It's amazing... | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

It's amazing...

Cowtown said:
I think you're trying too hard to sound smarter than the rest of us. We won a game we should have had no chance at because the kids played their asses off on D. It was an outstanding effort that way. Pretty simple, there's not a lot beyond that. Just enjoy it. Good luck with your gum :)
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I have no idea whether I’m smarter than even one of you.

But from what I can tell, this discussion is not about today’s game.

And if you care to look, you will find other threads in which I enthusiastically credited both JB and his incredibly hard working players.

There is no question about how praiseworthy their efforts are, not just in this game, but on the season.

JB has outdone himself, and so have the kids.
 
hungrychuck said:
You’re right. I was there.

And he deserves credit for bringing in both of those guys.

But let’s not pretend he was playing Murderers Row.
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I was there, too. And you played who you played in those days.
 
br801 said:
You mean that crappy Indiana team that went 30-4 and had five guys average in double figures?
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Never said they were crappy. Just said we were more talented.

We were.
 
hungrychuck said:
You’re right. I was there.

And he deserves credit for bringing in both of those guys.

But let’s not pretend he was playing Murderers Row.
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No, because they were over at UCLA. Seriously, you just play whoever shows up. You have no control over who that is.
 
Cowtown said:
No, because they were over at UCLA. Seriously, you just play whoever shows up. You have no control over who that is.
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Which is fine, but then let’s not get hung up on regular-season record.

Not questioning that JB deserves to be a HOF coach. He does.

I did say he wasn’t a great coach at tbe start and has become significantly better.

If that’s a scandalous statement, I’m sorry.

But I hold to it.
 
hungrychuck said:
Never said they were crappy. Just said we were more talented.

We were.
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Perhaps, but that was among the best teams Knight had at IU, and was ranked in the top 3 throughout the season.
 
hungrychuck said:
Which is fine, but then let’s not get hung up on regular-season record.

Not questioning that JB deserves to be a HOF coach. He does.

I did say he wasn’t a great coach at tbe start and has become significantly better.

If that’s a scandalous statement, I’m sorry.

But I hold to it.
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I prefer to consider regular season and NCAA records separately. They're like the difference between driving a golf ball and putting one. Two distinctly different things. But that's just me. :)
 
Cowtown said:
I prefer to consider regular season and NCAA records separately. They're like the difference between driving a golf ball and putting one. Two distinctly different things. But that's just me. :)
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Fair enough. And you can rest assured I was and AM quite happy with today’s - or yesterday’s - result.

I’ve been saying since mid-season that we’ve overachieved. Some disagreed with that later in the year.

But I felt it held true even if we didn’t make the dance.

About this season, this team, this tournament and this game, there’s no question that JB has done a superb job.
 
hungrychuck said:
Yep. And it’s not like everyone had Young Boeheim wrong.

He wasn’t a very good coach.

A few decades of experience don’t hurt.
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Yes he was. Many times people over valued his team's overall talent. Great players, but flawed teams. In a world where guys stayed 3-4 years, you can't afford to have Micheal Edwards and Stevie Thompson playing point guard.
In one of those big upsets, Douglas was sick, but they didnt want to give him medicine, because of drug testing.
Also, people weren't as aware of other team's talents. As an example, we all thought SU could handle the small white point guard from Georgia Tech. Turns out that Mark Price guy was pretty good.
 
Most if not all the experts said that the winner of the 87 Indiana vs UNLV game would be the champ and the SU vs Prov winner would be crushed. This after...Coleman blocked UNC's JR Reid shot like he was taking the ball away from his 8 year old little brother. The "experts" didn't realize how talented that 87 really was in 87. Indiana and UNLV were really good and had excellent seasons and talent.
 
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hungrychuck said:
True in part. He lost versus an undertalented IU team in 87.

I agree on 96. That was his breakthrough as a coach in my view.

But that was year 20.
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"Undertalented". The oddsmakers in Las Vegas whose job it is to determine these things totally disagree with you. Indiana was a 4 1/2 point favorite in that game. Indiana was a #1 seed. You are blowing smoke.
 
hungrychuck said:
He lost versus an undertalented IU team in 87.
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Indiana was a #1 seed that year and heavily favored against #2 seed SU in the final game. Indiana spent the entire season in the top 5 of the AP poll. In the final AP poll, Indiana was ranked #3 and Syracuse was #10. Indiana won the Big 10 while Syracuse finished tied with Georgetown and Pitt in the Big East. It is ridiculous revisionist history to portray the 1987 NCAA tournament as anything other than a tremendous achievement by Boeheim and SU.
 
Jake said:
as a kid growing up I used to get so pissed when national commentators would talk about JB "doing so little with so much talent".

Starting in 1996 and given the past two tournanent runs, he has completely changed his image to "don't let them into the dance, because he can beat you with 5 blind nuns" playing that damn zone.

It's truly a 180.
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I said yesterday that this is exactly why people get upset when we get in as a bubble team. It's not that people truly believe that we're undeserving, it's that if we get in as a lower seed that we can legitimately beat you and make a run. It's great to be among the hated; it's flattering!
 
hungrychuck said:
Yep. And it’s not like everyone had Young Boeheim wrong.

He wasn’t a very good coach.

A few decades of experience don’t hurt.
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Can you offer specifics supporting he wasn't a very good coach? We all know the obvious upsets suffered to lower seeds, but is that the entire counter argument? those 3-4 losses that were inexcusable are the difference between being an all time great and being not very good? Or are there other observations/failures to support he wasn't very good early on?
 
hungrychuck said:
And let’s not forget he inherited a program that had been to the Final Four the previous year.

I give a lot of credit to latter-day JB.

But he did not create SU basketball.
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Are you an insane person?
 
bugged me hearing ESPNU rail on Syracuse being medicore over the last 3 years and saying we're built for a couple of games in the tourney without acknowledging the reasons for our medicore seasons. sanctions, scholarship reductions and guys going pro etc.
 
I was going to post the the exact same thing. Although I think in the early to mid-2000's we still did have a reputation for underachieving in the tournament (you only won with Melo, Vermont, etc).

One thing is for sure, although it took a while this time.. JB ALWAYS does his best with team's you weren't expecting to be any good.
 
This on the ESPN ticker: Jim Boeheim has coached 15 upset wins in the NCAA tournament since 1985. Four more than any other coach.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had coached the most upset losses in his years before that.
 
Jake said:
as a kid growing up I used to get so pissed when national commentators would talk about JB "doing so little with so much talent".

Starting in 1996 and given the past two tournanent runs, he has completely changed his image to "don't let them into the dance, because he can beat you with 5 blind nuns" playing that damn zone.

It's truly a 180.
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People are all over Bennett but it took JB 11 years to win more than one game in the NCAA, includnig that God-awful loss to Navy in the dome and then he proceeded to lose to an 11, a 6 and a 15 as a really high seed in 3 of the 4 tournies after 1987...

That is why he had the rep he did...

I shudder to think at what this board would be like if we went through a stretch now like we did from 86-91...

losing at home to a #7 as a 2
losing championship game in excruciating fashion
losing to an 11 as a 3
losing in elite 8
losing to a 6 as a 2
losing to a 15 as a 2

6 straight years, 5 as a 2 and 1 as a 3, with one final four, one elite eight and four flameouts...this place would make Dante's Circles of Hell look like Disney World...
 
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