interesting cooney stat

[Cusefan0307]

just because you've seen people at the dome doesn't mean that I want them to lose. You're not better than this

I was going to like this post, but wasn't sure where you were going with your last sentence......I can debate without arguing. I know what Cooney's numbers are, I'm more concerned with Gbinije as he is our best player and hasn't produced as the PG at an ACC level.

 

[Knicks411]

Since I respect your objective opinion could you please give me your ranking of all Syracuse guards who played decent minutes since 2003. You can use whatever metric you want as I think your fair.

Ha that's quite the request.
What is the list we're looking at
Gmac, Edelin, Wright, Devendorf, Rautins, Flynn, Scoop, Dion, Triche, MCW, Ennis, G, Trevor; is there anyone major I'm missing?

Trevor is definitely toward the back end, but he's also better than guys who weren't even good enough to get major minutes; Mookie, McCroskey. Wright was definitely worse. If you consider the amount of minutes Kaleb played last year enough to qualify as decent, I would say he's worse as well. Other than those 2, yeah, he's probably at the bottom of the list I guess? M y biggest issue with Cooney is he's just thrust into a role he's not good enough for. The guy shouldn't be playing 36+ minutes a night, but we don't really have any better options. He also hasn't really played with a good true PG aside from the one year with Tyler, which doesn't help.

(Not gonna rank them all right now, but I think i would have Tyler at the top of the list).

 

[Cusefan0307]

Ha that's quite the request.
What is the list we're looking at
Gmac, Edelin, Wright, Devendorf, Rautins, Flynn, Scoop, Dion, Triche, MCW, Ennis, G, Trevor; is there anyone major I'm missing?

Trevor is definitely toward the back end, but he's also better than guys who weren't even good enough to get major minutes; Mookie, McCroskey. Wright was definitely worse. If you consider the amount of minutes Kaleb played last year enough to qualify as decent, I would say he's worse as well. Other than those 2, yeah, he's probably at the bottom of the list I guess? M y biggest issue with Cooney is he's just thrust into a role he's not good enough for. The guy shouldn't be playing 36+ minutes a night, but we don't really have any better options. He also hasn't really played with a good true PG aside from the one year with Tyler, which doesn't help.

(Not gonna rank them all right now, but I think i would have Tyler at the top of the list).

Better than MCW? That's tough, maybe I'm blinded by his current NBA production.

 

[Alsacs]

Ha that's quite the request.
What is the list we're looking at
Gmac, Edelin, Wright, Devendorf, Rautins, Flynn, Scoop, Dion, Triche, MCW, Ennis, G, Trevor; is there anyone major I'm missing?

Trevor is definitely toward the back end, but he's also better than guys who weren't even good enough to get major minutes; Mookie, McCroskey. Wright was definitely worse. If you consider the amount of minutes Kaleb played last year enough to qualify as decent, I would say he's worse as well. Other than those 2, yeah, he's probably at the bottom of the list I guess? M y biggest issue with Cooney is he's just thrust into a role he's not good enough for. The guy shouldn't be playing 36+ minutes a night, but we don't really have any better options. He also hasn't really played with a good true PG aside from the one year with Tyler, which doesn't help.

(Not gonna rank them all right now, but I think i would have Tyler at the top of the list).

Fair enough don't need an exact ranking. I forget Kaleb as well. I would have no qualm anyway you wanted to evaluate. I had Cooney above Wright and Mookie. I would include Kaleb as well though I forget him.

 

[Millhouse]

HE RUNS OUT OF GAS

The 6 player rotation is hell on players as the season wears on, especially ones who run around like a soccer player all game long like Cooney.

that and opposing familiarity with the zone in general. he has destroyed the pac 12 and big 10. 46% in 10 games

only got to play 1 game vs the big 12 - he might've torched them too

but i agree about the minutes. the february swoon isn't just cooney, he just has higher highs and lower lows

 

[Knicks411]

Better than MCW? That's tough, maybe I'm blinded by his current NBA production.

I think so? I just went back and double checked the stats; Tyler slumped toward the end, his true shooting was barely better than MCWs (51-49). Tyler was better at protecting the ball; he was a much better offensive player. Obviously the size and length MCW offered on D offset a lot of that. I'm going to cop out a little and say that I didn't realize Tyler's shooting was as bad as it was and hedge a little, but push comes to shove I still think I'd have taken him by a little.

 

[Alsacs]

I would put Dion first in my rankings. He was the all-around best guard we had this past decade IMO.

 

[Madbiker]

So when he plays against better athletes that stick to his shorts and contest his shots, his shooting % is way lower. Shocking.

 

[br801]

Why do we need another thread? This is just ridiculous. We are 0-3 and it's Cooney's fault apparently. Ridiculous. I agree with you on a lot of things, but this is one of the least intelligent posts you have ever made. Why bring up previous years in 2016? I think you're just trying to get a reaction out of people.

Cooney threads are the Lay's potato chips of this board.

 

[Ozcuse]

Cooney threads are the Lay's potato chips of this board.

I would say they are more like heroin. In that case is Millhouse our Cooney dealer?

 

[Ghost]

22nd over a 20 year period. Not bad. No wonder opposing coaches focus on him.

I think he's 22nd out of 22. That makes him the worst in 20 years... Am I reading that wrong? That's the extreme opposite of not bad.

 

[br801]

I would say they are more like heroin. In that case is Millhouse our Cooney dealer?

No, Millhouse is just some low level guy making a delivery. He is far from the real problem here.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

that and opposing familiarity with the zone in general. he has destroyed the pac 12 and big 10. 46% in 10 games

only got to play 1 game vs the big 12 - he might've torched them too

but i agree about the minutes. the february swoon isn't just cooney, he just has higher highs and lower lows

I think you mean to say opposing familiarity with SU offensive sets that JB runs. Not sure why other teams having knowledge of our zone would impact Cooney's shooting performances.

 

[tbonezone]

No, Millhouse is just some low level guy making a delivery. He is far from the real problem here.

and are cusefan0307 and fairfax using the same burner phone?

 

[Millhouse]

I think you mean to say opposing familiarity with SU offensive sets that JB runs. Not sure why other teams having knowledge of our zone would impact Cooney's shooting performances.

yeah, i meant familiarity with our offense. that mistake was just habit!

 

[Brooky03]

He shoots better against worse teams. Is this surprising. Wouldn't this be expected of most players?

 

[SUFan44]

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/leaders/fg3-pct-player-career.html

22nd over a 20 year period. Not bad. No wonder opposing coaches focus on him.

There's another way to look at it, too: 22nd out of 22 players that qualified given the parameters of that list. 200 3's made & 2.0 3FGM per game is a lot, and requires a lot of shooting.

 

[Cusefan0307]

and are cusefan0307 and fairfax using the same burner phone?

Sadly, the weather where I am does NOT look like that.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I think he's 22nd out of 22. That makes him the worst in 20 years... Am I reading that wrong? That's the extreme opposite of not bad.

Yep, he's last among players that have made 200+ 3's and 2.0 per game. While that overall % isn't horrible, he's still the worst of this group.

 

[Alsacs]

To make 200 3pt shots you have to play 3 years of college basketball. Andy Rautins and Gerry McNamara are the only other recent last decade Syracuse guards who would have qualified for that list.
Rautins .374 would have ranked 16th of 23
GMac .354 would have ranked 21st of 23.*

*GMac made 400 3's that gets him a lot more respect IMO. GMac was underrated IMO.

 

[SUFan44]

To make 200 3pt shots you have to play 3 years of college basketball. Andy Rautins and Gerry McNamara are the only other recent last decade Syracuse guards who would have qualified for that list.
Rautins .374 would have ranked 16th of 23
GMac .354 would have ranked 21st of 23.*

*GMac made 400 3's that gets him a lot more respect IMO. GMac was underrated IMO.

A few more numbers:

Rautins shot 40.7% as a senior. 36.6% as a junior. 35.6% as a sophomore. Improvement every year, including a great senior season in which he also led the team in assists.

GMac led the team in assists all four of his years, including 200+ as a senior. In addition to leading the team in scoring and doing basically everything.

Cooney's progression: 37.5% as a sophomore. 30.9% as a junior. 35.7% as a senior. Erratic, to say the least. And his assist numbers pale in comparison to the other two.

 

[Brooky03]

A few more numbers:

Rautins shot 40.7% as a senior. 36.6% as a junior. 35.6% as a sophomore. Improvement every year, including a great senior season in which he also led the team in assists.

GMac led the team in assists all four of his years, including 200+ as a senior. In addition to leading the team in scoring and doing basically everything.

Cooney's progression: 37.5% as a sophomore. 30.9% as a junior. 35.7% as a senior. Erratic, to say the least. And his assist numbers pale in comparison to the other two.

Both were clearly better than Cooney is, no argument, but they had the advantage of playing with/being a PG. That explains the assist numbers primarily. I know Rautins wasn't always a PG, but he handled PG duties a lot as an upperclassman.

Trevor had his best season behind the arc when we had a true PG. He slumped last year when we had KJ running point and he's doing okay this year with a SF playing PG. We'll see how he finishes out the season, but Trevor really has been unfortunate with the pieces around him.

 

[rrlbees]

The minimums are also pretty high, how many guys have even made 200 3's? dude does play a ton of minutes, and some of that is absolutely to his credit. The other way to look at it is of all the guys who have made thata many shots in the ACC, he has the worst % of any of them.

It's 1.5 per game over a career.

 

[SUFan44]

Both were clearly better than Cooney is, no argument, but they had the advantage of playing with/being a PG. That explains the assist numbers primarily. I know Rautins wasn't always a PG, but he handled PG duties a lot as an upperclassman.

Trevor had his best season behind the arc when we had a true PG. He slumped last year when we had KJ running point and he's doing okay this year with a SF playing PG. We'll see how he finishes out the season, but Trevor really has been unfortunate with the pieces around him.

I would say that being the PG and having to facilitate, while also keeping your shooting averages up, is more difficult to do.

Agreed he would benefit from a better PG, but I think he'd also benefit from not taking so many ill-advised shots.

 

[Brooky03]

Cooney does have the worst % of those ACC guys but it's still a good percentage. At 34.5%, you're still a guy who should shoot a 3 anytime there is a sliver of opportunity. There's a little more that goes into it, but the numbers are in your favor and the team's favor.