Is anybody mad?

[two3zone]

If we were dominated by a school (it’s by two schools now) over and over and over this fanbase would be livid, it’s like we’ve gotten used to this and there is no passion or am I seeing this differently?

Maybe life changes but I don’t think I’ve been really upset by a game in years, are we conditioned to this now?

 

[Cusefan0307]

If we had the same coach I would be angry like I had been, but we don’t so I’m not going to get angry at Red this year. He gets another year to get his guys.

And it’s really 3 schools that have Washington Generaled us in UVA, Duke, and UNC.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

If we were dominated by a school (it’s by two schools now) over and over and over this fanbase would be livid, it’s like we’ve gotten used to this and there is no passion or am I seeing this differently?

Maybe life changes but I don’t think I’ve been really upset by a game in years, are we conditioned to this now?

Let's see: 1) We had a 5 game win streak. 2) One of our players was just voted CPOW. 3) Our bench scored 50+ points in a couple games. 4) Down 2 points at halftime.

I think a lot of people are pissed, namely starting with Red Autry.

 

[two3zone]

If we had the same coach I would be angry like I had been, but we don’t so I’m not going to get angry at Red this year. He gets another year to get his guys.

And it’s really 3 schools that have Washington Generaled us in UVA, Duke, and UNC.

 

[two3zone]

Let's see: 1) We had a 5 game win streak. 2) One of our players was just voted CPOW. 3) Our bench scored 50+ points in a couple games. 4) Down 2 points at halftime.

I think a lot of people are pissed, namely starting with Red Autry.

Im just talking about in general, the board meltdowns are few and far between these days.

 

[Fly Rodder]

are we conditioned to this now?

Yes.

1. We're 4-14 against Duke in 10 years we've been in the ACC and the average point differential has been -10.
2. 11 games were either at Duke or neutral (e.g., neutral like Greensboro - lol).
3. During the current 9 game losing streak, we've lost by an average of 15 points.
4. Our four wins have been by an average of 3 points.
5. Two of those four wins were OT games which can honestly go either way.

They've been waaaaaaaay better. And frankly, that's on JAB.

ETA: looking at the averages, they've beaten us on 2 point FGs, averaging a 57% FG% and averaging 4 more rebounds. FTs are pretty even and so are threes. Zone'd 'em.

 

[djcon57]

If we had the same coach I would be angry like I had been, but we don’t so I’m not going to get angry at Red this year. He gets another year to get his guys.

And it’s really 3 schools that have Washington Generaled us in UVA, Duke, and UNC.

Yep. The people angry at Red right now would be thrilled if we got Ed Cooley and went 7-7, 0-3 in conference like he is now, I'm sure...so what does it matter...anyone reasonable knows this is a process.

Like the things we complained about early in the season "OMG we can't inbounds the ball"...did anyone mention we had an inbounds play result in a dunk?

We just dont have the guns to stick with the better teams, but we need to stop disappearing at the end of games vs these teams and that's on Red to figure out

 

[PoppyHart]

There used to be stretches in the 80's & 90's where we'd lose maybe 1 game by double-digits a year, on average. Since 2015, it's been about 6-7 games per year I believe.

 

[Brooky03]

If we were dominated by a school (it’s by two schools now) over and over and over this fanbase would be livid, it’s like we’ve gotten used to this and there is no passion or am I seeing this differently?

Maybe life changes but I don’t think I’ve been really upset by a game in years, are we conditioned to this now?

I’ve been resigned to it for a while now. I think it all started with that St. John’s debacle in the Dome, for me. Watching the team just not try and not care they were getting embarrassed by a less than mediocre team was infuriating. I got all my anger out then.

I know this is different than the premise of getting rekt year after year by Duke and UNC but I’d need us to start consistently taking care of business against the turds to start caring about the good teams.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Yep. The people angry at Red right now would be thrilled if we got Ed Cooley and went 7-7, 0-3 in conference like he is now, I'm sure...so what does it matter...anyone reasonable knows this is a process.

My biggest fear with an internal hire was a continuation of the previous HC's style of play. I'm very happy Red has forged his own way on defense and it shows. The offense ... eh. jury is still out, but there have been improvements. It can still be real ugly ISO ball with no fall back plan to get players open looks. The roster is incomplete and a couple of key positions had to be band-aided and while they have been not good, I don't pin too much on the staff for those. I have no idea what our budget was and how short we were, but Hunter Dickinson would have been a real nice addition to this team.

I need to see some serious changes on the roster to be optimistic about beating top-20 teams next season and changing the decade-long SU basketball narrative.

Our four losses this season have been by 17, 19, 22, and 20 points. Need to do a lot better than that to even sniff the bubble this season.

 

[SWC75]

It's going to take a while to get back to where we were a decade a ago I believe we can do it under Red.

 

[Brooky03]

The move to the ACC explains some of this, too, imo.

I’d never stop caring about performances against UConn, GTown, Nova, etc. if we had stayed in the Big East all along. Doesn’t matter how bad it got. The ACC is and has been just meh, in that regard. I guess I care about how we do against Pitt year over year, but that’s it.

 

[BomberOrange]

Im just talking about in general, the board meltdowns are few and far between these days.

For me it has been blatantly obvious that we do not have the talent that we grew accustomed to in the 80's/90's up through 2013. Besides the couple of fun runs, last 10 years have conditioned me to not really get worked up about it. I am confident Red will get us back but it won't happen overnight.

 

[cusefan88]

Mad about what? The roster construction will improve over the off-season and Autry will improve as an in-game coach. The staff is already back to signing top-50 players and I'm sure will look for an excellent shooting SF in the portal.

 

[FrancoPizza]

He gets another year to get his guys.

He already had a year and chose not to trim the fat. I don’t understand why he gets a pass for this year. Y’all acting like JB was fired in December and Red was just promoted from interim status.

 

[hoopsupstate]

How do you expect anything different? Duke recruits at an elite level. They are recruiting over everyone. I’m not sure if anyone on SU would start at Duke, including Mintz. The talent level is night and day different. Do you think If Red coached Duke’s roster he would lose to SU? I don’t think so. Red needs at least two or three recruiting classes to change the dynamics at SU.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He already had a year and chose not to trim the fat. I don’t understand why he gets a pass for this year. Y’all acting like JB was fired in December and Red was just promoted from interim status.

What new coach is doing better than Red this year that you would prefer?

 

[Fly Rodder]

He already had a year and chose not to trim the fat. I don’t understand why he gets a pass for this year. Y’all acting like JB was fired in December and Red was just promoted from interim status.

He dealt with some last minute subtractions and the band-aid replacements have not been pretty.

I do think everyone is learning that a few guys are not likely to improve enough to warrant minutes next season, but they're all we have this season. I'm withholding further opinion on the roster until May.

 

[pwong]

My biggest fear with an internal hire was a continuation of the previous HC's style of play. I'm very happy Red has forged his own way on defense and it shows. The offense ... eh. jury is still out, but there have been improvements. It can still be real ugly ISO ball with no fall back plan to get players open looks. The roster is incomplete and a couple of key positions had to be band-aided and while they have been not good, I don't pin too much on the staff for those. I have no idea what our budget was and how short we were, but Hunter Dickinson would have been a real nice addition to this team.

I need to see some serious changes on the roster to be optimistic about beating top-20 teams next season and changing the decade-long SU basketball narrative.

Our four losses this season have been by 17, 19, 22, and 20 points. Need to do a lot better than that to even sniff the bubble this season.

I thought Straughn was hired to be an X and O’s guy and a recruiter. Right now, it seems like he doesn’t have much of an influence on the offense outside of a couple plays early on in the non con.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

He already had a year and chose not to trim the fat. I don’t understand why he gets a pass for this year. Y’all acting like JB was fired in December and Red was just promoted from interim status.

Last year's instant turnaround darling Jerome Tang isn't doing very well this year, just a couple good wins, three losses to bubble-type teams and needing OT to get past two schedule filler patsies.

He also called out the fans for what he thought was poor support and there are rumors of him clashing with Kansas State's administration over their decision to boot one of his best players after he was arrested for disorderly conduct. Nothing is guaranteed and I don't know what you were watching if you thought that JB welcomed input from his assistants at any point in the last 10 years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He dealt with some last minute subtractions and the band-aid replacements have not been pretty.

I do think everyone is learning that a few guys are not likely to improve enough to warrant minutes next season, but they're all we have this season. I'm withholding further opinion on the roster until May.

There's some serious 180-ing being done by some disingenuous fans here. Say Red ran off Hima, Carey, Bell and Taylor in the offseason with Benny's early season behavior then we are down to 8 scholarship players which includes Patterson who's unplayable.

It wasn't like we were getting a bunch of other guys to come here.

Maybe the worst roster moves we made were letting the guys who were here leave.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Maybe the worst roster moves we made were letting the guys who were here leave.

I think this is accurate, but I don't know enough of the details (and I would wager that very few outside of the staff actually do) to make an evaluation. Hindsight being 20/20, I think the gamble that Jesse wasn't worth the extra NIL money and NM would be good enough was a poor decision. Not keeping or bringing in a shooting guard and gambling on CB/Taylor to pick up the slack seems to be a poor decision. Again. I don't know what the calculus there was (NIL related shortfall*, expectations, or whatever).

*(For example, if we had an NIL cap and spent the bulk of it on 1 plus two other players versus one plus two different players, then it's probably not working out as expected).

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think this is accurate, but I don't know enough of the details (and I would wager that very few outside of the staff actually do) to make an evaluation. Hindsight being 20/20, I think the gamble that Jesse wasn't worth the extra NIL money and NM would be good enough was a poor decision. Not keeping or bringing in a shooting guard and gambling on CB/Taylor to pick up the slack seems to be a poor decision. Again. I don't know what the calculus there was (NIL related shortfall*, expectations, or whatever).

*(For example, if we had an NIL cap and spent the bulk of it on 1 plus two other players one plus two different players, then it's probably not working out as expected).

A lot of the vitriol seems to be going Bell and Taylors way, but the bigger issue is Benny and JJ have mostly underperformed against their expectations.

 

[Red Holzman]

Not mad-
New coach, a more exciting offense, and better athletes on the floor.
A young, rebuilding team with some missing pieces that can be filled next season.
It's been interesting and sometimes fun vs previous several seasons.
A spanking by Duke never welcome, but glad a new chapter has opened and have optimism.

 

[phil77]

I am more mad about the offseason than the actual product on the court. Last year it was clear to everyone that we needed a forward that could play at this level and Red did nothing to fix that or support that. Also McLeod was and is terrible and shouldn't have been added to the roster especially since his play was to move away from a zone defense.