middle linebacker this year and had 4 tackles on those snaps one for loss. He is an excellent open field tackler as his special teams play has shown. ( his tackles are down on st this year as he is double almost every play this year because teams are actually game planning for him on those kicks and punts) ward put him in on the goal line stand in the clemson game ( first score they had I believe) and the run went to the outside and the de was washed out allowing the score. Ward put him in there because he knows he can stop the run. Shy in the games he has played has graded out at 95. Limited snaps but he is grading almost perfect on the plays he is in for. That’s hustle position and made plays is how the grades are figured. I don’t know why ward doesn’t put shy in... honestly I wish I did . But I can tell you he isn’t putting any of the young guys in either. He needs to start trusting and giving people a shot and let the learn and grow or...1 he is going to have hurt and tired linebackers in the next few weeks and we saw the same colapse last year. 2 he is going to have to put in a guy with limited or no experience if some one goes down. 3 next year he loses whit and Guthrie and will have 2 no experience players out there and the same situation next year. If this year continues as is I don’t see Shy playing his red shirt senior year here. He is very frustrated at how things are going. He feels he is doing everything right and is putting in the work and seeing no return. Other coaches on the team have spoke to shy and told him he is doing great. Ward has told Shy he wants him back for next year. But I’m not sure Shy will do it when he hears on Thursday you will play this week be ready and then never sees more than 4 or so snaps on Saturday.

Ugh. Sorry.

 

[bnoro]

True, no it doesn't, but i bet he is better than whitner. Its worth a shot. We have been playing safety sized lbs for years and they get run over...run over when in position tbat is. These lbs have been protected by bad competition until Clemson.

Good to see you know he's better than Whitner. Why don't you call up Dino and tell him?

Oh by the way, you realize that Kielan Whitner leads the ACC in solo tackles, right?

 

[SoBristol]

Shy is actually a red shirt senior. Lol. Listen I know I’m his dad and think he is the greatest so I’m not going to rant... …..

As a dad, you are entitled to rant. Shy is an important part of our coverage teams -- and our specials are among the best in the nation. I favor rotations, & more opportunities for 2nd unit guys, but it is hard to knock the staff of a 4 and 1 team when the only loss is at #3 Clemson. The number of teams who have gone into Clemson and done better than losing by 3? Since the beginning of the 2016 season -- only Pitt.

Still, if there was a way to stop the run in that decisive Clemson drive …..

 

[Bambrewer]

As a dad, you are entitled to rant. Shy is an important part of our coverage teams -- and our specials are among the best in the nation. I favor rotations, & more opportunities for 2nd unit guys, but it is hard to knock the staff of a 4 and 1 team when the only loss is at #3 Clemson. The number of teams who have gone into Clemson and done better than losing by 3? Since the beginning of the 2016 season -- only Pitt.

Still, if there was a way to stop the run in that decisive Clemson drive …..

I realize that they are doing well and I don’t fault the play calling. I guess my only point is you can’t complain about depth and experience when you don’t put back ups in when the situation is right. What if Shy played the 2nd quarter a few snaps and a few in the third or 4th and that final drive the starters were fresh... maybe they stop them. Who knows maybe shy gives up a big play and they lose from that. I just know last year after clemson Paris and Zaire were beat up and tired and the defense suffered for it. Hard to play every defenseive snap and go full out all season

 

[Bambrewer]

As a dad, you are entitled to rant. Shy is an important part of our coverage teams -- and our specials are among the best in the nation. I favor rotations, & more opportunities for 2nd unit guys, but it is hard to knock the staff of a 4 and 1 team when the only loss is at #3 Clemson. The number of teams who have gone into Clemson and done better than losing by 3? Since the beginning of the 2016 season -- only Pitt.

Still, if there was a way to stop the run in that decisive Clemson drive …..

And thank you I appreciate the kind words for shy

 

[upperdeck]

they are playing the starters less on some ST though which is good to see.

 

[SoBristol]

I realize that they are doing well and I don’t fault the play calling. I guess my only point is you can’t complain about depth and experience when you don’t put back ups in when the situation is right. What if Shy played the 2nd quarter a few snaps and a few in the third or 4th and that final drive the starters were fresh... maybe they stop them. Who knows maybe shy gives up a big play and they lose from that. I just know last year after clemson Paris and Zaire were beat up and tired and the defense suffered for it. Hard to play every defenseive snap and go full out all season

I am not disagreeing with any of that -- and as I wrote, I would like to see the prime 2nd unit guys get more opportunities. Interesting to see the rotations at RB and on the DL, Harris working in at WR, a spare OL or two seeing the field, and rotations in the secondary as well with the younger players.

Why not more at the LB spots? It is a puzzle, because there does not seem to be a big drop from the starters to Shy and Armstrong. I believe, though, that we will see more of Shy, Armstrong, Berry, Jonathan, and Ruff as the season progresses, depending on situations.

 

[shu 49]

Good to see you know he's better than Whitner. Why don't you call up Dino and tell him?

Oh by the way, you realize that Kielan Whitner leads the ACC in solo tackles, right?

Bnaro I kinda gotta disagree with u whether whit has most tackles or not. Shy should be getting some run unless he is grading badly. Whit is a safety. Not built to play there. Great kid but. Shy has done his part be the bomber on s t and he is a great athlete what does it hurt to give him some more plays I’m not saying 50-50 but 15 to 25 plays depending on Shy. How would it hurt.

 

[bnoro]

Bnaro I kinda gotta disagree with u whether whit has most tackles or not. Shy should be getting some run unless he is grading badly. Whit is a safety. Not built to play there. Great kid but. Shy has done his part be the bomber on s t and he is a great athlete what does it hurt to give him some more plays I’m not saying 50-50 but 15 to 25 plays depending on Shy. How would it hurt.

How can you disagree with statistics? Whitner literally has the most solo tackles in the ACC. He's not a safety, he's a linebacker in this defense and has done a pretty damn good job this year at that position.

Nothing against Shy, but Whitner has been a very solid tackler and has done a good job with his assigments.

The Clemson game does nothing to change my opinion there as they have a great OL and RBs.

 

[upperdeck]

sounds like a question for SWC to pose when he gets back from his trip.

the same question we have why Harris who has been super productive doesnt get a ton of run at WR. Could Shy would be in the same spot as whitner a player without a ton of protuctive snaps playing as a starter he SR yr?

 

[shu 49]

How can you disagree with statistics? Whitner literally has the most solo tackles in the ACC. He's not a safety, he's a linebacker in this defense and has done a pretty damn good job this year at that position

Nothin against Shy, but Whitner has been a very solid tackler and has done a good job with his assigments.

The Clemson game does nothing to change my opinion there as they have a great OL and RBs.

Ok I will go over tape and point out when he miss stepped or took wrong shoulder or completely missed gap assignment. I don’t wanna watch that tape again but I will. How do u not see bnaro. U know more football than I do. How do u not see it. Have u rewatched it yet. I’m trying not too but ur making me. I played dline but my son was lb so I paid attention to what was taught at only hs level. Now do they teach ass backwards from hs cause if they do ok. I always agree with ya but stats don’t always mean anything. I know whit blitzed into 4tackles alone. From watching in a bar but still. If I am wrong ur the shiiiiiiiaaaaat. If not u need to be nice lol. Good luck