Class of 2014 Ja'Quan Newton

[edowd26]

MCW, thanks again, for reminding me of another SU 5 star recruit who couldn't get many minutes as a freshman. BTW, how did big man feshman McGrady do for Michign this season?

I'm a little confused. Are you complaining about our recruiting? Or what happens when we get a 5 star recruit? I totally agree. Our program has been complete shitt, or inability to have 5 star players be impact players is severely limitting our ability to compete. Elite eights, final fours and a few number 1 rankings has been very mundane. Can't believe we are missing on all the good players, getting all these option b 's is making this program feel very providency (eat it friarj) .

 

[cusetown1]

Like I said, I'm not a recruiting guru so I want to learn. Let me get this straight:

1) We really wanted Vonleh but we weren't in the heavy mix with him, therefore he was no longer option A. After Vonleh was not option A, we were pushing for Roberson and J Law, but because J's recruitment had some nonsense Roberson therefore was option A, got it.

2) Dakari was our option A in 2014 but he reclassified to 2013, so we didn't want him anymore and we gave his scholarship to a walk on. Got it.

3) The board and the recruiting services thought for 2 years that we were recruiting Wiggins, but the staff really wasn't, so he doesn't count. Got it. And if he did want to commit to us we wouldn't take him because he wasn't option A.

4) R Jordan was option A and Patterson was option B, thanks, I had forgotten that. It is interesting to know that I know what I have forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.

I think I'm learning. I feel so much better knowing that SU gets all it's option A recruits. Let me give it a try: James Young from Rochester, was not really good enough for SU/not as good as BJ/more interested in some other school, therefore he wasn't really our option A. Bingo! How did I do?

James Young is from Rochester Michigan,don't know what that comment had to do with anything. Seems to me you are just being condescending.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Well I don't follow recruiting as much as some of you so you might be right, especially since Francis gave you a like. I know Francis is one of the best at following SU recruiting. Francis, just for my clarification, please confirm that all our '13 recruits were option A: that JB wanted Obokoh over Dakari Johnson, Roberson over Noah Vonleh and Julius Randle, BJ over Wiggins and Jame Young and Wayne Sheldon. Thanks in advance.

Concerning our recent 5 stars, I doubt they have lived up to anyone's expectations (except maybe yours) including their own. Considering many posters had Rak and DCII as one and dones (not me BTW), I think it is save to say that they did not live up to expectations when their over/under for staying in as a starter was 100 sec.

About our '13 class, we got the PG we wanted and needed and a bunch of players with potential. A foundation class as somone astutely described it. I'm not unhappy with it. It is a good class for SU. A protypical SU class, that is, as Flascusian indicated above, full of players expected to stick around and get a lot of experience. A lot like the 2001 class. And just like the 2001 class, a class that is not likely to take us very far at the end of this coming season. I do have higher hopes for SU. I'd like to see them get one top flight 5 star player each year, that plays like a top flight 5 star player - you know, like Chris M in '14.

It's not a draft, its a courtship. Coaches get involved with kids to see if they are a fit. No coach gets everyone they want. However, most coaches identify 2-4 kids at each position of need, and recruit like hell. For us, these kids are all top choices. We are not replacing ribeye with cube steak. We might chose a sirloin or porterhouse instead. Also, the kid has to chose us. How the kid gets along with the players, did he like the tour, did he get laid on his visit, did he like the facilities, is he willing to go through CNY winters, what's his projected playing time, etc. are all factors.
Heck I was just talking to a person (yesterday) who knew a kid that went on a recruiting visit, at the end of the visit the coach said you are everything we look for in a player (soccer) but you are not a fit for our campus.
There are a lot of reasons any school doesn't get the person whom fans think is the coaches #1 choice, or the actual top choice. Sometimes it works out way better for the coach ( Boo Harvey vs Sherm, Julius Hodge vs Hak)

 

[4evaOrange]

Dafuq is going on in this thread???

 

[Ward]

Like I said, I'm not a recruiting guru so I want to learn. Let me get this straight:

1) We really wanted Vonleh but we weren't in the heavy mix with him, therefore he was no longer option A. After Vonleh was not option A, we were pushing for Roberson and J Law, but because J's recruitment had some nonsense Roberson therefore was option A, got it.

2) Dakari was our option A in 2014 but he reclassified to 2013, so we didn't want him anymore and we gave his scholarship to a walk on. Got it.

3) The board and the recruiting services thought for 2 years that we were recruiting Wiggins, but the staff really wasn't, so he doesn't count. Got it. And if he did want to commit to us we wouldn't take him because he wasn't option A.

4) R Jordan was option A and Patterson was option B, thanks, I had forgotten that. It is interesting to know that I know what I have forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.

I think I'm learning. I feel so much better knowing that SU gets all it's option A recruits. Let me give it a try: James Young from Rochester, was not really good enough for SU/not as good as BJ/more interested in some other school, therefore he wasn't really our option A. Bingo! How did I do?

You did terrible and didn't get it straight so try again. I'll try and help...

1) As Francis said the staff was watching Vonleh quite a bit then seemed to have backed off. Vonleh was in the 2014 class at the time and is the same position as McCullough. McCullough apparently was the staffs "option A" as you like to call it and we landed him. Vonleh then reclassifies to 2013. The staff tries to get back in and maybe see if they can get back in the mix, which all signs show that they were, but then Vonleh decides to go to the same school as his brother. To make it sound like Lawrence was the head and shoulders preference over Roberson isn't accurate. If you look at anything other than an ESPN rankings list you would see that Roberson is every bit the prospect Lawrence is if not better. Lawrence proved to be high maintenance, staff didn't want to deal with it so they stopped recruiting him. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about that. We then focused on and got a guy who was a top 30 player and was dominant against good competition throughout his senior year. Not to mention he fits our system almost perfectly. Got it?

2) Dakari was a strong possibility while he was still a 2014 kid. The extra year he wouldve spent in high school increased the chances of DC or Rak not being here and also BMK is no doubt gone. He reclassifies and now all of a sudden instead of us offering a roster with only one other proven center or big on it, we have one of 3 guys who just anchored the middle for a Final Four run. The situation changes. It's not just about offering the top 15 guys in every class and if we dont get them we had a bad recruiting year. It's about building a team and finding guys who fit roles. Would Dakari have been a great talent to bring in this year? Of course. But him coming in 2014 was a much better fit than him in 2013 and it showed in his recruitment and his interest.That's not even mentioning WWW spending time with Dakari and his family for a weekend then him randomly committing to UK out of nowhere.

3) Theres a difference between recruiting a kid by sending feelers out and reaching out to him a little bit, and going all out. JB doesn't like to waste his time and resources on a kid who he doesn't think he has a legitimate shot at. And just because we're listed by recruiting services doesn't mean we're going all out. By that logic, when some recruiting services didn't even have us listed for Grant when he committed does that mean Grant just committed out of the blue to a school that wasn't recruiting him or showed no interest? You can't have it both ways. Obviously they would've taken Wiggins if he wanted to come here, but it doesnt meant they went all out to recruit a kid they knew we had little chance to land to begin with.

4) Not sure why you insist on being condescending throughout your post to people trying to help you. Yea we wanted Jordan. He kept pushing back when he would commit and went from possibly committing after Orange Madness to ending his recruitment in the spring. The staff couldn't wait around for the possibility of not getting Jordan. Meanwhile we had a kid who was a good prospect, a good friend and teammate of one your sacred "option A's" that we subsequently landed, and really wanted to come here. So we took Patterson a guy who is a good fit on top of the zone and can be a solid program player who will be around 4 years.

Nobody said we get all of our Option A recruits. No school does. We got Coleman over UK when he was their option A recruit. But I forgot that doesn't count. Nobody said Young wasn't good enough to come to SU. Nobody said BJ was better. Everyone pretty much knew he was going to UK for a long time before he committed. He was obviously giving signals to the staff that he was interested so they just went and did their due diligence and checked it out. They probably knew it wasn't going to be fruitful but they checked anyways. Should they have just not even bothered to go visit with him, that way there would be no confusion that we missed on an option A just because he's ranked higher than somebody? Then let me guess you're on here complaining the staff didn't go check. We're recruiting really well and it's only getting better. Just enjoy it instead of looking for something to complain about.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

MCW, thanks again, for reminding me of another SU 5 star recruit who couldn't get many minutes as a freshman. BTW, how did big man feshman McGrady do for Michign this season?

Wasn't having a 5 star recruit like MCW on the bench indicative of SU having a good team? He was/is a talent who had to pay his dues. Isn't that a great strategy if you can do it? You seemed to recognize it earlier in your own backhanded way.

Most teams can not get recruits the level of MCW, Grant, and Roberson to come to their schools with the distinct possibility of having to wait a year for their big minutes. It is why I consider this to be the golden age of SU recruiting. We used to get these kind of good recruits, but these good recruits did not used to have to wait.

As to the option A nonsense. I like to think there are tiers. For instance DC2 and Noel, or Vonleh and Roberson.

As for Newton he seems to be encroaching on the top tier now (KJ2 and the Isiahs). And if he can come in with the atitude of Grant and Roberson, willing to pay his dues, he may be a better fit for SU.

 

[Francis03]

Like I said, I'm not a recruiting guru so I want to learn. Let me get this straight:

1) We really wanted Vonleh but we weren't in the heavy mix with him, therefore he was no longer option A. After Vonleh was not option A, we were pushing for Roberson and J Law, but because J's recruitment had some nonsense Roberson therefore was option A, got it.

2) Dakari was our option A in 2014 but he reclassified to 2013, so we didn't want him anymore and we gave his scholarship to a walk on. Got it.

3) The board and the recruiting services thought for 2 years that we were recruiting Wiggins, but the staff really wasn't, so he doesn't count. Got it. And if he did want to commit to us we wouldn't take him because he wasn't option A.

4) R Jordan was option A and Patterson was option B, thanks, I had forgotten that. It is interesting to know that I know what I have forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.

I think I'm learning. I feel so much better knowing that SU gets all it's option A recruits. Let me give it a try: James Young from Rochester, was not really good enough for SU/not as good as BJ/more interested in some other school, therefore he wasn't really our option A. Bingo! How did I do?

Wow this is too funny. So let me get this straight, about ten other posters gave Sarge a "like" in the post that you mentioned. You decided to single me out and asked a question, in which I respectfully responded to with the best of my knowledge. For whatever reason you decided to respond with ignorance like I insulted you or something and list things that were wayyyy off from the points that I was making. Like I said I'm always up for a good discussion, but the things that I don't waste time on is feeding into ignorance and trolling. Whenever you want to respond to me as an adult then we can chat and I'll gladly answer any questions that you may have.

Thanks guys for correcting this guy on his foolishness and saving me the time.

Btw you asked how did you do?

 

[Francis03]

Wasn't having a 5 star recruit like MCW on the bench indicative of SU having a good team? He was/is a talent who had to pay his dues. Isn't that a great strategy if you can do it? You seemed to recognize it earlier in your own backhanded way.

Most teams can not get recruits the level of MCW, Grant, and Roberson to come to their schools with the distinct possibility of having to wait a year for their big minutes. It is why I consider this to be the golden age of SU recruiting. We used to get these kind of good recruits, but these good recruits did not used to have to wait.

As to the option A nonsense. I like to think there are tiers. For instance DC2 and Noel, or Vonleh and Roberson.

As for Newton he seems to be encroaching on the top tier now (KJ2 and the Isiahs). And if he can come in with the atitude of Grant and Roberson, willing to pay his dues, he may be a better fit for SU.

Great point Sarge, and I definitely do believe that's how the staff views their targets. They don't get into this option A or B and selector school stuff. They identify who they want and if the interest is mutual, then they'll get on their grind and recruit that player hard. If you're recruiting Roberson, Lawrence, BJ, and Vonleh at the same time and they all have offers. Then who is to say that this person is option A, B, C, etc when they're all on the same tier in the staff eyes.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Wasn't having a 5 star recruit like MCW on the bench indicative of SU having a good team? He was/is a talent who had to pay his dues. Isn't that a great strategy if you can do it? You seemed to recognize it earlier in your own backhanded way.

Most teams can not get recruits the level of MCW, Grant, and Roberson to come to their schools with the distinct possibility of having to wait a year for their big minutes. It is why I consider this to be the golden age of SU recruiting. We used to get these kind of good recruits, but these good recruits did not used to have to wait.

As to the option A nonsense. I like to think there are tiers. For instance DC2 and Noel, or Vonleh and Roberson.

As for Newton he seems to be encroaching on the top tier now (KJ2 and the Isiahs). And if he can come in with the atitude of Grant and Roberson, willing to pay his dues, he may be a better fit for SU.

The General had to sit for the Pearl, but I agree that our recruiting is continuing to improve. Within five years we will be as selective as the most selective, with the exception of the Kentucky glamour machine.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Great point Sarge, and I definitely do believe that's how the staff views their targets. They don't get into this option A or B and selector school stuff. They identify who they want and if the interest is mutual, then they'll get on their grind and recruit that player hard. If you're recruiting Roberson, Lawrence, BJ, and Vonleh at the same time and they all have offers. Then who is to say that this person is option A, B, C, etc when they're all on the same tier in the staff eyes.

Thank you. I have a couple of questions for you.

1. Do you think Newton has closed the gap and should now be included in the top tier of guards?
2. Do you think the staff feels as though Newton has done this?
3. Do you give any credence to geography. I mean, does the Philly thing mean anything to you or the staff? I used to think the location thing was just coincidence, but I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[Francis03]

You did terrible and didn't get it straight so try again. I'll try and help...

1) As Francis said the staff was watching Vonleh quite a bit then seemed to have backed off. Vonleh was in the 2014 class at the time and is the same position as McCullough. McCullough apparently was the staffs "option A" as you like to call it and we landed him. Vonleh then reclassifies to 2013. The staff tries to get back in and maybe see if they can get back in the mix, which all signs show that they were, but then Vonleh decides to go to the same school as his brother. To make it sound like Lawrence was the head and shoulders preference over Roberson isn't accurate. If you look at anything other than an ESPN rankings list you would see that Roberson is every bit the prospect Lawrence is if not better. Lawrence proved to be high maintenance, staff didn't want to deal with it so they stopped recruiting him. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about that. We then focused on and got a guy who was a top 30 player and was dominant against good competition throughout his senior year. Not to mention he fits our system almost perfectly. Got it?

2) Dakari was a strong possibility while he was still a 2014 kid. The extra year he wouldve spent in high school increased the chances of DC or Rak not being here and also BMK is no doubt gone. He reclassifies and now all of a sudden instead of us offering a roster with only one other proven center or big on it, we have one of 3 guys who just anchored the middle for a Final Four run. The situation changes. It's not just about offering the top 15 guys in every class and if we dont get them we had a bad recruiting year. It's about building a team and finding guys who fit roles. Would Dakari have been a great talent to bring in this year? Of course. But him coming in 2014 was a much better fit than him in 2013 and it showed in his recruitment and his interest.That's not even mentioning WWW spending time with Dakari and his family for a weekend then him randomly committing to UK out of nowhere.

3) Theres a difference between recruiting a kid by sending feelers out and reaching out to him a little bit, and going all out. JB doesn't like to waste his time and resources on a kid who he doesn't think he has a legitimate shot at. And just because we're listed by recruiting services doesn't mean we're going all out. By that logic, when some recruiting services didn't even have us listed for Grant when he committed does that mean Grant just committed out of the blue to a school that wasn't recruiting him or showed no interest? You can't have it both ways. Obviously they would've taken Wiggins if he wanted to come here, but it doesnt meant they went all out to recruit a kid they knew we had little chance to land to begin with.

4) Not sure why you insist on being condescending throughout your post to people trying to help you. Yea we wanted Jordan. He kept pushing back when he would commit and went from possibly committing after Orange Madness to ending his recruitment in the spring. The staff couldn't wait around for the possibility of not getting Jordan. Meanwhile we had a kid who was a good prospect, a good friend and teammate of one your sacred "option A's" that we subsequently landed, and really wanted to come here. So we took Patterson a guy who is a good fit on top of the zone and can be a solid program player who will be around 4 years.

Nobody said we get all of our Option A recruits. No school does. We got Coleman over UK when he was their option A recruit. But I forgot that doesn't count. Nobody said Young wasn't good enough to come to SU. Nobody said BJ was better. Everyone pretty much knew he was going to UK for a long time before he committed. He was obviously giving signals to the staff that he was interested so they just went and did their due diligence and checked it out. They probably knew it wasn't going to be fruitful but they checked anyways. Should they have just not even bothered to go visit with him, that way there would be no confusion that we missed on an option A just because he's ranked higher than somebody? Then let me guess you're on here complaining the staff didn't go check. We're recruiting really well and it's only getting better. Just enjoy it instead of looking for something to complain about.

Also as you know Sully, teams around the country sometimes have to deal with shady coaches, handlers, and paranoid parents that make them lose interest in a recruit that they may have been pursuing real heavy. Remember last spring when Vonleh said he stopped hearing from the staff for a long time. Obviously something happened during the process that made them lose interest and backed off. By the time he reclassified we already had Roberson, BJ, McCullough(all option B's right) committed. So we could make the case that Vonleh would have been more of an luxury if he had joined, because nobody was losing any sleep when he committed to Indiana.

 

[Oakland]

You did terrible. I don't see anywhere in the posts in this thread that say we got all of our option "A" guys. Wake up, your alarm is going off!! In the end, it doesn't matter if you get "A" guy or "B" guy. Our "A" guys and "B" guys are all rated in the top 100; it is what the staff does with them that counts. Too many superstars on one team can equal disaster. Case in point, look at Kentucky last year. I will take 1 or 2 "A" guys and a bunch of "B" guys with this staff any day. At least they had a "B" plan and I think you will see that this years recruits all have solid careers at SU and they will see a National Championship in their time at SU.

Read again. In fact this little tangent is all about A vs B, see Sarg's post of Dec 5. Apparently, most of the posters in this sub-thread just can't admit that SU has ended up with some option Bs and Cs. This same phenomenon is often attributed to the Rutgers football board.

 

[Oakland]

Great point Sarge, and I definitely do believe that's how the staff views their targets. They don't get into this option A or B and selector school stuff. They identify who they want and if the interest is mutual, then they'll get on their grind and recruit that player hard. If you're recruiting Roberson, Lawrence, BJ, and Vonleh at the same time and they all have offers. Then who is to say that this person is option A, B, C, etc when they're all on the same tier in the staff eyes.

I thought the concept was clear: option A is the guy you would take first for any position you have open.

 

[Oakland]

Wasn't having a 5 star recruit like MCW on the bench indicative of SU having a good team? He was/is a talent who had to pay his dues. Isn't that a great strategy if you can do it? You seemed to recognize it earlier in your own backhanded way.

Most teams can not get recruits the level of MCW, Grant, and Roberson to come to their schools with the distinct possibility of having to wait a year for their big minutes. It is why I consider this to be the golden age of SU recruiting. We used to get these kind of good recruits, but these good recruits did not used to have to wait.

As to the option A nonsense. I like to think there are tiers. For instance DC2 and Noel, or Vonleh and Roberson.

As for Newton he seems to be encroaching on the top tier now (KJ2 and the Isiahs). And if he can come in with the atitude of Grant and Roberson, willing to pay his dues, he may be a better fit for SU.

I think the reason MCW didn't get many minutes in the BEC, BET, and NCAA his frosh year, was due to his extremely poor shooting in the OOC (IIRC something like 22% for 3pt, 32% for 2pt, and 50% for FTs). It wasn't about him playing his dues. JB would have loved MCW to be better than Scoop or BT - so despite his stellar 3:1 A:T ratio, he didn't play much because he couldn't hit the board side of the barn, figuratively speaking.

BTW, I'm quite pleased with SU's recruiting.

 

[jordoo]

Is this arguement still going?

OK lets make it simple. We are recruiting at an all time high yest are still behind UK, and a couple of others. Moving on now happy people on the recruiting board.

 

[cusetown1]

Wow this is too funny. So let me get this straight, about ten other posters gave Sarge a "like" in the post that you mentioned. You decided to single me out and asked a question, in which I respectfully responded to with the best of my knowledge. For whatever reason you decided to respond with ignorance like I insulted you or something and list things that were wayyyy off from the points that I was making. Like I said I'm always up for a good discussion, but the things that I don't waste time on is feeding into ignorance and trolling. Whenever you want to respond to me as an adult then we can chat and I'll gladly answer any questions that you may have.

Thanks guys for correcting this guy on his foolishness and saving me the time.

Btw you asked how did you do?
View attachment 4104

Ownedland

 

[Orangezoo]

I am thinking that a few pages ago a Snickers bar would have saved a lot trouble... anyone can get a little Joe Pesci when their hungry - even when chatting recruiting news with some of the folks like Francis so kind to take the time... Francis you just might need to have some handy for next time.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Read again. In fact this little tangent is all about A vs B, see Sarg's post of Dec 5. Apparently, most of the posters in this sub-thread just can't admit that SU has ended up with some option Bs and Cs. This same phenomenon is often attributed to the Rutgers football board.

My Dec 5th post? What are you cyber-stalking me?

Your reference to "option Bs" and " notch below the elite" seems to be dissing our recruiting and our current recruits. I have been psyched about what I see as an increase in the level of recruiting. Which, JB coincidently seems to be cashing in on at a 30 wins per season clip.

You wanted one big time recruit a year. Well, what about Fab, Rak/MCW, DC2/(Grant), (Ennis/Roberson), McCollough. You've been getting it!

Any reference to Rutgers football on this board is uncalled for.

 

[Orangezoo]

Oakland - it happens to the best of us - and no we are not the Rutgers Board - here you go :

 

[Francis03]

Thank you. I have a couple of questions for you.

1. Do you think Newton has closed the gap and should now be included in the top tier of guards?
2. Do you think the staff feels as though Newton has done this?
3. Do you give any credence to geography. I mean, does the Philly thing mean anything to you or the staff? I used to think the location thing was just coincidence, but I'm not so sure anymore.

1.Newton has been having his way against the top guards in the nation in all of these All American Camps that have taken place over the last month. So I don't see why he wouldn't be included on that top tier of guards imho.
2.I think the staff is waiting to see him in person before making a big push. Coaches are able to hit the road this Wednesday, so we should hear some buzz in that department soon.
3.Philly is big for us, because the ball players from there call SU Philly North. At the end of the day it doesn't give us a guaranteed advantage to land a kid from there but it most definitely helps and increases our chances to land the recruit, due to the familiarity with the former SU players from there and the strong connections that we have built there for over 10 years now.

 

[Francis03]

I am thinking that a few pages ago a Snickers bar would have saved a lot trouble... anyone can get a little Joe Pesci when their hungry - even when chatting recruiting news with some of the folks like Francis so kind to take the time... Francis you just might need to have some handy for next time.

What I find hilarious OZ, is that I didn't even diss this guy and actually took the time to give him answers to questions that he asked me. All of a sudden he responds back to me and others like he's mad because his girlfriend dumped him or something and wants to vent his frustration on syracusefan.com.

 

[AWMKY]

Meyer recruiting notes on Newton today:

JaQuan Newton
One of the toughest point guards to control off the dribble in the 2014 class, Newton listed USC, Minnesota, Villanova, Oregon, Syracuse, Temple and MIami as his top schools. He also noted that Villanova is recruiting him the hardest.
As for the tweets and talk of he and Isaiah Whitehead playing together in college, Newton didn't try to down play it.
"We are still thinking about going to the same school," Newton said. "Our games really compliment each other."
If the two do indeed go to the same school, Minnesota and Syracuse are the top candidates.

 

[Orangezoo]

What I find hilarious OZ, is that I didn't even diss this guy and actually took the time to give him answers to questions that he asked me. All of a sudden he responds back to me others like he's mad because his girlfriend dumped him or something and wants to vent his frustration on syracusefan.com.

It really is puzzling..and its like that with everything on the off-topic (aka politics) board. A question is raised, an answer is provided and the person who provided the answer is jumped on ( usually because the OP is the polar opposite politically). It really falls on the obsession some have with thinking they have to be right and every conversation end in them feeling as though they won something. Therefore the reason I love Moqui's new avatar - its so true. Maybe we need a snickers bar to calm the divas and a chocolate chip cookie for the know it alls who are never wrong:blah:

 

[cusetown1]

It really is puzzling..and its like that with everything on the off-topic (aka politics) board. A question is raised, an answer is provided and the person who provided the answer is jumped on ( usually because the OP is the polar opposite politically). It really falls on the obsession some have with thinking they have to be right and every conversation end in them feeling as though they won something. Therefore the reason I love Moqui's new avatar - its so true. Maybe we need a snickers bar to calm the divas and a chocolate chip cookie for the know it alls who are never wrong:blah:

Maybe we should start calling ownedland chicken little.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

View attachment 4109

You know what's even better than a Snickers? One of those ice cream Snickers.

That's heaven in a freezer, let me tell you.