It's not about the X's and the O's...

[NineOneSeven]

There is a ceiling in terms of how good Syracuse can be recruiting as has been discussed here many times. The x and o stuff matters much more for us imo. Need to make the most out of the players we get, so yes it’s a combination of both (obviously).

I find the coaching this season to be downright terrible. I know injuries and opt outs and youth are spread throughout the team, but Friday’s game was one of the worst you’ll ever see.

What was practiced all week? Legitimately.

 

[qdawgg]

Redrum get the boot for the aggressive game thread comment or did he decide enough is enough?

NBA free agency hasn’t quenched my drama thirst

Oh, feel free to DM what was said.

 

[Crusty]

What's the trend?

I think the only point is that recruiting has not much changed in the last 12 years. Each coach had a good year as well as bad. I am sure a lot has to do with the positions being recruited each year and the buzz around the program.

Dino has the best publicity of all three - the press loved him. The Virginia Tech speech was played everywhere and made him a bit of a rock star. He is also a good interview whereas the other two were not.

Beating VT soundly 31-17 in 2016 and the earthquake that was Clemson 27-24 in 2017 seemed to give us a bit of buzz for a couple of years. I thought the 10-3 season would have produced better results than it did and I am a bit surprised by the 2020 numbers but each year is a small sample size and can be skewed by a lot of factors.

If I find the time I should do Scout, 247 and Rivals as well.

 

[cuseincincy]

Getting more studs is the need for any team. Generating a winning culture where coaches develop and scheme to maximize production is what most teams have to rely on. Some more than others. There are many examples of less talented teams consistently winning. Indiana is just a recent example of this. The key is for them to capitalize off this success and bring in high end talent to keep it going.

Getting more studs is the need for any team. Generating a winning culture where coaches develop and scheme to maximize production is what most teams have to rely on. Some more than others. There are many examples of less talented teams consistently winning. Indiana is just a recent example of this. The key is for them to capitalize off this success and bring in high end talent to keep it going.

Indiana is an example of "consistently winning?" The same Indiana that is seeking its 3rd non losing record in the past 20 seasons? SU has 8 of those. Past 30 Indiana has 8, SU has 18.
This year Indiana is catching lightning in a bottle but there is nothing consistent about their program except losing. Perhaps Northwestern or Minnesota are better examples? Consistently mediocre to just above mediocre.

 

[money3189]

Indiana is an example of "consistently winning?" The same Indiana that is seeking its 3rd non losing record in the past 20 seasons? SU has 8 of those. Past 30 Indiana has 8, SU has 18.
This year Indiana is catching lightning in a bottle but there is nothing consistent about their program except losing. Perhaps Northwestern or Minnesota are better examples? Consistently mediocre to just above mediocre.
[/QUOTE

I mentioned Indiana because its the way we have to get good players now. Build a culture and develop players. Grab under appreciated guys like Stevie Scott. Thats's why he went from 1 to 5 to 8 wins. 4-1 so far this season and has their best class ever right now. There's a stready progression. Recruits see that. SU went from 4-8, 10-3, 5-7, to 1-8. Indiana is the best example of where we are at as a program right now, those programs you mentioned are not. Does that make sense?

 

[phil77]

I want to believe that we do have enough talent to get to 7-8 wins.

That said, if we do... it's definitely on the coaching that we're playing so poorly.

I really hope next season we can be a functional, normal football team, and get to 6 wins (or more) and a bowl game.

I think 7-8 might a reach maybe if nobody on the roster got injured maybe. But there is enough talent on the roster to not look completely lost on the field. Teams with less or equal talent wins games and look like a well coached football team. We look like an undisciplined junior varsity team which is on coaching.

So while I do think we lack talent to be a consistent 8-10 game winner I feel we have enough talent to be in the running for a bowl game every year and not look totally incompetent on offense.

 

[NineOneSeven]

30-0 and not a single play on o that was exciting

 

[Chip]

30-0 and not a single play on o that was exciting

Tucker still managed 93 yards on 16 carries, 5.8 average.

For an OC that we were told ran the ball too much, he should run it more. It's his only potential weapon.

 

[qdawgg]

Tucker still managed 93 yards on 16 carries, 5.8 average.

For an OC that we were told ran the ball too much, he should run it more. It's his only potential weapon.

This is actually my biggest frustration with the game. You have a QB for a variety of reasons couldn’t make plays. You have a RB who had some great runs. It was common sense to try to just run the ball a lot.

What’s the worst that happens. We go 3 and out? That happened anyway. The QB doesn’t get sacked or throw INT’s if you’re running the ball, so running the ball makes a ton of sense. If UL doesn’t load the box we probably move the ball a little more than we did and maybe we score at some point. If we move the ball they have to cover the run and it gives us a chance to throw the ball at times.

But no, we try to force an offense to do what it’s not capable of. We did everything that wasn’t going to work and we tried to do it an entire game. Meathead football

 

[cuseincincy]

I mentioned Indiana because its the way we have to get good players now. Build a culture and develop players. Grab under appreciated guys like Stevie Scott. Thats's why he went from 1 to 5 to 8 wins. 4-1 so far this season and has their best class ever right now. There's a stready progression. Recruits see that. SU went from 4-8, 10-3, 5-7, to 1-8. Indiana is the best example of where we are at as a program right now, those programs you mentioned are not. Does that make sense?

Not really. IU had a slight uptick in 2019 but otherwise the last 4 years recruiting have been very similarly ranked to SU. The difference between the 2 programs is IU's 3 star QB from 2018 is better than SU's 4 star QB from 2017.

 

[CapitalO]

Not really. IU had a slight uptick in 2019 but otherwise the last 4 years recruiting have been very similarly ranked to SU. The difference between the 2 programs is IU's 3 star QB from 2018 is better than SU's 4 star QB from 2017.

Yes in 2019 Indiana did have an uptick and even the games they lost they were very competitive and the Big 10 conference was very powerful last year, so this year the Big 10 is down and Indiana is taking full advantage of having a very good season that will get them a very nice bowl game an help them very much in the recruiting process.

 

[money3189]

Not really. IU had a slight uptick in 2019 but otherwise the last 4 years recruiting have been very similarly ranked to SU. The difference between the 2 programs is IU's 3 star QB from 2018 is better than SU's 4 star QB from 2017.

Not really? Check their rankings again. From their 8 wins in 2019 and continuous improvement they were able to produce an average rating per recruit close to a 87 this year. Cuse fans will kill for that. That's Indiana's best class ever lol.

 

[TheCusian]

Talent is why we are not good. Coaching is why we are god awful. If it was all about the talent, then why are we right around 100th (depending on the computer ranking) in the nation but our recruiting class were all well above that? If our classes averaged 60 and we were 70th best team your comment woudl hold weight. But when we are 100th it does not.

injuries and opt outs

 

[HRE Otto IV]

injuries and opt outs

Or O opt outs and injuries aren't that good. it wouldn't have made a significant difference.

 

[orangepassion]

Or O opt outs and injuries aren't that good. it wouldn't have made a significant difference.

Who are of our injured players makes us significantly better on Offense?

 

[tipphill]

...it's about the Jimmy's and the Joe's. We have all heard that numerous times - and it is true. The data regarding the projection attributes of recruit ratings over the years is pretty solid. Colleges spend gigantic amounts on facilities for a reason - they have to in order to attract 18 and 19 year old kids with dreams of glory or even an NFL career.

Certainly, other things matter but injuries, scheme, strenght of schedule and coaching are all factors, but the single most important factor is recruiting. Injuries happen to all teams, SOS many times turns out to be different than originally thought as games are scheduled years in advance and today's hero coach is tomorrow's goat.

Are there exceptions that prove the rule? Of course, but please don't rely on anectdotal eveidence in the face of strong data. Betting against the law of large numbers is like dodging lightning bolts for a living.

In our case the numbers have been pretty acurate as predictors of future team results. We have to stop deluding ourselves with rationalization about the low ratings of our classes, which consitently rank at the bottom of the ACC.

I took alook at the numerical grades by ESPN of all classes since 2009, which encompases Marrone, Shafer and Babers (288 players). This sems like a reasoanble subset of data for the topic.
Babers clases average 75.16
Marrone 74.67
Shafer 74.08

Not a significant difference between all three over 12 recruiting classes.

Until this changes, we are going to be mired in mediaocrity at best.

is there a significant difference in w/l records? if so coaching may have something to do with it.

 

[cuseincincy]

Not really? Check their rankings again. From their 8 wins in 2019 and continuous improvement they were able to produce an average rating per recruit close to a 87 this year. Cuse fans will kill for that. That's Indiana's best class ever lol.

The recruits you are talking about are still playing high school ball and have zero to do with IU's success this season or last. Zero. And yet that IU class you speak of is ranked 62nd and SU's is ranked 47th. Admittedly that is mainly to # of recruits right now. But once Penix leaves IU will be back to their usual 4-5 wins.

 

[money3189]

The recruits you are talking about are still playing high school ball and have zero to do with IU's success this season or last. Zero. And yet that IU class you speak of is ranked 62nd and SU's is ranked 47th. Admittedly that is mainly to # of recruits right now. But once Penix leaves IU will be back to their usual 4-5 wins.

Why are you changing the narrative lol . I didnt mention anything about how they are winning on the field and what will happen to them once their QB leaves lol. I didnt mention Indiana to brag about their program in comparison to us. I used them as an example of how we have to do it in order for us to turn it around. You act like I care about Indiana or something. I have no interest in what the future holds for them. Sounds like you do. They are getting more quality commits due to the recent success they are having. Point blank. They averaged between 81-83 per recruit ranking from 2007-2017. The average from the last 3 classes is a 86.

 

[FloridaFan]

Kickers go laces out, not quarterbacks

How many times do you need to be shown the articles showing it’s not super uncommon to throw laces out

 

[Millhouse]

How many times do you need to be shown the articles showing it’s not super uncommon to throw laces out

Lots more apparently. Watch games

 

[cuseincincy]

Why are you changing the narrative lol . I didnt mention anything about how they are winning on the field and what will happen to them once their QB leaves lol. I didnt mention Indiana to brag about their program in comparison to us. I used them as an example of how we have to do it in order for us to turn it around. You act like I care about Indiana or something. I have no interest in what the future holds for them. Sounds like you do. They are getting more quality commits due to the recent success they are having. Point blank. They averaged between 81-83 per recruit ranking from 2007-2017. The average from the last 3 classes is a 86.

If this statement isn't about Indiana winning on the field what is it about?
"There are many examples of less talented teams consistently winning. Indiana is just a recent example of this. "

I was simply pointing out the fallacy in your statement. Perhaps you should re-read it. Lol!

 

[money3189]

If this statement isn't about Indiana winning on the field what is it about?
"There are many examples of less talented teams consistently winning. Indiana is just a recent example of this. "

I was simply pointing out the fallacy in your statement. Perhaps you should re-read it. Lol!

I was using Indiana as an example of having less talented teams develop and compete against superior teams and how their RECENT success has help them land more QUALITY COMMITS. I felt like I said this to you 3 times already. I wasnt using them as an example of teams that have won for decades lol. I thought that was pretty clear since everyone knows Indiana has sucked for decades. Sorry I didnt make it clear enough for you. Do you want to talk about what the intent of the post was or keep talking about Indiana?

 

[rocklloyd]

Go get the best dual threat Qb we can get our hands on and let the kid free lance when plays break down. To me, that seems like our best recipe for success.