ISO...Was at The Garden, hard to watch endless ISO plays and 2-1 breaks with no passes made...
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STEVEHOLT
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yeah. it was just uconn being lucky vs us and unlucky vs iowa. those long shots they hit were uncontested step into it threes. its not the distance its the level of resistance that makes shooting difficult at that level. any decent shooter in P5 division one bball can hit open shots out to 27 feet regularly. and before you make this a zone vs man issue..its not..its a how you play the zone issue. our D was crap.
Col. Bleep
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Have to agree.
I've got to stop going to these games.
If guys are bombing 3's and hitting you have to get out on them.
In both games the interior defense was abominable.
UConn "big" made SU centers look foolish.
And the Orange let Bol look like the second coming of Tim Duncan or David Robinson.
Iowa leaned on him and pushed him around like the stringbean he is.
If you're going to lose at least make the other team work for their points.
orangecuse
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Bingo! Dead on post...in my opinion.
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PhatOrange
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How come we don't hit the open uncontested shots then? I see a lot of them clang off the rim. Maybe we can't shoot, but the uconn kids can't either. they just had a hot night. same as when hughes goes 6 for 7 one of these nights which he will.
manleyzoo
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Hey, don't let the facts hit you on the way out...Sorry, not any "decent college shooter in P5 division one can hit open shots out to 27 feet regularly." In fact, most can't. College players shot on average about 32% from 25 feet on out from 2013 - 2018. Yukon hit 57%, 12-21. In a normal game they would have scored 20 points off threes not 36. There's more...with the nearest defender within 2-4 feet, teams averaged .96 points per shot attempt at 25 feet. By that figure, Yukon would have scored the same 20 points off of their 21 treys not the 36 they actually got. Don't believe me? Read a little. Assessing Shooting Performance in NBA and NCAA Basketball. They shoot a normal percentage or even slightly above normal, we win easily.
Townie72
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Whooooa!
I’d be willing to bet that as the distance of the three point shot attempts increases, the percentage made decreases.
It may appear that way on those magic nights where everything seems to be falling. But yours is a false premise.
KevMonstah
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I would put the argument this way, once a guy, or team, gets hot, the better way to defend
is not "stay where you initially set up and hope they go cold", but "get out a little further,
and contest the shot". Allowing decent shooters to get in a rhythm, it takes a little more
than making them shoot from 1-2' further out, cuz as SU fans, we've seen guys hit a 20 footer,
then a 22, then a 24, then a holy-crap-that's-way-out-and-drat-he-hit-it-anyways-shot.
Even Cooney was good for at least one of those games a year for the Orange. GMac had
his. I would simply say that SU makes it easier for opponents to get on this sort of roll, and
they make it more difficult on themselves to get them off that roll.
Kev
is not "stay where you initially set up and hope they go cold", but "get out a little further,
and contest the shot". Allowing decent shooters to get in a rhythm, it takes a little more
than making them shoot from 1-2' further out, cuz as SU fans, we've seen guys hit a 20 footer,
then a 22, then a 24, then a holy-crap-that's-way-out-and-drat-he-hit-it-anyways-shot.
Even Cooney was good for at least one of those games a year for the Orange. GMac had
his. I would simply say that SU makes it easier for opponents to get on this sort of roll, and
they make it more difficult on themselves to get them off that roll.
Kev
reedny
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I keep posting and hopefully someone's listening. We have no functioning PG right now. Even Carey (who's talented but not playing the role of a PG .. 1A in 2 games over 70+ minutes) is not diming anyone. Effectively we have 4 volume scorers and no set up guy.
We're not just having a little trouble passing, we're DEAD LAST in the league: Atlantic Coast Conference Statistics - College Basketball - ESPN
We're not just having a little trouble passing, we're DEAD LAST in the league: Atlantic Coast Conference Statistics - College Basketball - ESPN
STEVEHOLT
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No kidding percentages decrease as distances increases , who is debating this point ?
STEVEHOLT
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This has nothing to do with what I said . It doesn’t even really address it
SoBeCuse
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True but we DID have at least two games last season with 3 assists in one game. 3! Ball movement is just not a priority in this offense anymore. That’s clear as day watching SU the past few years. We just have to accept it.
manleyzoo
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Hmmm...you said any decent D1 shooter can hit 27 footers regularly. The facts say not so. You said our D was crap (I guess that's your main point.) I say the facts show that it was a freak shooting night for them. No zone by any team anywhere goes out to 27 feet to tag shooters. It had nothing to do with execution and everything to do with those guys playing out of their minds for one night. And the stats back that up.
Townie72
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You just wrote this, "its not the distance its the level of resistance that makes shooting difficult at that level. any decent shooter in P5 division one bball can hit open shots out to 27 feet regularly."
You point cannot be that we need to closely guard all three point attempts because of them some might go in.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here because I don't think you have articulated what you really mean.
But you might mean that streching the zone to meet these far out attepts is a good idea. But you don't seem to be considering the consequences of doing that.
Cusedad2X
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Statistical intangibles: intensity of defenders, time of game, bench bombers vs. starters, etc. etc. Simplistic view: UConn shot what they wanted and when/where they wanted with little resistance from our D. We few open looks from anywhere. Mr. Hurley prepared for us and ate Jim's lunch.
KevMonstah
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If I was to address the OP and topic ...
Yes, iso ball sucks. It's hard to watch, especially when not a whole lot of effort is made
to do other options to get easier looks.
I'm a fan of having a low post option. I'm not going to say low post and low post ONLY,
but you can work this with anyone. Battle or Brissett can certainly post their guys, probably
Hughes. And if you can't teach Chukwu to catch, turn, and put it off the glass, you really don't
have much business working with big guys. I'll admit, Bol Bol on D will make a low post
game difficult, but he's not there in many games.
I'm also a fan of player movement and ball movement, which SU doesn't have. Years ago,
SU would get the ball high to Keita, and he was probably good for one assist a game on
backdoor cuts by Cooney. I don't totally get high picks by guys who do not know what to
do with the ball when they get it, but he had that one pass with player movement. You
don't see much of that now.
I don't like that SU doesn't run as much as it used to. I can live with turnovers if the pace
is pushed, but it's hard to do that when you recruit combo guards and convert them to
PGs. I think the offense in general struggles with this.
And finally, why is it that SU cannot execute against a zone? One would think they would
know how, either from practicing against it, or watching old tapes of how other teams
successfully attacked it. I don't get how you can play against this defense for years, yet
seem to be clueless when confronted with it. Ball to high post, kick out. Ball to high post,
shot. Ball to high post, pump, one dribble shot. Crash the boards. Done. Not pass
around. And around. And around. And heave.
And Frank will fix some of this. You're adding a good player, but he's not a lights out
shooter, or a 5-1 assist-turnover guy, or a jitterbug with the ball. They'll play better,
but it's a long season, and they got lots of time to improve. I'd rather they improve all
year instead of peaking in December, that's for sure.
Kev
Yes, iso ball sucks. It's hard to watch, especially when not a whole lot of effort is made
to do other options to get easier looks.
I'm a fan of having a low post option. I'm not going to say low post and low post ONLY,
but you can work this with anyone. Battle or Brissett can certainly post their guys, probably
Hughes. And if you can't teach Chukwu to catch, turn, and put it off the glass, you really don't
have much business working with big guys. I'll admit, Bol Bol on D will make a low post
game difficult, but he's not there in many games.
I'm also a fan of player movement and ball movement, which SU doesn't have. Years ago,
SU would get the ball high to Keita, and he was probably good for one assist a game on
backdoor cuts by Cooney. I don't totally get high picks by guys who do not know what to
do with the ball when they get it, but he had that one pass with player movement. You
don't see much of that now.
I don't like that SU doesn't run as much as it used to. I can live with turnovers if the pace
is pushed, but it's hard to do that when you recruit combo guards and convert them to
PGs. I think the offense in general struggles with this.
And finally, why is it that SU cannot execute against a zone? One would think they would
know how, either from practicing against it, or watching old tapes of how other teams
successfully attacked it. I don't get how you can play against this defense for years, yet
seem to be clueless when confronted with it. Ball to high post, kick out. Ball to high post,
shot. Ball to high post, pump, one dribble shot. Crash the boards. Done. Not pass
around. And around. And around. And heave.
And Frank will fix some of this. You're adding a good player, but he's not a lights out
shooter, or a 5-1 assist-turnover guy, or a jitterbug with the ball. They'll play better,
but it's a long season, and they got lots of time to improve. I'd rather they improve all
year instead of peaking in December, that's for sure.
Kev
Agree our zine was not the best but they hit some bombs with shot clock running down. Conversely UCONN missed wide open looks against Oregon. Stuff happens most post was regarding offense as we won’t win games by scoring 22 points a half.
