Is it Frank or not?

[Townie72]

Ithaca MAtt wrote:

"JB doesn't help by saying "we're not that good" and "we were only good for one week last year." "

Is your suggestion that he lie?

He is just stating the obvious. This team isn't that good right now. Who could disagree with that? You think the players are somehow unaware of this?

You criticism of this seems to me to smack of the "everybody gets a trophy" and "no one should ever be told the truth about their performance because it might hurt their feelings" ethic that people say is what the Millenials are all about.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Really liked and agreed with most of your post until you got to the sentence saying Paschal is playing well. He did nothing but give up a career night to UConn's smaller center and Bol just ate him alive. Now, of course, Chuk and Bol are at two different skill levels, but he is 7 feet friggin 2 inches, he should have been able to slow Bol down at least a little bit and he should have been able to at least snag a couple of boards for putbacks.

That's one game. Chukwu's averaging 6.5 PPG, 5.5 Reb and 2.8 Blocks. He's shooting 70% from the floor. He is not currently the problem. Bol Bol is a unique player, like Giannis at Milwaukee, that kind of different.He'll probably be a top 5 pick.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ithaca MAtt wrote:

"JB doesn't help by saying "we're not that good" and "we were only good for one week last year." "

Is your suggestion that he lie?

He is just stating the obvious. This team isn't that good right now. Who could disagree with that? You think the players are somehow unaware of this?

You criticism of this seems to me to smack of the "everybody gets a trophy" and "no one should ever be told the truth about their performance because it might hurt their feelings" ethic that people say is what the Millenials are all about.

How does Babers talk about his players? How does he talk to the press?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ithaca MAtt wrote:

"JB doesn't help by saying "we're not that good" and "we were only good for one week last year." "

Is your suggestion that he lie?

He is just stating the obvious. This team isn't that good right now. Who could disagree with that? You think the players are somehow unaware of this?

You criticism of this seems to me to smack of the "everybody gets a trophy" and "no one should ever be told the truth about their performance because it might hurt their feelings" ethic that people say is what the Millenials are all about.

No, what I'm talking about is creating a toxic culture, a toxic environment. He has done that with certain players, and certain players have brought that out among themselves. Part of that is just the nature of being competitive guys trying to make it to the NBA at a top program.

Boeheim has gone out of his way to be negative, happening with more frequency these past 5-10 years, to really go after people in the press. I don't think it motivates people to play well for you. I've just seen so many times that it doesn't work with today's players. I've seen it in many sports.

 

[Townie72]

How does Babers talk about his players? How does he talk to the press?

JB has earned the right to be direct and honest. Barbers deflects questions into the one he wants to answer. As in “I don’t think of it that way”. Which reframes the conversation.

 

[elimunelson]

JB has earned the right to be direct and honest. Barbers deflects questions into the one he wants to answer. As in “I don’t think of it that way”. Which reframes the conversation.

This.

Boeheim in like 95, when he was maligned and coming off probation and a run of underachieving basketball of the late 80s/early 90s was a whiny guy who was always making excuses but never this direct. Now that he's the HOF coach w the success to match and can just say about anything he wants to because he has the luxury of not needing a filter.

He knows this team lacks effort. You'd have to be a moron to not see it. It's incumbent upon himself to fix this pronto. Losing Hopkins is probably an issue because he was effectively the associate HC. Maybe Gerry and Red aren't ready to step in yet and we're dealing with a vacuum in instruction/motivation. Who knows. I have faith Boeheim will figure it out. He usually does.

 

[690West]

Imagine Babers having to play 2 Power five opponents using the wildcat exclusively. No QB. We’ll see

 

[GooseMutt]

Doubt chukwu had a 7ft dad to play against growing up. Probably had a bb in his hands at age 2.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This.
Now that he's the HOF coach w the success to match and can just say about anything he wants to because he has the luxury of not needing a filter.

He knows this team lacks effort. You'd have to be a moron to not see it. It's incumbent upon himself to fix this pronto. ... I have faith Boeheim will figure it out. He usually does.

Now, you see, I see guys like Tyler Roberson and Chris McCullough not benefit from the negativity in the press about them. I see Matt Moyer transferring away, and Geno and several others; maybe they were good enough to play here, maybe they weren't. I don't see as much player development as we are used to. I don't see our offenses getting any better year after year, although the zone certainly has been getting better and better. It's like watching the end of Parcells or Bob Knight. I like Boeheim a lot better coaching the NBA guys during the Olympics because there's a mutual level of respect. He seems like a bit of a bully to his players.

 

[calorange]

Ithaca MAtt wrote:

"JB doesn't help by saying "we're not that good" and "we were only good for one week last year." "

Is your suggestion that he lie?

There are other options besides a lie. He can deliver both of these messages without leaving doubt about whether he believes in his team or in the individual players.

I find leaders who communicate like this to be demoralizing. If I were playing for him I would want to feel inspired to get better. JB's words too often do not do that.

Instead of "we're not that good" how about "we're not playing as well as we're capable of playing."

Instead of "we were only good for one week last year" how about "we really struggled for most of last year but when we pulled it all together in the tournament it showed what this team can do"

Whether or not he means to do it, JB's way leads the listener to believe that he thinks his team just sucks.

It's a strengths-based approach. Try it yourself. It works wonders.

 

[Newhouser]

Two things we have heard a lot in recent pre-seasons but have not noticed when games start - 1) we will be better offensively and 2) Player X has really increased his strength.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Two things we have heard a lot in recent pre-seasons but have not noticed when games start - 1) we will be better offensively and 2) Player X has really increased his strength.

I don't know where you have been, but everyone thought we were going to be a dumpster fire offensively last year. The previous 2 seasons we were able to make a lot of shots.

 

[corpjet]

Not having Frank has been vital to our struggles....how may turn overs and miscues did we see from Jalen Thursday and Friday night...we need Frank back and we need him badly.....

In addition to brining the ball up the floor and being a floor general not having him has also led to a lack of any sort of offense when we have the ball...we did a whole lot of standing around and trying to shoot 3s in NYC...

I never thought I would say this but we need him back ASAP...

 

[Townie72]

No, what I'm talking about is creating a toxic culture, a toxic environment. He has done that with certain players, and certain players have brought that out among themselves. Part of that is just the nature of being competitive guys trying to make it to the NBA at a top program.

Boeheim has gone out of his way to be negative, happening with more frequency these past 5-10 years, to really go after people in the press. I don't think it motivates people to play well for you. I've just seen so many times that it doesn't work with today's players. I've seen it in many sports.

Maybe that’s why you are doing what you are doing and why JB is doing.

Your suggestion that JB creates a “toxic” environment doesn’t square with what I see. Maybe that’s why the alumni team isn’t “Ithaca Matt’s Army” JBs alumni all seem to want to stay attached to the program and JB.

You apparently would rather listen to Baber’s Happy pap and non-answers than JBs reality.

There are other options besides a lie. He can deliver both of these messages without leaving doubt about whether he believes in his team or in the individual players.

I find leaders who communicate like this to be demoralizing. If I were playing for him I would want to feel inspired to get better. JB's words too often do not do that.

Instead of "we're not that good" how about "we're not playing as well as we're capable of playing."

Instead of "we were only good for one week last year" how about "we really struggled for most of last year but when we pulled it all together in the tournament it showed what this team can do"

Whether or not he means to do it, JB's way leads the listener to believe that he thinks his team just sucks.

It's a strengths-based approach. Try it yourself. It works wonders.

Well, he's not changing.

So your choices are:

Lump it.

Complain about it to no avail.

Get over it

But I guess that's not the "California" way.

Thanks for the gratuitous advice.

 

[cuseincincy]

Let’s try to answer the all important question on everyone’s minds right now:

How much is SU missing Senior PG Frank Howard these past few games?

Since I haven’t been able to watch the games yet, need help to answer these questions...

1.) Are we seeing any “Drive & Dish” opportunities?

A good veteran PG will open teammates for shots by driving to hoop & drawing defenders to him, thus leaving teammates open for kickout 3s. Is this element lacking without Frank so far?

2.) Are we seeing any “Alley-Oop” attempts?

Usually a staple of SU offenses, a normal game will see 3-5 such alley-oop attempts. Make or miss, these help to ensure the defense does not cheat up too much, and continues to pay attention to the back line. How many of these are we attempting?

3.) This one’s obvious - Are we having trouble just bringing the ball up & getting into our offense? Are we turning the ball over too much at these points?

4.) Are opponents successfully shooting over top of our zone?

Frank is listed at 6-5 & has been schooled in the art of JB’s zone D. He knows the importance of closing out hard on shooters (especially those with hot hand, like UCONN).

Frank’s replacement (Carey) is 6-2/6-3 and a Freshman learning the zone. This stuff can make a difference, especially if teams are shooting high percentages against us.

5.) And finally, this one’s little tougher to determine. But, when things start going wrong & other team starts pulling away, is the team able to battle through this? Or, when SU is making a run and getting close to evening up the score, are they able to keep their foot on the gas?

These are things that veteran leadership helps with. And Frank is the lone Senior & “floor general” (PG).

If we are answering “No” to #1 & 2 and “Yes” to #3-5, then the absence of Frank may really be a big factor in our recent poor play.

If not, then hang on to your butts...

No, it's not just Frank.
1) Didn't see a lot of drive and dish with Frank as the PG last year.
2) Not sure I've seen one. Didn't see many last year either but Frank will throw it once in a while. This needs to be a bigger part of our offense.
3) Had a few issues but on the whole no. No matter who the PG is if they press you will not get into the Offense very soon.
4) UConn hit a few 30 footers that Frank won't help with. He will probably take a few 20-22 footers away though. Carey is closer to 6'4" than 6'3"...he's plenty tall and quicker.
5) Biggest issue in my opinion. Without Frank, Tyus seems to think he has to make every play and has been forcing his shot (hence the sub 10% 3FG%). Shooting it with no legs. OB is stepping out to take that pressure off but that's not his game. The 3 should be more of a when left alone for OB than at the end of a possession. He still isn't making layups and unfortunately isn't taking many of them either.
My brother asked me if it was good that the best PG on the team may be a true frosh. Carey is NOT the best PG on the team. He played 38 minutes the other night with ZERO assists He HAS been the best guard on the team though as his 26 pts that same game indicate, plus he's shooting 50% FG (Tyus is at 40, OB at 31% and EH at 38% and from 3 its even worse with Carey at 42%, TB 9%, OB 19%, EH 25%, Frank is not likely to help this and taking your best shooter out of the lineup doesn't scream BETTER.

Still, lots of talent. Let's see how they play with Frank. JB's biggest problem may be how to get his 5 best players on the court together; FH, JC, TB, EH and OB. An actual PG would have a field day with this team.

 

[obliterata]

Frank will help a lot when he comes back, if he comes back. He's a very good player and a leader playing the most important position on the court, I think the other players would respond positively if he was playing.

He's been out over 2 months, I wonder what type of injury he has (I mean, besides a lower leg injury).

 

[IthacaMatt]

Maybe that’s why you are doing what you are doing and why JB is doing.

Your suggestion that JB creates a “toxic” environment doesn’t square with what I see. Maybe that’s why the alumni team isn’t “Ithaca Matt’s Army” JBs alumni all seem to want to stay attached to the program and JB.

You apparently would rather listen to Baber’s Happy pap and non-answers than JBs reality.


Well, he's not changing.

So your choices are:

Lump it.

Complain about it to no avail.

Get over it

But I guess that's not the "California" way.

Thanks for the gratuitous advice.

There's a reason that there is a generational changing of the guard. We have been mediocre for a few years now. Some people have blamed sanctions. The roster has not been well managed in the meantime. We have lost players sooner than expected several times now. Boeheim has not always been supportive of people going pro early; in fact he seems against it more often than for it. Don't think recruits don't notice. Don't think the players ALL respond to harsh public criticism.

I see it in other sports all the time. The Yankees replaced a tightly wound manager with one who was more laid back and relied on modern analytics. In Premier League soccer, which has an outstanding collection of great coaches right now, one of them is running out of chances at the top, because he's always pissed off at his team, constantly complains in the press, berates officials and his ownership, and never owns up to his own mistakes. He's won 18 major trophies, and championships in 4 countries, but he is just permanently pissed off, and it's no longer working. Players tune you out.

So, sure, JB can do no wrong, and has no part in why some players never seem to develop, or why we haven't had an even mediocre offense (say, above 100) in four out of the last five years. Other teams do more with less talent. But I will definitely admit that our defense has become regularly outstanding, after early years of the zone getting shredded at least half a dozen times a year.

 

[PhatOrange]

You need a PG to run the show and direct traffic. A PG is a QB.