Jason Collins: first openly gay athlete in US Sports history

[CuseFaninVT]

Priests would make lousy husbands. I see the guys at our church, they literally go from 6AM to well after 9PM six days a week. The calling is a lot more involved than knocking out a mass or two on Sundays.

Father Tim Kavanagh seems to be pretty good at both.

Anyone who knows that reference will get teed up by me.

 

[Millhouse]

The Celtics traded him to the Wizards earlier in the year.

ah. the wizards are that much more likely to want to avoid the hassle, being in DC

 

[Millhouse]

Priests would make lousy husbands. I see the guys at our church, they literally go from 6AM to well after 9PM six days a week. The calling is a lot more involved than knocking out a mass or two on Sundays.

if there were more of them, the days wouldn't be so long.

besides, there are married priests already (ones that converted to catholicism).

 

[ImperialOrange]

Whatttt? Im perfect.

What's that like?!

 

[edowd26]

I see, so because a Christian can disagree with the gay and lesbian community that automatically equals bigotry. Awesome assumption. So if I have republican political views and you have democratic, you are a bigot because you disagree and are "judging" my political views. Great premise.

If he is trying to prevent you from being a republican... Then yes.

 

[Eric15]

I see, so because a Christian can disagree with the gay and lesbian community that automatically equals bigotry. Awesome assumption. So if I have republican political views and you have democratic, you are a bigot because you disagree and are "judging" my political views. Great premise.

You CHOOSE your political ideology.
You are BORN with your sexual orientation.

Do you not have a single family member, friend, co-worker, neighbor, acquaintance who is gay? Just have a conversation with them, and ask them if they chose to be gay, or if it's their natural biological identity that they knew from a young age.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Someone should really move this to the OT board. I think the sports angle has been completely exhausted here.

It was always going to end up there but there is some good convo going at least

 

[Bayside44]

if there were more of them, the days wouldn't be so long.

My church has about 4,000 families in it, how many do you need to make it a shiftwork job?

Someone is always sick, having a baby, needs a confession, has to talk, is dying, wants you over for dinner, go on a retreat, open the church, close the church, do a 40 hours thing, go to the school,have a retreat, doing RCIA, etc, etc...hard to make Junior's soccer's games and serve the flock.

 

[edowd26]

What's that like?!

Tough... I am constantly disappointed by others.

 

[CusefanATL]

Kerry Rhodes is rumored to be one of them. There were vacation photos of he and a mysterious man looking very happy together not long ago, and I believe the "mystery guy" actually came right out and confirmed it was a romantic getaway. Good for him, if so. No reason to hide it.

And very encouraged by Jason Collins coming out. Hopefully it'll trigger a tidal wave of acceptance.

fwiw, he vehemently denied it. And it wasnt a mystery guy - it was his assistant. If you read his quotes, he clearly has a screw loose. At 1 point he referenced "helping the bit*hes out" by 'outing' rhodes.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

You CHOOSE your political ideology.
You are BORN with your sexual orientation.

Do you not have a single family member, friend, co-worker, neighbor, acquaintance who is gay? Just have a conversation with them, and ask them if they chose to be gay, or if it's their natural biological identity that they knew from a young age.

I simply don't understand how anyone can think being gay is a choice. Who would choose that for themselves? Being a second class citizen seems like a great idea to me (or just being treated like one).

Yes, I have a family member who is gay. She's one of the very best humans I know. Anyone who thinks they are better than her just because of their sexual orientation is just fooling themselves.

 

[sabach]

So if I'm following you, you're saying that if I come across a person eating shrimp cocktail, or a pulled pork sandwich, or has clearly shaved that morning, that I should not hate or abuse them, but instead I should simply respectfully point out that what they are doing is a Biblical sin? Is that right?

If you were an Orthodox Jew you might be inclined to point that out. The New Testament however is very clear that the Old Testament dietary laws do not apply to the New Covenant. One can read the book of Acts to see the first century church having this very debate within itself and coming to the conclusion that Gentiles did not have to become Jews first in order to become Christians.

 

[SoBeCuse]

He certainly can be for others who want to come out. Hero is a subjective term. My father is my hero, is he yours? Bin laden is a hero to some. Brando nor anyone else should be telling the populace who is and is not a hero.

Hero is subjective for sure and a strong word. I just think it gets misused generally and applied to mundane contexts often. Not defending Brando at all. His opinion and feelings are coming out too strongly and rather poorly.

 

[sabach]

I see, so because a Christian can disagree with the gay and lesbian community that automatically equals bigotry. Awesome assumption. So if I have republican political views and you have democratic, you are a bigot because you disagree and are "judging" my political views. Great premise.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my post before. King Otis infers that those who believe that homosexual acts are sinful are bigots, period. This is regardless of the fact that people, like me, who believe that also believe that gays should have the right to legally marry and adopt and should not be discriminated in work or other benefits.

 

[TinyManInside]

I'm amazed at the number of non-christians who use scripture (don't judge lest you be judged) to judge Christian ideology.

I find that a lot of non-christians spend more time reading the bible than actual christians.

 

[SWC75]

Re: Collins

Hopefully his coming out will produce an "I am Spartacus" moment where other athletes still competing come out and people will realize they've been rooting for or competing with and against gays for years and it didn't hurt them to do so. He's doubtless not the first athlete to be known to his teammates and coaches to be gay, (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Burke ) . The publicity he's getting with the SI cover story suggests there may be more than just his decision to come out behind this. He's not a great player but a respected one with current and former teammates sprinkled around the league. He's not Jackie Robinson who has never showered with the guys before. I recall that Rosa Parks was not the first woman who wanted to sue the Montgomery bus company for being forced to sit in the back (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin ) Claudette Colvin was pregnant at age 15, (the father was white), and was considered a risk as a role model so the NAACP backed the more "respectable" Rosa Parks, (I'm not saying Ms. Park wasn't actually respectable, just referring to the standards used at the time). There may have been a decision that Collins, having played in the league for 14 season,was a better "ice breaker" than somebody just coming out of college at this time. Maybe he was encouraged to come forward at this point for that reason. So it could be a "publicity stunt" but not necessarily in a bad way.

Re: Brando

I remember him doing Sports Center years ago during the Division 2/3 playoffs and making fun on the air of the names of the schools. I knew he was a jerk then. Have you ever listened to his current show? It's like a bunch of frat boys with a tape recorder.

Re: Broussard

I agree that he has a right to his religious views and to express them and should not lose his job over that, any more than Collins should over coming out. But I wonder if Broussard feels as strongly about adultery and pre-martial sex as her does about homosexuality and if he has ever inveighed against them on the air before. What would the NBA be like if we eliminated everybody who by his definition, is on their way to Hell when their career here is over? What would religion be like if everyone who failed to follow it's rules was excommunicated? The churches could be a hole lot smaller than they are.

 

[JDubbin]

You CHOOSE your political ideology.
You are BORN with your sexual orientation.

Do you not have a single family member, friend, co-worker, neighbor, acquaintance who is gay? Just have a conversation with them, and ask them if they chose to be gay, or if it's their natural biological identity that they knew from a young age.

There is no relevance if your sexual orientation is something you are born with or a choice, it's a valid argument to say that both are true for gay and lesbian individuals. The point is this, if I am born with a natural propensity towards violence, it does not make it okay for me to punch you in the face because it's my natural lean. If I have a born desire to sleep around, it does not make it okay for me to cheat on my wife "because I was born that way." A Bilical world view is not driven by "how we were born," if so, then really anything and everything goes, wouldn't it? My natural desire to procreate does not validate, from a biblical viewpoint, sex before marriage.

 

[ImperialOrange]

So if I'm following you, you're saying that if I come across a person eating shrimp cocktail, or a pulled pork sandwich, or has clearly shaved that morning, that I should not hate or abuse them, but instead I should simply respectfully point out that what they are doing is a Biblical sin? Is that right?

Depends if you're a Christian or not. If you're a Christian you shouldn't respectfully point out anything because you yourself aren't without sin. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", "judge not, lest you be judged", etc, etc.

If you're not a Christian, suppose you have lisence to do whatever you see fit which would likely be pointing out hypocricies to those that have the "holier that thou" mindset.

 

[edowd26]

There is no relevance if your sexual orientation is something you are born with or a choice, it's a valid argument to say that both are true for gay and lesbian individuals. The point is this, if I am born with a natural propensity towards violence, it does not make it okay for me to punch you in the face because it's my natural lean. If I have a born desire to sleep around, it does not make it okay for me to cheat on my wife "because I was born that way." A Bilical world view is not driven by "how we were born," if so, then really anything and everything goes, wouldn't it? My natural desire to procreate does not validate, from a biblical viewpoint, sex before marriage.

You waited to get married?

 

[SWC75]

How will we reproduce ? How will the world population grow ?

The same way it always has.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

This is exactly what I was talking about in my post before. King Otis infers that those who believe that homosexual acts are sinful are bigots, period. This is regardless of the fact that people, like me, who believe that also believe that gays should have the right to legally marry and adopt and should not be discriminated in work or other benefits.

First off, it's not you, it's the talking heads on the tube that we speak out against.

Go to http://www.colbertnation.com/ and watch the video with Stephen in the tub.

At about the 50 second mark it gets to what we are complaining about.

"Yes, they are calling us hateful names like bigot and homophobe, when we're just helpfully pointing out that they are deviant abominations who are going to hell."

 

[Millhouse]

My church has about 4,000 families in it, how many do you need to make it a shiftwork job?

Someone is always sick, having a baby, needs a confession, has to talk, is dying, wants you over for dinner, go on a retreat, open the church, close the church, do a 40 hours thing, go to the school,have a retreat, doing RCIA, etc, etc...hard to make Junior's soccer's games and serve the flock.

however many you have, multiply it by 3.

hospitals are very busy places too. somehow they manage to get by with a married workforce.

priests are very busy because there aren't enough of them

 

[rychi32]

I find that a lot of non-christians spend more time reading the bible than actual christians.

That's unfortunate if true. I doubt it is.

 

[Todd Gack]

There is no relevance if your sexual orientation is something you are born with or a choice, it's a valid argument to say that both are true for gay and lesbian individuals. The point is this, if I am born with a natural propensity towards violence, it does not make it okay for me to punch you in the face because it's my natural lean. If I have a born desire to sleep around, it does not make it okay for me to cheat on my wife "because I was born that way." A Bilical world view is not driven by "how we were born," if so, then really anything and everything goes, wouldn't it? My natural desire to procreate does not validate, from a biblical viewpoint, sex before marriage.

The problem with the violence and philandering comparisons are that others are hurt by your actions. Jason Collins being gay has no impact on your life. And religion has lost the sex before marriage argument.

 

[Bayside44]

however many you have, multiply it by 3.

hospitals are very busy places too. somehow they manage to get by with a married workforce.

priests are very busy because there aren't enough of them

Hospitals pay better, they're also shift work.